Topic: Wanted: Mining pool to take out alt block chains - page 3. (Read 4955 times)
Nor is it welcome under mining. Take your attack crap to the cesspool where it belongs.
Make it profitable. Pay for the work in BTC proceeds and use the strategy I suggested above. If we can show that attacks are profitable, then no one will start up these chains again.
The point should not be to double-spend or roll back txns. That is idiotic. It will not yield a positive return on investment.
Instead, you should merely seize all block reward from miners, enforce some tolerable fees on sends, and sell all altcoin revenue for BTC immediately. Kill the coins through taxation and dumping cheap coins on the market, not through vandalism.
People will either
1) weather the storm and accept a total loss (since the value of their holdings will be ~0 once the taxation is over)
2) Accept paying you part of their balance in order to get some money out. Cha-ching!
To make this work better, I would suggest gradually increasing mandatory fees over time. This should provoke a run for the exit. You don't want altcoin value to collapse too quickly. That is not profitable.
The point should not be to double-spend or roll back txns. That is idiotic. It will not yield a positive return on investment.
Instead, you should merely seize all block reward from miners, enforce some tolerable fees on sends, and sell all altcoin revenue for BTC immediately. Kill the coins through taxation and dumping cheap coins on the market, not through vandalism.
People will either
1) weather the storm and accept a total loss (since the value of their holdings will be ~0 once the taxation is over)
2) Accept paying you part of their balance in order to get some money out. Cha-ching!
To make this work better, I would suggest gradually increasing mandatory fees over time. This should provoke a run for the exit. You don't want altcoin value to collapse too quickly. That is not profitable.
Not sure how it would work, but perhaps it mines BTC, then switches over as the owner identifies assailable targets. Ideas welcome.
Why don't you start by making that pool yourself? If people are interested in a bloodbath between chains, they'll join you if work is being done.
I'm looking forward to see the next Bloodcoin.
My experience= 100% unacceptably long block times far in excess of the alleged "average" with LTC vs 50% at worst slower times with BTC. LTC=the house always wins. BTC=far more than a snowball's chance in hell.
/unwatch
/unwatch
Another hint that you dont know how these currencies work. Yesterday night i put btc to mtgox and had to wait 1 hour and 10 minutes for 1! block/confirmation. You probably dont know that the 10minutes and 2.5minutes only are the average time between 2 blocks created. Mining is more gambling than a hardcoded time when a new block is created.
Hahahahahaha. This thread is hilarious!
Don't you guys see? Successful troll is successful. My guess is that annette786 is just LukeJr's sock.
Just to aggravate the flamewar...
TheButterZone, your argument is completely invalid. Just because one Litecoin transaction you had didn't confirm before a Bitcoin one did, doesn't mean it's always or mostly that way.
And remember when Bitcoin was in its infancy? Just because there aren't many places that accept it, doesn't make it a bad idea.
Don't you guys see? Successful troll is successful. My guess is that annette786 is just LukeJr's sock.
Just to aggravate the flamewar...
TheButterZone, your argument is completely invalid. Just because one Litecoin transaction you had didn't confirm before a Bitcoin one did, doesn't mean it's always or mostly that way.
And remember when Bitcoin was in its infancy? Just because there aren't many places that accept it, doesn't make it a bad idea.
Notice "transactionS". Wasn't just one ridiculously long confirm. Add that to the people I was dealing with saying that they never got fast confirms when it counted either, and I have to wonder if anyone but miners are getting quick confirms, as consistently shouted from the rooftops.
There can be only one.
The one cryptocoin to rule them all.
Bitcoin.
The statistical probability of a >10 minute block on Litecoin is much less than the probability of such a block on Bitcoin. Just take a look at http://explorer.litecoin.net/chain/Litecoin. And yes, I am getting quick confirmations in my Litecoin wallet.
If you have a slow network connection or are not connected to any peers then I can see how your client will not show any confirmations. But in reality, the transaction is still confirmed whether your client shows it or not.
Wasn't using a client to watch for confirms; hitting refresh every minute on the address's page at http://explorer.litecoin.net/ and it did NOT show a confirmation before at least 7 minutes 100% of the time. So much for "Litecoin gets one block or confirmation in 2.5 minute in average", SebastianJu. I'd have better "luck" flipping a bloody coin.
It's a simple question, really:
Do you mine LTC*? y/n
*and therefore defend it to the death, which Bitcoin doesn't require
TheButterZone... your argument with 1! confirmation only shows that you dont understand how block creation works. Of course you can make a btc transaction and nearly instantly you get one confirmation for it. Thats random luck. But bitcoin only gets one confirmation or block created in 10 minutes in average. Litecoin gets one block or confirmation in 2.5 minute in average. So claiming that you had luck with btc-transactions because right after your transaction a block was found and your transactions was included isnt an argument because its simply luck.
It remains that you have to wait in average 1 hour to get 6 confirmations in bitcoin. Litecoin would need 15 minutes for the same in average.
This waiting time is annoying when using mtgox. I wonder when they will change it. There is nearly no higher security to wait for 6 confirmations. For me thats the biggest disadvantage of bitcoin to wait so long for a transaction. I mean when youre awake 14 hours a day doing arbitrage with mtgox you can do a couple of trades daily only. The internet is fast but its currency lame. Too bad. So i think litecoin is addressing this problem even though its still not really fast and not so big like bitcoin is till now.
It remains that you have to wait in average 1 hour to get 6 confirmations in bitcoin. Litecoin would need 15 minutes for the same in average.
This waiting time is annoying when using mtgox. I wonder when they will change it. There is nearly no higher security to wait for 6 confirmations. For me thats the biggest disadvantage of bitcoin to wait so long for a transaction. I mean when youre awake 14 hours a day doing arbitrage with mtgox you can do a couple of trades daily only. The internet is fast but its currency lame. Too bad. So i think litecoin is addressing this problem even though its still not really fast and not so big like bitcoin is till now.
And remember when Bitcoin was in its infancy? Just because there aren't many places that accept it, doesn't make it a bad idea.
I agree completely with this. The fact that the alt coins are mindless clones makes them a bad idea.
PPCoin is the only exception. Of course, you cant 51% it so PPCoin is off-topic.
Hahahahahaha. This thread is hilarious!
Don't you guys see? Successful troll is successful. My guess is that annette786 is just LukeJr's sock.
Just to aggravate the flamewar...
TheButterZone, your argument is completely invalid. Just because one Litecoin transaction you had didn't confirm before a Bitcoin one did, doesn't mean it's always or mostly that way.
And remember when Bitcoin was in its infancy? Just because there aren't many places that accept it, doesn't make it a bad idea.
Don't you guys see? Successful troll is successful. My guess is that annette786 is just LukeJr's sock.
Just to aggravate the flamewar...
TheButterZone, your argument is completely invalid. Just because one Litecoin transaction you had didn't confirm before a Bitcoin one did, doesn't mean it's always or mostly that way.
And remember when Bitcoin was in its infancy? Just because there aren't many places that accept it, doesn't make it a bad idea.
Notice "transactionS". Wasn't just one ridiculously long confirm. Add that to the people I was dealing with saying that they never got fast confirms when it counted either, and I have to wonder if anyone but miners are getting quick confirms, as consistently shouted from the rooftops.
There can be only one.
The one cryptocoin to rule them all.
Bitcoin.
The statistical probability of a >10 minute block on Litecoin is much less than the probability of such a block on Bitcoin. Just take a look at http://explorer.litecoin.net/chain/Litecoin. And yes, I am getting quick confirmations in my Litecoin wallet.
If you have a slow network connection or are not connected to any peers then I can see how your client will not show any confirmations. But in reality, the transaction is still confirmed whether your client shows it or not.
Another block chain which have 50 coin/block reward forever and see if that helps to stablize the dramatic price swing
I propose that attack work as follows.
1) Add only to the normal chain.
2) Reject all blocks from competing miners.
3) Impose 5% fees on all txns. If 5% of inputs are not offered up a fee. Don't let that the cheapskate put that txn in a block.
4) Sell all proceeds on the exchange immediately.
5) Continue until exchange rate is near 0. Now stop.
6) Rinse and repeat if the exchange rate picks up again.
7) If this works properly. It will trigger a run to the exchange. The attackers will earn 5% of whatever money can be gotten out.
Do not conduct any double-spends. The exchanges must be allowed to operate as normal to ensure ROI for the attackers.
If someone tries to close the exchanges. We should open our own.
1) Add only to the normal chain.
2) Reject all blocks from competing miners.
3) Impose 5% fees on all txns. If 5% of inputs are not offered up a fee. Don't let that the cheapskate put that txn in a block.
4) Sell all proceeds on the exchange immediately.
5) Continue until exchange rate is near 0. Now stop.
6) Rinse and repeat if the exchange rate picks up again.
7) If this works properly. It will trigger a run to the exchange. The attackers will earn 5% of whatever money can be gotten out.
Do not conduct any double-spends. The exchanges must be allowed to operate as normal to ensure ROI for the attackers.If someone tries to close the exchanges. We should open our own.
Alt coins are a great testing field, where if a nice feature is developed and tested successfully it can later be merged into Bitcoin making it stronger.
I support alt coins.
I support alt coins.
That attitude has probably turned more capital away from bitcoin than bitcoin's current market cap, maybe several times its market cap.
For quite a while bitcoin was growing in value even despite such atrocious attitude, and the very fact it was growing in value faster than most alternatives made it reasonable and practical to use bitcoin as collateral against which to borrow something that wasn't appreciating so fast to use as spending-money (even to buy more bitcoins as more collateral to borrow more spending cash and so on).
Since bitcoin was overtaken by various alternatives it began to maybe make sense to use the even faster appreciating alternatives as collateral but still there are some that are not appreciating as fast as bitcoin so still bitcoin is maybe not the best one to borrow as spending cash.
Having alternatives is good. Maybe some day some of them will become relatively stable against certain brands of fiat even so that one could even begin to hedge against various fiats with them, though attempts so far to accomplish that failed due to their constantly rising above the value of the fiat, it simply became too expensive to try to keep suppressing them back down toward parity with fiat.
-MarkM-
For quite a while bitcoin was growing in value even despite such atrocious attitude, and the very fact it was growing in value faster than most alternatives made it reasonable and practical to use bitcoin as collateral against which to borrow something that wasn't appreciating so fast to use as spending-money (even to buy more bitcoins as more collateral to borrow more spending cash and so on).
Since bitcoin was overtaken by various alternatives it began to maybe make sense to use the even faster appreciating alternatives as collateral but still there are some that are not appreciating as fast as bitcoin so still bitcoin is maybe not the best one to borrow as spending cash.
Having alternatives is good. Maybe some day some of them will become relatively stable against certain brands of fiat even so that one could even begin to hedge against various fiats with them, though attempts so far to accomplish that failed due to their constantly rising above the value of the fiat, it simply became too expensive to try to keep suppressing them back down toward parity with fiat.
-MarkM-
Hahahahahaha. This thread is hilarious!
Don't you guys see? Successful troll is successful. My guess is that annette786 is just LukeJr's sock.
Just to aggravate the flamewar...
TheButterZone, your argument is completely invalid. Just because one Litecoin transaction you had didn't confirm before a Bitcoin one did, doesn't mean it's always or mostly that way.
And remember when Bitcoin was in its infancy? Just because there aren't many places that accept it, doesn't make it a bad idea.
Don't you guys see? Successful troll is successful. My guess is that annette786 is just LukeJr's sock.
Just to aggravate the flamewar...
TheButterZone, your argument is completely invalid. Just because one Litecoin transaction you had didn't confirm before a Bitcoin one did, doesn't mean it's always or mostly that way.
And remember when Bitcoin was in its infancy? Just because there aren't many places that accept it, doesn't make it a bad idea.
Gladamas-- you nematode, are you saying Litcoin is anything near as relevant as bitcoin? Litecoin is an unimaginative clone coveted by the genetically inept. It detracts. It should be culled.
Hahahahahaha. This thread is hilarious!
Don't you guys see? Successful troll is successful. My guess is that annette786 is just LukeJr's sock.
Just to aggravate the flamewar...
TheButterZone, your argument is completely invalid. Just because one Litecoin transaction you had didn't confirm before a Bitcoin one did, doesn't mean it's always or mostly that way.
And remember when Bitcoin was in its infancy? Just because there aren't many places that accept it, doesn't make it a bad idea.
Don't you guys see? Successful troll is successful. My guess is that annette786 is just LukeJr's sock.
Just to aggravate the flamewar...
TheButterZone, your argument is completely invalid. Just because one Litecoin transaction you had didn't confirm before a Bitcoin one did, doesn't mean it's always or mostly that way.
And remember when Bitcoin was in its infancy? Just because there aren't many places that accept it, doesn't make it a bad idea.
Notice "transactionS". Wasn't just one ridiculously long confirm. Add that to the people I was dealing with saying that they never got fast confirms when it counted either, and I have to wonder if anyone but miners are getting quick confirms, as consistently shouted from the rooftops.
There can be only one.
The one cryptocoin to rule them all.
Bitcoin.
Hahahahahaha. This thread is hilarious!
Don't you guys see? Successful troll is successful. My guess is that annette786 is just LukeJr's sock.
Just to aggravate the flamewar...
TheButterZone, your argument is completely invalid. Just because one Litecoin transaction you had didn't confirm before a Bitcoin one did, doesn't mean it's always or mostly that way.
And remember when Bitcoin was in its infancy? Just because there aren't many places that accept it, doesn't make it a bad idea.
Don't you guys see? Successful troll is successful. My guess is that annette786 is just LukeJr's sock.
Just to aggravate the flamewar...
TheButterZone, your argument is completely invalid. Just because one Litecoin transaction you had didn't confirm before a Bitcoin one did, doesn't mean it's always or mostly that way.
And remember when Bitcoin was in its infancy? Just because there aren't many places that accept it, doesn't make it a bad idea.
NONE of my LTC transactions reached 1 confirm in a shorter period of time than my shortest BTC 1 confirm, let alone almost all of my BTC 1 confirms.
They're a useless, waste of time, distraction. Invest in infrastructure for BTC. Don't fill the Hindenburg with hydrogen.
They're a useless, waste of time, distraction. Invest in infrastructure for BTC. Don't fill the Hindenburg with hydrogen.
Youre right... i dont know a place where one could pay with litecoins. But bitcoin isnt much better even now after all that time. I would prefer to use litecoins because of their faster transactions especially when making arbitrage with mtgox or similar. Waiting one hour until the btc are there is a pain and useless. Litecoins would be faster. So they have an advantage.
So its correct. Litecoins cant be used for much. Bitcoins is a bit better now but you cant buy way way more things than you can buy with it yet. So its a general problem. Bitcoin only has the advantage of time.
Most altcoins never will lift off because they simply arent needed. Litecoins seems to be something other because the speed is a unique feature.
So its correct. Litecoins cant be used for much. Bitcoins is a bit better now but you cant buy way way more things than you can buy with it yet. So its a general problem. Bitcoin only has the advantage of time.
Most altcoins never will lift off because they simply arent needed. Litecoins seems to be something other because the speed is a unique feature.
TheButterZone... what are you speaking about? Mining Litecoins with gpu is more profitable than mining bitcoins since months. So what are you speaking about worthless coins?
Ok, since my previous post apparently wasn't clear enough... Let's say there is a new element discovered that is way easier to mine than gold, but it has no practical application or barter value, unlike most commodities. The miners sell it to people who then sell/trade it to other people and so on, and barely break even on the exchange, if not lose money. Miners must be laughing their asses off at LTC end-users. It's like some crazy world where merely possessing other peoples' feces means you're wealthy.
There is great opportunity for Litecoin as well as other alt coins. As the value of Bitcoin goes up it only makes sense that fractions of it's wealth would be passed around by other means. They only compliment one another.
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