War save economy here is how | Bitcointalksearch.org

el kaka22

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Quote from: Mometaskers on March 06, 2022, 01:51:29 PM

I'm a bit confused where OP is leading here but I don't think war is any good for any economy (besides whatever tech might be invented in the process). It'll take years to repay those loans and to build back to the same prosperity as the pre-war version of the country.

As for old money, don't know why you mentioned them but they are more likely than us to survive wars. Even if their assets are destroyed or taken away, you can bet they still got enough hidden to rebuild again.

Basically the idea is that war (and many other things) makes fiat world get a bit worse, and fiat devalues there, and if you are smart enough to take a loan out of it, put it on dollar, and then cash it back out, you could make a lot of profit. Consider this, you are a business person, you have a chance to get a 1 million dollar loan in Russia, but in rubles and not in dollars.

You get about what, 77 million ruble back when it was decent? So, they tell you that you need to pay back like 85 or 90 million ruble, even 100 million ruble when you want to pay that loan back.

But you do not pay it, you just hold it in dollars, now that the war happened, it is 110+ or so in the market, so you just made yourself another 30+ million ruble without doing absolutely anything. Obviously timing that would be hard, but it shows you how war and devalued fiat could help you with money.

Mometaskers

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Quote from: CaVO32 on March 06, 2022, 03:02:59 PM

Quote from: Mometaskers on March 06, 2022, 01:51:29 PM

I'm a bit confused where OP is leading here but I don't think war is any good for any economy (besides whatever tech might be invented in the process). It'll take years to repay those loans and to build back to the same prosperity as the pre-war version of the country.

As for old money, don't know why you mentioned them but they are more likely than us to survive wars. Even if their assets are destroyed or taken away, you can bet they still got enough hidden to rebuild again.

I don't know where the OP is also coming from, but war is bad at all angles. Yes, they can borrow money to rebuild but it will come maybe a small interest from the lender. But in time, country will always recover. They have their own strategies on how to rise up after this. It will be slow, but they can always rebuild. But for now, we are all hoping that this war will stop. There are so many civilians that are sacrificing their lives for nothing.

Save for a few select industries (arms manufacturing, automobile) wars are indeed disastrous. It basically puts everything on hold and then destroys infrastructures/humans (aka assets).

By most of OPs replies here, I think he's thinking about some conspiracy theories (which we shouldn't simply brush off) that elites are are fanning these flames to be able to indebt more countries and have an excuse to print money - which as we've seen with the US these past years, is perfectly achievable even without a war.

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Quote from: 325btc on March 05, 2022, 05:56:30 AM

We know old money is done.
The war can devastete destroy some countires economy and then those countries can borrow money from banks or imf.
We was brink of to choose recression but war can make countries and even fed to do little more quantive easing means we all gona borrow even more money.

The war is always last meassure to save markets and economy markets and economy need fuel and fuel is money but to produce or create money someone need to borrow money but now when the old money is finished quickly and we are at the few steps away from recression
The war is only solution to make us to borrow even more and making ceantral banx to relax their money policy.

The war is a hit on the economy. On the global economy because of measures and countermeasures, and because of investors feeling unsure when there's lack of geopolitical stability. It's also, of course, a huge hit on the economies of the countries directly involved in the war. The war doesn't save markets, it crashes them, and the best situation for economic growth is peace. I have no idea where you're getting all this info from. But yeah, reducing monetary policies might be a necessary, even though very risky in the long-term perspective, step.

Quote from: ?? on ??

I dont talk about real life
Im talking only about what good for markets and our financial system as whole global economy and profit possibilities.
The real life sure its always different

If you're not talking about the real life, then what are you talking about? It's not good for financial system, not good in terms of profit prospects. And even you say it's different in the real life, so are we discussing, like, a fantasy world where everything's different and the war is good for economy or what? Cheesy

CaVO32

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Quote from: Mometaskers on March 06, 2022, 01:51:29 PM

I'm a bit confused where OP is leading here but I don't think war is any good for any economy (besides whatever tech might be invented in the process). It'll take years to repay those loans and to build back to the same prosperity as the pre-war version of the country.

As for old money, don't know why you mentioned them but they are more likely than us to survive wars. Even if their assets are destroyed or taken away, you can bet they still got enough hidden to rebuild again.

I don't know where the OP is also coming from, but war is bad at all angles. Yes, they can borrow money to rebuild but it will come maybe a small interest from the lender. But in time, country will always recover. They have their own strategies on how to rise up after this. It will be slow, but they can always rebuild. But for now, we are all hoping that this war will stop. There are so many civilians that are sacrificing their lives for nothing.

Ararbermas

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Quote from: 325btc on March 05, 2022, 05:56:30 AM

The war can devastete destroy some countires economy and then those countries can borrow money from banks or imf.

what do you mean can borrow money and what banks? Do you mean from the country that starts the war? I don't think so.
Probably in other country they can borrow for their recovery which the one that on their side not the one who wants to invade their country because its nonsense.

And it's not the real plan behind wars, and obviously it's because of competition over territory and resources not to borrow money afterwards. Lol

MCVXYZ

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 05, 2022, 06:19:15 AM

Quote from: 325btc on March 05, 2022, 05:56:30 AM

The war can devastete destroy some countires economy and then those countries can borrow money from banks or imf.

So the more destroyed the country is the more they can borrow? Is the same thing applicable to people? The more i will destroy my house the more loan I can get from the bank using my destroyed house as collateral?

War is needed for governments not people/countries to fight for influence on the great chessboard and to convince people that crisis is made because of ... covid/war ... not because of the system that is f**ked up.

I have never heard such a thing, even if it was right, World bank would not give countries money if their citizens are insolvent. Only one solution is global community support packages from the countries all over the world to the conflicted country to respond the war crisis and build demolished cities again.

Mometaskers

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I'm a bit confused where OP is leading here but I don't think war is any good for any economy (besides whatever tech might be invented in the process). It'll take years to repay those loans and to build back to the same prosperity as the pre-war version of the country.

As for old money, don't know why you mentioned them but they are more likely than us to survive wars. Even if their assets are destroyed or taken away, you can bet they still got enough hidden to rebuild again.

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Quote from: 325btc on March 05, 2022, 05:56:30 AM

We know old money is done.
The war can devastete destroy some countires economy and then those countries can borrow money from banks or imf.
We was brink of to choose recression but war can make countries and even fed to do little more quantive easing means we all gona borrow even more money.

The war is always last meassure to save markets and economy markets and economy need fuel and fuel is money but to produce or create money someone need to borrow money but now when the old money is finished quickly and we are at the few steps away from recression
The war is only solution to make us to borrow even more and making ceantral banx to relax their money policy.

As an illustration: assume your country is a country at war.

Condition now you have 2 options i.e. 1 Bitcoin and $40K banknote. Both were kept for 10 years in the stockpile. Then after 10 years later you use these 2 options, which one still has value?

War is not the last step in solving the economy, in fact it is war that destroys the economy of a country facing a major inflation. Thus forcing a country to borrow the IMF's fiat ek to improve its infrastructure and still have a burden/debt during the economic development process. Debts accumulate along with annual interest, while economic improvements have not fully guaranteed to cover interest.

palle11

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Quote from: Haunebu on March 06, 2022, 07:35:42 AM

What the heck are you talking about op? You are clearly spewing a whole lot of nonsense. Anyone with a half-decent brain knows that wars always have negative consequences(Money, Food, Shelter etc).

This war primarily started because of Putin due to various reasons and will end because of him. No one else wanted it. Only people can save economies(Not Wars).

I get confused with OP. War is capital intensive and changes the focus of a nation therefore affecting the economy. War don't rebuild economy and with simple analysis we can see that. In war you need to spend money to buy weapon that will aid with the one you have and money for other projects will be used for it. Some times it leads to printing of more and the effect is inflation. War don't help any country, it destroys.

davis196

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OP,do you use Google Translate?I can barely understand what you are trying to say with your post.
Wars can boost the revenue of the military-industrial complex.Countries and the people buy more weapons during wars.This means that the military-industrial complex gets bigger income,which means more jobs in the factories,that are producing weapons.This is the only "positive" thing about war.There's nothing else.
Your theory about destroyed countries needing loans to rebuild their infrastructure and industry is partially right,but I don't think that rebuilding something that was destroyed counts as economic development.

Haunebu

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What the heck are you talking about op? You are clearly spewing a whole lot of nonsense. Anyone with a half-decent brain knows that wars always have negative consequences(Money, Food, Shelter etc).

This war primarily started because of Putin due to various reasons and will end because of him. No one else wanted it. Only people can save economies(Not Wars).

tabas

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Quote from: ninis45 on March 05, 2022, 06:39:15 PM

Quote from: tabas on March 05, 2022, 06:21:00 PM

Quote from: 325btc on March 05, 2022, 05:56:30 AM

The war is only solution to make us to borrow even more and making ceantral banx to relax their money policy.

What are you trying to hint on this? That whoever is the borrower started the war? Even there's no war, countries have to borrow money for the aid of any situation that they're dealing with. Just for the example, the pandemic response.

it is true that the state will continue to borrow when the economy is in crisis due to something....
but in reality the war makes a country will make a large-scale borrowing that is not accompanied by economic recovery will even tend to be worse off and the destruction of prolonged economic stability that is felt by civil society in particular

Well, Ukraine will surely borrow huge amount of money for their recovery. As for Russia, they're going to do the same but with sanctions, their allies are the only ones where they can borrow. That's the possibility of what can happen to them but if they'll voluntarily stop the war, it's likely that they'll be given a consideration by most countries and the also the world bank where every country is borrowing for their needs to development their country.

Scripture

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Let’s not normalize war here because no matter what your reasons are, you still kill many civilians and I don’t think Russia and Ukraine do this for the purpose of saving their economy, better to think further.

The only advantage of this war is to those who are selling war machines and equipments, they’ll build more just to ruin the humanity. I don’t see any good reason to start a war, and this topic should is really misleading.

ninis45

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Quote from: tabas on March 05, 2022, 06:21:00 PM

What's with the old money? The traditional money will still remain and will be used whether there's a war or none. As this war has been started, it certainly has triggered the economy for most of the countries and now, we're likely to see the effect of it from all countries whether we like it or not.

Quote from: 325btc on March 05, 2022, 05:56:30 AM

The war is only solution to make us to borrow even more and making ceantral banx to relax their money policy.

What are you trying to hint on this? That whoever is the borrower started the war? Even there's no war, countries have to borrow money for the aid of any situation that they're dealing with. Just for the example, the pandemic response.

it is true that the state will continue to borrow when the economy is in crisis due to something....
but in reality the war makes a country will make a large-scale borrowing that is not accompanied by economic recovery will even tend to be worse off and the destruction of prolonged economic stability that is felt by civil society in particular

tabas

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What's with the old money? The traditional money will still remain and will be used whether there's a war or none. As this war has been started, it certainly has triggered the economy for most of the countries and now, we're likely to see the effect of it from all countries whether we like it or not.

Quote from: 325btc on March 05, 2022, 05:56:30 AM

The war is only solution to make us to borrow even more and making ceantral banx to relax their money policy.

What are you trying to hint on this? That whoever is the borrower started the war? Even there's no war, countries have to borrow money for the aid of any situation that they're dealing with. Just for the example, the pandemic response.

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There will always be spammers on this forum, there is no way to stop it. We have seen it with plenty of accounts, they try to farm merit, get their accounts higher, and then use them to either sell or do signature campaigns. However, they rarely ever get enough merits so they stop eventually and some other spammer comes out.

This topic is low quality at best, if there was a downvote button then it wouldn't even made it to hot pages, this is why bitcointalk needs to turn into more like reddit structure and needs that for the longest time until then we have to live with these people.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: 325btc on March 05, 2022, 09:41:10 AM

Thats why european countries who have less population then russia, china, usa will fight with each other to get more people from syria iraq and middle-east just to get more in their economy.
Usa is lucky they got mexicans who they can bring in country as collateral to create money they might not avail to getloans credit and mortgage but little pennies can be be made per one person and every penny helps

People in europe fight with each other not to take pepole from syria, iraq, middle-ease. In European Union we have imigration problem (I'm not talking about Ukrainians now, they are welcomed, they run for their lives) where countriest are getting economic sanctions for rebelling against the compulsory admission of southern economic immigrants.

"UN World Food Programme’s live Hunger Map aggregates 957 million people worldwide do not have enough to eat on a regular basis. That accounts for 93 hungry countries total! "
https://www.embracerelief.org/world-hunger-facts-world-food-shortage-2021/

Damn ... 957 million people worldwide are starving only because they dont know they can simply take a loan. We must do all we can to inform them.

325btc

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Quote from: gantez on March 05, 2022, 09:32:47 AM

Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 05, 2022, 08:22:19 AM

In this case our margin (something that back our economy) is not a paper, fiat money ... its our GDP (goods and services we are able to create). If we produce more paper money all we do is diluting them if its not backed by increased amount of goods and services available to spend our money on.

Above all that has been said there is an aspect that op is not looking at about war and above the destruction of the fight, the consequence is that it takes down the country's GDP. Yes people are killed and production is decreased which may lead to rise in poverty level if not checked properly by government people by releasing fiat into the system at least moderate to balance the market demand.

Well poverty makes you borrow money for food and house.
Even promese to pay back later u know you never can not pay back later you still gona take the money issued to you not thin air but on " collateral on you" some people call it thin air but its not as those countries where is a lot people like usa/ russia/ china you can issue more money also.
Thats why european countries who have less population then russia, china, usa will fight with each other to get more people from syria iraq and middle-east just to get more in their economy.
Usa is lucky they got mexicans who they can bring in country as collateral to create money they might not avail to getloans credit and mortgage but little pennies can be be made per one person and every penny helps

gantez

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 05, 2022, 08:22:19 AM

In this case our margin (something that back our economy) is not a paper, fiat money ... its our GDP (goods and services we are able to create). If we produce more paper money all we do is diluting them if its not backed by increased amount of goods and services available to spend our money on.

Above all that has been said there is an aspect that op is not looking at about war and above the destruction of the fight, the consequence is that it takes down the country's GDP. Yes people are killed and production is decreased which may lead to rise in poverty level if not checked properly by government people by releasing fiat into the system at least moderate to balance the market demand.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: 325btc on March 05, 2022, 07:47:33 AM

Yes its logical that country after devasted in war can ask for low intrest or negative rate loan or funds to help build up country again.
We been printing money year 2020-2021 a lot this finished quickly.

"To help build up country again" ... so you take loan to build back what you already had ... and you call it "saving economy" or destroying it to be able to borrow more to build it back but with enormous debt?

Quote from: 325btc on March 05, 2022, 07:47:33 AM

Where do we get MARGIN ? We get margin when we all print money the conclusion here if we are going to print more it has to be bigger then prevous years totally in order to maintance our FUTURES position.

In this case our margin (something that back our economy) is not a paper, fiat money ... its our GDP (goods and services we are able to create). If we produce more paper money all we do is diluting them if its not backed by increased amount of goods and services available to spend our money on.

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