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Topic: WARNING! Bitcoin will soon block small transaction outputs - page 13. (Read 58538 times)

full member
Activity: 201
Merit: 100
It increases the costs of that dataset that cannot be pruned

There's no real reason the dataset cannot be pruned - i've been playing with a DB copy of a blockchain, looking at ways of "removing" the records for accounts with a nil balance (amount out = total amounts in) where date is > 30 days ago

I don't *need* as a _user_ of bitcoins the whole blockchain, if I could get "balances at point in time" and the journal entries after that.

I similarly dont really *need* (although I might _choose) to have all my addresses maintain a chain of completed transactions - if I could have a way to "move" the balance to another address within my wallet, I could then "discard" that address.

My "real life" wallet doesnt care which ATM each of the notes came out of, I have a "balance" (occasionally) in there I can spend - in fact having that "tracking" decreases anonymity significantly.

A lightweight client is a key to mass adoption (amongst a number of other things).

It's great that my children can empty a moneybox and see a £2 coin and know from the year "that was the one from Grandma on my 6th birthday". It rapidly becomes irrelevant when its a pile of coins getting spent on a beachball - getting the sand out of your shoes becomes much more pressing. In the same way I dont need to know that 4mBTC came from me testing -QT to a non QT client - it's just 4mBTC to be spent, which due to the size and age of the bitcoins will probably cost me more in fees to use than its worth.

Imagine buying a car for £5000 and taking 500x£10 notes to the deaer but you find they cant sell it to you because they came from 702 different amounts of change from your wages, and some are "worth" less when spending than £10 because they're notes only printed that morning, or were made up of 200x5p transactions... in the "real" world £5k is £5k is £5k not some variable equivalent that might eventually be 5k

 Huh
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1006
100 satoshis -> ISO code

and for the last question. yes you get .00000003 in change, but that is a good point, would that change be blocked with a .00005430 limit?


OK. I'll bite. General question:

Why can't it be a standard feature of wallets that, during preparation of a transaction, any utxo < coin_dust is eliminated and the dust amount added to the transaction fee. Surely, this would help prevent a lot of the new dust spam causing blockchain bloat. Does any wallet do this?
donator
Activity: 1464
Merit: 1047
I outlived my lifetime membership:)
The more people who run a full node, the greater the decentralization[1][2].

I can't run a full node full time right now because there is no upload throttling. The Bitcoin client slows my Internet down to literally unusable (4sec+ pings).

Not because of hard drive space. I've got 900 GB free right now.

What kind of Internet connection do you have? I'm running a full node on a refurb low end Mac mini...I can't tell that I'm running it...I do have a 100mbit/s connection, but I think I would do fine with 1/10 that.
hero member
Activity: 727
Merit: 500
Minimum Effort/Maximum effect
Quote
Is there a web page that gives some statistics on fees in a block?

blockchain.info

Quote
Is there a market for a DVD of the blockchain to bootstrap people with challenging circumstances?  Today, I have fiber optic to the wall of the house, it terminates within 3' of where I am typing.  My mother has a parcel of land next to her farm and it might be good for me to live close to her as she is getting old and lives alone, it is on a dialup.  I don't think I become less savvy or less important if I want to think about her safety and welfare.

yup copy it from the bitcoin directory called Blocks in windows 7 C:\Users\users\AppData\Roaming\Bitcoin

and for the last question. yes you get .00000003 in change, but that is a good point, would that change be blocked with a .00005430 limit?
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1100
Anyone know when 0.8.2 gets released?

Hopefully the first release candidate, will full release notes, will be posted soon (days not weeks).

hero member
Activity: 608
Merit: 502
Anyone know when 0.8.2 gets released?
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
It's a pity read this assert.

The most useful thing of bitcoin is micropays. If you block them, bitcoin lose its main value and a new coin should enter the game.

Micropays...

Not freedom from authority, not an inflation-proof digital asset, not anonymity, not democracy, but buying ringtones over the internet.


Think whatever you want, but the real hook to catch people who wants to trade with bitcoin (not speculate, hoard, invest, and so on) is the possibility paying small amounts without commission penalties.

Bitcoin is for trade... isn't it?

You lot are hilarious.

I also love you.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
Not a file sharing, but distributed DHT-like database HASH=BLOCK

DHT you say?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrotestosterone

Edit: I also think this change is rash.
tard! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_hash_table
hero member
Activity: 634
Merit: 500
Not a file sharing, but distributed DHT-like database HASH=BLOCK

DHT you say?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrotestosterone

Edit: I also think this change is rash.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 18
It's a pity read this assert.

The most useful thing of bitcoin is micropays. If you block them, bitcoin lose its main value and a new coin should enter the game.

Micropays...

Not freedom from authority, not an inflation-proof digital asset, not anonymity, not democracy, but buying ringtones over the internet.

You lot are hilarious.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1002
why the fuck would you send less than 5uBTC to ANYBODY?

My noob impression is that, if I send 1.000 000 00 BTC out, pay 0.001 000 000 BTC in fees, and I have 2 unspent transactions in my wallet of
0.005 000 00 BTC and 0.006 000 03 BTC, I think I will generate an output of 0.000 000 03 BTC as change.

legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1002
I think I might set my dust limit way high like

Code:
minrelaytxfee=0.01

I'm sick of carrying around a whole lot of everybody else's crap. When you exist on dial-up connection and old hardware you might appreciate what the cost of TX actually are. Maybe a lot of the people spouting off about this are actually spoiled brats with high-end rigs and fibre-optic connections living on free electricity?  Wink

Then you shouldn't even be using a full node, go use a lightweight node, otherwise I see no reason to complain.

What?! Are you trying to censor me off the blockchain just because I have dial-up and old hardware? [sarc]Facist nazi rich prick![/sarc]

Is there a market for a DVD of the blockchain to bootstrap people with challenging circumstances?  Today, I have fiber optic to the wall of the house, it terminates within 3' of where I am typing.  My mother has a parcel of land next to her farm and it might be good for me to live close to her as she is getting old and lives alone, it is on a dialup.  I don't think I become less savvy or less important if I want to think about her safety and welfare.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1002
You idiots know it's just a default setting that can be changed, right?

You can just change this in the config, and connect to a few nodes in pools that accept non-standard tx's.
+1

Knock yourselves out, no fork needed, just add this to your bitcoin.conf and convince a few big miners or mining pools to do the same:

    minrelaytxfee=0



Wow dude, you are a fucking Nazi.  Do as I say BITCOIN!

I'm done here if this change is made.  No one dictates what I should or shouldn't send.  I don't give a fuck who you are.

The way I read Gavin's comment, it is completely trivial to do as you want, just put another line in bitcoin.conf.

legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1002
And of course it is worth re-quoting,

This pull request is the first step towards a market between miners (who want higher fees) and merchants/users (who want lower fees, but also want their transactions confirmed). Miners can already control what fees they accept, this pull lets users control (very clumsily, improvements on the road map) the fee they are willing to pay.

Please re-read this before complaining Smiley



Is there a web page that gives some statistics on fees in a block?

The most interesting thing, I think, would be a plot of fee size and the delay before the transaction was included.
sr. member
Activity: 356
Merit: 255
the rate of block solving could change... 5 minute block solving times instead of 10 minute, for instance. (After all the bitcoins are mined, anyway, or else the reward would have to change as well)

No they cannot.
Why not, exactly? It wouldn't be very hard to change the protocol rules to allow the difficulty to remain low enough to generate blocks on a 5-minute average (or 8 or whatever) instead of 10.

I mean, I understand completely the whole "don't make blocks too fast or they'll be a bunch of orphans as competing blocks overlap" issue, but I don't know if there's any compelling evidence that it takes 5 entire minutes for a majority of nodes to verify a new block. (could be wrong, but I haven't seen any real world data to indicate there is.)
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1031
Bitcoin is not suitable for micro transactions. This is all. Nothing new  here, it was pretty obvious from the very beginning that all those dusters are allowed to shit into blockchain only until there are not enough more serious transactions to fill the blocks.


It's a pity read this assert.

The most useful thing of bitcoin is micropays. If you block them, bitcoin lose its main value and a new coin should enter the game.

See my signature to get your hands on such coins...

EDIT: PM me if you're interested in my alt coin newsletter which covers new coins as well as my buy/sell price points that have treated my cryptocurrency portfolio well!
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1001
Unlimited Free Crypto
the rate of block solving could change... 5 minute block solving times instead of 10 minute, for instance. (After all the bitcoins are mined, anyway, or else the reward would have to change as well)

No they cannot.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
Bitcoin is not suitable for micro transactions. This is all. Nothing new  here, it was pretty obvious from the very beginning that all those dusters are allowed to shit into blockchain only until there are not enough more serious transactions to fill the blocks.


It's a pity read this assert.

The most useful thing of bitcoin is micropays. If you block them, bitcoin lose its main value and a new coin should enter the game.
sr. member
Activity: 356
Merit: 255
You should make this a rule, not optional. Otherwise its way too confusing.

Nobody knows if he can send a micro-micro payment or not.

Also I think this is not censorship. Its just another rule.
You guys know that bitcoin is currently limited to 500.000 transactions per day.
Its far away from being ready for world-currency. So for now we should focus
on important transactions. In the future when bitcoin is ready, we can add micro-micro payments.



 

can this 500k/day limit ever be changed?

sure, its the 1MB hardcoded block-size limit. but we cannot just increase this number. infrastructure for it has to be build first, you have to consider:
- block propagation time
- block-chain size
- solution to serve a lot of light-weight clients
and I guess theres much more stuff to improve in the code.
the rate of block solving could change... 5 minute block solving times instead of 10 minute, for instance. (After all the bitcoins are mined, anyway, or else the reward would have to change as well)
newbie
Activity: 45
Merit: 0
You should make this a rule, not optional. Otherwise its way too confusing.

Nobody knows if he can send a micro-micro payment or not.

Also I think this is not censorship. Its just another rule.
You guys know that bitcoin is currently limited to 500.000 transactions per day.
Its far away from being ready for world-currency. So for now we should focus
on important transactions. In the future when bitcoin is ready, we can add micro-micro payments.



 

can this 500k/day limit ever be changed?

sure, its the 1MB hardcoded block-size limit. but we cannot just increase this number. infrastructure for it has to be build first, you have to consider:
- block propagation time
- block-chain size
- solution to serve a lot of light-weight clients
and I guess theres much more stuff to improve in the code.
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