Topic: WARNING! Bitcoin will soon block small transaction outputs - page 2. (Read 58538 times)

Just a couple quick points. They may be the same size as far as data, but for the same amount of btc youd have far more dust transactions. 1btc  = 20 thousand dust transactions of .00005. Thats 20,000 times the amount of data. its because these dust outputs are largely unspendable as inputs that they need to be blocked(soft blocked, can still get around it) if you have a large number of them you cant spend them without a massive fee, unless you connect to a pool that ignores rules for spam, which also allows people to put crap(stuff that isnt money related, links, articles etc) in the blockchain on the cheap. 

Most dust outputs remain unspent because of the fees involved with spending them. that leads to bloat of the blockchain sooner then needed, but its especially an issue for the UTXO set since it has to keep track of all unspent amounts. Pruning would get rid of spent transactions but it cant do anything with money that hasnt been spent.

By richer i only meant you dont have to be rich to mine. Anyone can get involved with mining. It doesnt take a large investment to get some mining equipment and join a pool. Some people that have allot of money can take the risk on mining with vary expensive units for a larger profit, but its also a greater risk. If you wanted you could take out a loan and buy into mining, it would be risky but you could do it, nothing is stopping you. Personally i think the line between 'big investment that paid off' can and has at times crossed over the line of 'foolish investment' but it only has to pay off for it to look like they were smart and knew what they were doing.

@gweedo: You really need to take some time to understand why dust outputs are bad.

@thermos: You need to learn more about bitcoins basics.

"Where in the world do these "dust" "ghost" "dead" type coins go ?"
-The same place every other bitcoin goes. the blockchain.

"watching you guys make the rules up as you go along"
-They arnt made up, they make sense. you just have to have a large grasp of whats involved. Many people havnt had that 'Aha!' moment of understanding or havnt bothered to research the topic or just plain dont know enough about bitcoin to be in a place to understand the issues involved. Bitcoin is complicated and takes time and effort to understand. But once you understand it, it seems like the simplest thing in the world. This topic along with the other goes over every reason why dust is bad. You either have a sufficient foundation of knowledge in bitcoin to understand whats being talked about and why the change makes sense, or your lacking in some key area.

"where do these large mystery blocks and numbers of "error" coins go when they evaporate? "
-What large mystery blocks?Blocks are part of the blockchain and go nowhere. nothing evaporates, its in the blockchain.

"We know insiders have been dumping and shorting crashing the price "
- people are idiots, 'insiders' is anyone that has enough bitcoins to do it. its not rocket science. Eventually the bitcoins will be more spread out and such things wont be possible.

"What is the story about these early created "mystery blocks"
-What? what mystery blocks? im thinking your not understanding how the blockchain works.

"fees to who i don't don't see anything trickling down to the bitcoin community only iron handed censorship to perpetuate a false market for bitcoin money changers and fake ASIC companies NYC;)"
-Now you seem like a sockpuppet or an alt account. trickle down? this isnt a US stimulus package. this whole iron handed censorship comment only shows your A. a sockpuppet. or B. a Sheep willing to say what you hear without knowing anything solid about bitcoin, only rumor.

"no i'm talking about so called "train wreck" type coins produced with syncing backup key issues that vanish into the matrix, and huge numbers of "mystery blocks" that were created years ago and have not been touched for years NYC;)"
-Are you high? Coins that havnt moved in awhile are because people are saving them or forgot about them etc.


Dont take this the wrong way, but you seem to be having a bad day and are letting anger control what you say. that comment( 'richer') really has no grounds in facts.

no i'm talking about so called "train wreck" type coins produced with syncing backup key issues that vanish into the matrix, and huge numbers of "mystery blocks" that were created years ago and have not been touched for years NYC;)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQvXLX85z5w

if you don't like where its headed, you obviously don't like bitcoin. That's like complaining about what Obama is doing and saying, "but I like Obama". Well, you don't like Obama cause you're complaining what he's doing.

Why not just use alt crypto? Can someone clear this for me?

fees to who i don't don't see anything trickling down to the bitcoin community only iron handed censorship to perpetuate a false market for bitcoin money changers and fake ASIC companies NYC;)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soWEZ6ZseAQ

I am a stock market writer invited to attend the upcoming July 30th event in NYC;)

i have a few questions that have gone dusty can anyone help me? :


Where in the world do these "dust" "ghost" "dead" type coins go ?
i wonder to what degree physical bitcoins(coupons) could effect the overall market in the future, and if similiar attempts will be made to control their denominations bitcoin investors are confused by whats going on here, bitcoin appears to be purely speculative and the price reacts as if it's being manipulated be a very small group of insiders who hold the majority of the coins
Acting as a money transmitter shifts the whole concept of bitoin being defined as an anonymous medium of exchange, all of this sounds very complex and experimental watching you guys make the rules up as you go along, where do these large mystery blocks and numbers of "error" coins go when they evaporate? We know insiders have been dumping and shorting crashing the price
What is the story about these early created "mystery blocks" can we come out with a dead mystery bitcoin sniffer, someone will prolly come out with a new improved ghost block cracker and call it ghostbusters' zombie miner NYC;)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQvXLX85z5w

No I don't have the freedom, since miners will still relay the 100BTC transactions, so yeah, not the same thing. Stop using this freedom thing, cause bitcoin has no freedoms anymore. It is pretty much just for greed, everyone wants to make the quick 1BTC here.

Then do so.  You have the freedom.  You also have the freedom of relaying and/or mining 1 satoshi dust too.   Freedom doesn't mean the authoritative hand to force others to do so.

Of course, because you tried to bloat his wallet with ~70 tons of coins.

I guess I missed that part in the whitepapers, where you can only use the blockchain for transfers of wealth. This Insanely upsetting, just shows you guys are a bunch of greedy people and don't have the best interest for bitcoiners. So Sad.

Thank god, for bitcoinj to soon have full verification I can't wait to get away from this horrible team, that would make Satoshi weep.


Edit: How Erik went and became a member of the foundation, is also insane. I feel so bad for him cause you just slander him and his company. Is that a joke in the foundation? That you got his money yet call him an enemy of bitcoin blockchain for abuse.

For some reason my mortgage broker refused to allow me to pay for my house with 30 million 1c coins...

So I'm not the only one who doesn't want to store thousands of tiny fractions, that are basically unspendable (or at least very expensive to spend) for other people.

It's easy to change online services to make them compatible with this and it can be changed back to a lower limit, if it's reasonable.

Do you guys always pay with $/€/... 0.01 coins?

Scalability & making it less expensive (in terms of storage) to run a full node is more important right now. Well done, Mr. Andresen.

The more people who run a full node, the greater the decentralization[1][2].

Using the chain as data storage, rather than currency, costs everybody, because it increases the rate at which people are discouraged from running full nodes.  It increases the costs of that dataset that cannot be pruned, and must be carried for eternity: the unspent transaction output set (UTXO), the list of coins available for spending.

Right now, it remains within the realm of a hobbyist to run a full node, especially with the recent memory usage improvements in bitcoind.  But one day, that will not be the case.

By pushing back on data spam, we reduce the rate-of-increase on blockchain resource costs, and reduce the disincentive to run a full node.  We push back the day at which there are just a handful of archive nodes with a copy of the full block chain.

What exactly stopped you from continuing that?  Why wouldn't a "pure PPS" pool just mine their own dusty payouts?  In some nonsensical scenario where the pool won't mine their own dusty payouts but enough of the network will relay/mine them, why not just change the threshold in the configuration file?  Earlier you said it was about the "reference client"; a pool running an unconfigured reference client doesn't need to be coddled so this argument doesn't make sense IMO.  Change the threshold and/or mine your own payouts, I don't understand why that's a problem.  You are the pool operator and I'm not, so by all means set me straight if I'm missing something.

Difficulty 1 = requires on average 2^32 hashes.  This is an utterly artificial distinction.  Satoshi could have made difficulty 1 require an average of 2^64 hashes and block difficulty would be 0.005355 today.  It would work just as well.  Hell if you wanted to you could accept sub 1 difficulty shares.  Not much point especially as miners get fast but you could. 

There is nothing "fundamental" about difficulty 1 hashes other than you have always done it.  Eventually given a high enough hash rate the value of a difficulty 1 share will be less than 1 satoshi.  What then?  Failure of the PPS pool model?


Um shares are probabilistic.  It will take a miner an average of 197,568,495,616 attempted hashes to find one which meets difficulty 46 target.  While the time between shares is random, in the long run a 300 MH/s miner will find one difficulty 46 shares for every 658 seconds spent mining.  A 300 MH/s miner, mining for a full 24 hours would be expected to find 131 diff-46 shares.  The miner will find 1/46 as many diff-46 shares as diff-1 shares in a given period of time however the diff-46 shares will be worth 46x as much.

Not sure if you are posting without enough sleep but you should know better than most that the only difference between shares (of any difficulty) and block solutions is reduced difficulty.  That is it.  Current block difficulty is ~21 million.  A diff 1 share is ~21 million times easier to find than a block.  A diff 46 share is ~456,000 times easier to find than a block.   The difference between diff-1 and diff-46 is negligible compared to the difference between either and full block difficulty. 

Never? 300 MH/s will generate roughly 5 47-difficulty shares per hour.

You could, but as I said, that is a different matter all together.  A fundamental building block of PPS is the difficulty 1 share, since it's the basis of everything else.  Whether or not it matters if you can pay a difficulty 1 share is another discussion, not really germane to this particular issue.

47 difficulty is way too high for some miners.  Take a Block Erupter for example, at 300 MH/s - it will never get paid in your scenario.  Whether mining is worth it at less than 47 difficulty is a different exercise, though.  As difficulty climbs, the situation worsens for the low hashrate miners.


It did, until now.

Does your pool use 'pure PPS'?

1 share is worth about 1/100th of a penny. I'm ok with bitcoin not being able to flood the blockchain with .01c payments.