WARNING! Bitcoin will soon block small transaction outputs - page 20.

Daily Anarchist

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Quote from: gweedo on May 05, 2013, 09:59:36 PM

Quote from: justusranvier on May 05, 2013, 09:58:10 PM

Quote from: Daily Anarchist on May 05, 2013, 09:27:47 PM

Thank you for clarifying that. While I still strongly dislike the move,

I think when you have more time to absorb what is actually being changed you might change your mind. The bottom line is that every user will be able to set their own dust limit. The current version has hardcoded limits that can not be changed without a source patch and recompile. The new version will have limits that can be changed with a setting in bitcoin.conf.

That is for miners only not the users. So yeah guess you didn't read.

This whole episode has definitely inspired me to be a miner, and a solo miner at that.

justusranvier

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Quote from: Daily Anarchist on May 05, 2013, 09:27:47 PM

Thank you for clarifying that. While I still strongly dislike the move,

I think when you have more time to absorb what is actually being changed you might change your mind. The bottom line is that every user will be able to set their own dust limit. The current version has hardcoded limits that can not be changed without a source patch and recompile. The new version will have limits that can be changed with a setting in bitcoin.conf.

pekv2

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Quote from: bitcoiners on May 05, 2013, 09:50:18 PM

Quote from: solex on May 05, 2013, 09:48:49 PM

Quote from: pekv2 on May 05, 2013, 09:41:39 PM

Quote from: bitcoiners on May 05, 2013, 05:26:50 PM

But you are defending something only the bitcoin "millionaires" want. So far the majority of the bitcoin world is against this if you check the other post/poll in this sub and the votes. I don't care if it's permanent or not. Transaction size should not be limited. Period.

This is exactly how I feel about this change, when and if it occurs. Cutting poor man out. This actually makes my skin crawl.

You know this only affects transactions < 1 cent? Surely you understand that. How many fiat transactions have you ever done for less than 1 cent?
How many poor people would throw away a 1 cent coin? How many beggars would spit at you for tossing them a 1 cent coin?

It doesn't fucking matter. It's regulations put on Bitcoins. That's what matters. Jesus people wake the fuck up.

Exactly. My jaw is dropped over this.

bitcoiners

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Quote from: solex on May 05, 2013, 09:48:49 PM

Quote from: pekv2 on May 05, 2013, 09:41:39 PM

Quote from: bitcoiners on May 05, 2013, 05:26:50 PM

But you are defending something only the bitcoin "millionaires" want. So far the majority of the bitcoin world is against this if you check the other post/poll in this sub and the votes. I don't care if it's permanent or not. Transaction size should not be limited. Period.

This is exactly how I feel about this change, when and if it occurs. Cutting poor man out. This actually makes my skin crawl.

You know this only affects transactions < 1 cent? Surely you understand that. How many fiat transactions have you ever done for less than 1 cent?
How many poor people would throw away a 1 cent coin? How many beggars would spit at you for tossing them a 1 cent coin?

It doesn't fucking matter. It's regulations put on Bitcoins. That's what matters. Jesus people wake the fuck up.

misterbigg

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I fully understand all of the issues involved and from my own point of view Gavin, Jeff, and Greg are doing an amazing job dealing with the unwashed masses of the Bitcoin public regarding these and other issues. Everything so far has been sensible and they deserve a ton of praise for treating the protocol and the software with utmost respect, professionalism, and rigor.

They could ignore the rabble of voices but instead choose to be vocal and open about their rationale, coming to the forum to explain everything that is going on and keeping records of all the deliberations. If only the Bitcoin Foundation was run as well.

solex

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100 satoshis -> ISO code

Quote from: pekv2 on May 05, 2013, 09:41:39 PM

Quote from: bitcoiners on May 05, 2013, 05:26:50 PM

But you are defending something only the bitcoin "millionaires" want. So far the majority of the bitcoin world is against this if you check the other post/poll in this sub and the votes. I don't care if it's permanent or not. Transaction size should not be limited. Period.

This is exactly how I feel about this change, when and if it occurs. Cutting poor man out. This actually makes my skin crawl.

You know this only affects transactions < 1 cent? Surely you understand that. How many fiat transactions have you ever done for less than 1 cent?
How many poor people would throw away a 1 cent coin? How many beggars would spit at you for tossing them a 1 cent coin?

bitcoiners

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Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on May 05, 2013, 09:46:26 PM

Quote from: bitcoiners on May 05, 2013, 09:39:48 PM

Quote from: Gavin Andresen on May 05, 2013, 09:02:39 PM

Quote from: luv2drnkbr on May 05, 2013, 08:52:52 PM

You idiots know it's just a default setting that can be changed, right?

You can just change this in the config, and connect to a few nodes in pools that accept non-standard tx's.

+1

Knock yourselves out, no fork needed, just add this to your bitcoin.conf and convince a few big miners or mining pools to do the same:

minrelaytxfee=0

Wow dude, you are a fucking Nazi. Do as I say BITCOIN!

I'm done here if this change is made. No one dictates what I should or shouldn't send. I don't give a fuck who you are.

There is absolutely no need for personal abuse.

Gavin is doing the best job in what is a very challenging role. He has the support of all of the thinking devs who understand the issues on this change. As far as I can tell, this is the best move possible in the circumstances (noone is all knowing), and timely also.

Chin up Gavin, try to tune out the unthinking mobocracy .... we'll get there in the end.

Gavin just a couple questions?

How much were you paid by the FEDS? Was it enough? You want to regulate bitcoin? Fuck this.

marcus_of_augustus

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Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: bitcoiners on May 05, 2013, 09:39:48 PM

Quote from: Gavin Andresen on May 05, 2013, 09:02:39 PM

Quote from: luv2drnkbr on May 05, 2013, 08:52:52 PM

You idiots know it's just a default setting that can be changed, right?

You can just change this in the config, and connect to a few nodes in pools that accept non-standard tx's.

+1

Knock yourselves out, no fork needed, just add this to your bitcoin.conf and convince a few big miners or mining pools to do the same:

minrelaytxfee=0

Wow dude, you are a fucking Nazi. Do as I say BITCOIN!

I'm done here if this change is made. No one dictates what I should or shouldn't send. I don't give a fuck who you are.

There is absolutely no need for personal abuse.

Gavin is doing the best job in what is becoming a very challenging role. He has the support of all of the thinking devs who understand the issues on this change. As far as I can tell, this is the best move possible in the circumstances (noone is all knowing), and timely also.

Chin up Gavin, try to tune out the unthinking mobocracy .... we'll get there in the end.

pekv2

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Quote from: bitcoiners on May 05, 2013, 05:26:50 PM

But you are defending something only the bitcoin "millionaires" want. So far the majority of the bitcoin world is against this if you check the other post/poll in this sub and the votes. I don't care if it's permanent or not. Transaction size should not be limited. Period.

This is exactly how I feel about this change, when and if it occurs. Cutting poor man out. This actually makes my skin crawl.

Quote from: bitcoiners on May 05, 2013, 05:53:37 PM

Quote from: SgtSpike on May 05, 2013, 05:51:16 PM

This is a fundamental change of Bitcoin, and really seems to go against the idea of freedom of financial transactions. Now, we will be regulated to only sending transactions of a certain size. No free market choice here...

Bleh.

This

Agreed.

Big Banks > US Government > Gavin...

This whole thing stinks of high shit.

bitcoiners

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Quote from: Gavin Andresen on May 05, 2013, 09:02:39 PM

Quote from: luv2drnkbr on May 05, 2013, 08:52:52 PM

You idiots know it's just a default setting that can be changed, right?

You can just change this in the config, and connect to a few nodes in pools that accept non-standard tx's.

+1

Knock yourselves out, no fork needed, just add this to your bitcoin.conf and convince a few big miners or mining pools to do the same:

minrelaytxfee=0

Wow dude, you are a fucking Nazi. Do as I say BITCOIN!

I'm done here if this change is made. No one dictates what I should or shouldn't send. I don't give a fuck who you are.

Daily Anarchist

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Quote from: jgarzik on May 05, 2013, 09:23:40 PM

Quote from: Daily Anarchist on May 05, 2013, 09:22:12 PM

If this isn't a protocol change, but merely a CLIENT change, then this is essentially a non-issue.

This is not a protocol change.

This is a client change.

Thank you for clarifying that. While I still strongly dislike the move, I retract my earlier statements about not upgrading. Hopefully this will inspire a new team of devs to create a competing client with the QT.

jgarzik

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Quote from: Daily Anarchist on May 05, 2013, 09:22:12 PM

If this isn't a protocol change, but merely a CLIENT change, then this is essentially a non-issue.

This is not a protocol change.

This is a client change.

Daily Anarchist

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Quote from: David M on May 05, 2013, 09:19:39 PM

I just read through the entire thread and support links...

My first impression (without any research) was WTF!!

After some reading it dawned on me.

No blockchain changes.
No forcing of the version on clients (or miners) who still want satoshi sized transactions.
The change is client configurable.

I don't see an issue.

If this isn't a protocol change, but merely a CLIENT change, then this is essentially a non-issue. If we ( and I include myself in this) don't like it, then it should incentivize us to create competing bitcoin clients. And ultimately, Gavin says that's what he wants. Perhaps he knows that this issue will piss off a lot of people and inspire them to start an alternate client to the QT.

David M

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I just read through the entire thread and support links...

My first impression (without any research) was WTF!!

After some reading it dawned on me.

No blockchain changes.
No forcing of the version on clients (or miners) who still want satoshi sized transactions.
The change is client configurable.

I don't see an issue.

JamesTaylor

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Quote from: gweedo on May 05, 2013, 04:50:09 PM

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on May 05, 2013, 04:46:06 PM

Quote from: gweedo on May 05, 2013, 04:31:39 PM

I agree with this we need to fork, bitcoin was once known for the small transactions, and they want to take that away. Gavin has an ego and it needs to be taken under control. This is ridiculous this is a fix because they don't want to spend time trying to fix the bloat of the blockchain thru censorship!

I think we need to ask ourselves if Bitcoin will be a small transaction currency in the future or if it will be the backbone of a new future financial system in which the regular user rarely interacts with the blockchain directly.

That said, rather then fork- why not devise an alt-coin or use bitcoin testnet coins for this?

Your talking about something maybe in 25-50 years from now could happen. Today I want to send a penny if I use 0.8.2 I can't. IT IS CENSORSHIP. THE FOUNDATION IS ALL ABOUT CENSORSHIP!!!! GAVIN IS A DICTATOR OF BITCOIN. SATOSHI WOULD CRY RIGHT NOW!!! THE DEV TEAM CAN"T EVEN CODE THERE WAY OUT OF A PAPER BAG, THEY ARE USELESS. I am sick of them, the community is sick of them, it is time to cut them out of the power positions they have created for them self. If you believe that your correct go update, but trust me it starts with little changes like this and next thing you know your silk road addresses are block, then other things. GAVIN IS A POWER HUNGRY GREEDY PERSON, I SAW THIS FROM DAY ONE OF THE FOUNDATION. I HAVE BEEN RIGHT THE WHOLE WAY DOWN TO THIS.

OVER THROW THE DEV TEAM, THEY CAN"T HANDLE THE POWER THEY HAVE!

Even with caps, Quote worthy. I thought exactly the same and was not sure how to express it. Who gave them the power? Are they even proved as good enough programmers? This should not be allowed with the main client the vast majority is using. Not at all. Community raise.

finway

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Read through the threads and pullreq, i support this change.

gweedo

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Quote from: bigbeninlondon on May 05, 2013, 08:58:31 PM

Isn't this a bitcoind exclusive setup? Isn't that all Gavin is responsible for? Can't other clients still publish no fee tx's to the network? Why is everyone so doom and gloom about bitcoin in general? This is just one release of a bitcoin wallet, amirite?

But you are required a bitcoind for mining so yeah. Don't let anyone fool you Gavin has control of all of bitcoin.

gmaxwell

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Quote from: notme on May 05, 2013, 07:53:06 PM

Luckily, the solution is obvious: blockchain pruning.

Pruning reduces historic data, it doesn't reduce the unspent transactions outputs— they could be spent at any time so you need a ultimately trusted copy of them in order to validate a block you receive (and prevent theft and inflation). Part of the problem with people cramming data in 1e-8 value txouts— which are completely and forever unspendable, but not in a way which can be machine detected— is that it increases the size of the data which cannot ever be pruned.

jgarzik

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Quote from: Omen1855 on May 05, 2013, 09:01:27 PM

So, a hardcoded magic number has been made configurable. Except most do not like the new default magic number.

Yes. Though I argue that most are just not familiar with the system, and reacting without learning.

As it currently stands, the new default magic number is lower than in prior versions. So fees are getting lowered -- and user configurable to be easily lowered again (or raised, if that is what the user desires).

gmaxwell

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Quote from: edmundedgar on May 05, 2013, 08:17:16 PM

People seem to want to use the network to send messages,

Even prunable data results in perpetual storage. We've talked in the past at adding messaging, not because it belongs in Bitcoin (in fact it has very high costs and serious risks) but because it would deflect some of the transaction messaging stuff which is even worse... but that would do nothing to address the fact that some people wise to use data packed in transactions to coerce Bitcoin users to store data for them against their wishes— someone trying to do that won't use a kinder alternative voluntarily.

Quote from: Omen1855

Except most do not like the new default magic number.

I think your sampling of people with bright orange ignore indicators on Bitcointalk may not be the most representative sample. Tongue

But indeed, its configurable.

Topic: WARNING! Bitcoin will soon block small transaction outputs - page 20. (Read 58538 times)