Topic: Warning by Coinbase of Treasury Rule Change for KYC All Addresses. Poll! :) (Read 420 times)

Well the USA government let the people grow some wealth always then suddenly it will be taken Away one way or another,  2009 Economic crash and mortgage fraud teose fraudsters was not even in jail what have learned? 
Morals dont work as long as you do all juridically correct you do it perfect.

And what have changed now?
Another fraud allegation the biden election!

Why doesn't the USA worry about the current problems they are facing... Gee maybe for example their corrupt laws corrupt police. Racism which is so bad it makes South Africa look like a loving place when slaves were here.

None of this is going to happen and you can't tax crypto. Crypto is not money and it never will be. It is something traded privately among the people. It has nothing to do with the government. We reject their money and use our own kind of funding. As long as you not converting to fiat there is nothing to pay. There way to many other problems going on in the world for them to worry about his. They can't even keep actual violent criminals in prison so how will they enforce this nonsense. I don't feel threatened in the slightest bit.

Maybe if governments behaved themselves we wouldn't need to invent crypto just to keep their filthy clothes off our hard earn labour. When the government stops spending tax money on crap and wasting it then they can have an opinion on "money laundry" and "tax avoidance". Funny how the biggest criminals are always the ones calling out others for minor "crimes"

I don't actually see why refusing to fund a corrupt government is even a crime. We pay tax and we expect a certain level of service and we simply are not getting it so why should we pay these criminals?

Knowledge is Good. Ignorance is Evil.
This is all you need to know.

Institutional investors that drive this current rally wouldn't mind such regulations, it's not a problem for them to abide to them, especially if they even never interact with Bitcoin's blockchain and just keep their coins on the platform. They still could consider it as negative news because it would hurt some retail investors and just users, but who knows if they care about such things or not.

So, market-wise, the impact of such regulation is not exactly clear - it would probably cause some panic, but nothing too big or long-term. As for the community, maybe it will be a wake-up call to switch towards more decentralized platforms.

It is more likely that the 1.2 Trillion dollar tax cuts to the rich on the so-called 'economic' trickle down and massive spending by Trump Administration

would be overturned if the Democrats had their way. Thus, such money would likely still be spent on the current economic crisis and/or social policies

to the middle class and some other widespread ills of the USA. You are right, neither party will actually stop spending money..it is how politics work

now with the Supreme Court and Citizen's United Case saying 'unlimited' political contributions are allowed. Thus them 'pesky' 2 party system leadership

have no control of their own representatives in Congress or wherever..because the more 'radical' you are on the left or right the more outside your state

special interest $$$ you can get..so why compromise as your party may want you to?

So if both parties are gonna blow $$$ like drunk sailors, I'd prefer my tax $$$ to be spent on the social safety net and other programs and not deficit spending

to the top 1% and corporate welfare as it has been the last 4 years.

So it is a matter of politics, where the money is gonna get spent.

Now that Trump has driven out all the 'fiscal conservatives' from the Republican party

and such...well, the economic 'pie' of the USA grows...the 'pie' gets better for everyone as the economy expands or we are so screwed...

for the economy to 'grow' ourselves out of this economic deficit hole due to above and pandemic...economic expansion is the only protection against this

deficit and the likely inflation and IMHO recession around the corner. BTC/Crypto may do well in such, not so much everything else if this does not pan out, IMHO.

This must happen or the USA will have a fun time like Japan and struggle the next decade to get any kind of traction in our economy or growth. Dark Times.

Not that I know squat...but did not see a lot of trickle-down from the beneficiaries of the previous Trump Administration tax cuts and corporate welfare

as I viewed such...so going with option B above and get rid of the above Trump tax cuts and spread it around more in society instead of..a select few.

Again, not that I know squat, but how all this seems to be shaking out for the next 4 years or more. We have to revive the economy out of recession,

tame pandemic, figure out how to grow economy to overcome things we need to do and pay for in society as well as plan for the deficit...and also, at

least in Biden Administration's view, get the country to do a complete 180 on almost all Trump Administration policies in the last 4 years. Man, why anyone

would want to be President of the USA, I've no idea! Daunting tasks ahead as a society here in the USA.

Brad

if the requirement for withdrawals is to prove ownership of the receiving address, you would just whitelist one address in a wallet you control. all withdrawals would go to that address only. from there, you can do whatever you want with the coins.

as far as likelihood goes......i have a feeling some of the more draconian requirements will be scaled back, but that something will be passed during the lame duck session. maybe they'll put the FATF's $1000 travel rule threshold into place.

You guys in USA get some partners in europe or uk Where is very relax to deal with crypto!!

How can you deal with this IRS?  THEY are like big bully mind terror!

Indeed, in 2014, after going to my CPA for my taxes to get done for 2013, I started mining like hell as a BTC newbie in my basement from Oct 18th, 2013

onward till 2014 and had accumulated a hoard of BTC. Anyway, got my taxes done by her (the CPA) in February 2013. Then the IRS, being the assholes,

that they are, in frigging 10 days...I remember looking was announced 10 days before taxes were due for 2013 the  IRS added the mining rules

as income and the rest of such.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

At the same time between Feb 2013 and May 2013..my Banker ...saw I had used a  wire xfer

of over 10k for BTC miners overseas, and informed SEC that I was an 'evil' drug dealer or something because in 2013 all BTC was 'evil' to bankers.

I got out of such after the banker tried to screw me with prison while the SEC guy was on speaker-phone by saying he bet I did not do taxes. Thus the CPA

tax saved forms above saved my ass again! Fun times, called him an asshole and slapped down revised Taxes for 2014..the SEC guy was why am I  here?

Anyway, sometime before the banker showdown, I go back to the CPA....she reads rules and starts laughing and keeps saying I'm like a Farmer..yeah,

I was confused...but the IRS rules state sure I had to treat mining as income (unlike before when you just had to HODL and pay zip on my previous

unmodified tax return already in)...but I also got to take equipment depreciation and she set me up as a business...so anyway at the end rather than

pay no taxes...I got like $4k back in tax refunds as the small business angle...no cap gains, because I held on to BTC....so trying ....as hell..it worked out,

If the CEO of Coinbase is correct and this dubious rule does come to play to regulate KYC via exchanges on addresses etc, it also IMHO will work out

but will be the usual cluster***k of confusion like my above issues..for more than a few months till resolved in 2021 is my guess.

Anyway, my point is, lots of FUD, stuff, IRS  and other things COULD be tossed out in as little as 10 days or less before the Biden Administration comes into office in

2021 just to play monkey wrench in the BTC/Crypto world and to make the Biden Administration deal with this.

I myself, again, IMHO, think that it is likely the CEO of Coinbase is right..and his rumor is likely true (hope I'm wrong though)

and such a cumbersome tracking KYC overreach is likely to be put in place..but again, IMHO, it will be more likely to be killed eventually by the

new Biden Administration..though that may take time..and this FUD may affect BTC price recovery (like in 2014 with IRS rule) for the first 6 months

of 2021.

So BTC/Crypto prices could just sit on hands and go sideways for a few months, again, till resolved by real adults.

So remember, I've seen this probably 1/2 dozen times since 2013...governments

may not be able to stop BTC/Crypto..but they have and probably will use FUD and dubious regulations and laws to muddy the waters on occasion and indeed

this will always affect the price of BTC/Crypto with the uncertainty..so if I am correct and such as the Coinbase CEO says these rules come into play well...

expect a stall in price or dump of price and play the game 'cheap coins' till it is resolved is gonna be my game ...if such is the case...

This use of FUD as a way for big money/govt/super-rich to 'tweak' the BTC/Crypto ecosystem in either a vain attempt at control or a vain attempt to limit the price

pump and speed/or speed of adoption and or influence of BTC/Crypto in the future...always fails. It sucks and is painful and sometimes scary though.

So FUD and FOMO will always be with us, though again, if they pass this regulation it will be a lot more blunt and obvious what the goals are, IMHO,

then in past cases of this kinda thing..at least since I got into BTC/Crytpo in 2013.

Bitcoin: Always doubters...Always drama!

Brad

Its so simple Trump administration was giving out big money.
And Biden administration Will just take it from You.
So simple  

Ta the End of the january btc Price might be 30k+
Many Will Buy then and its a tax trap!!

In all fairness, I can't see the rule if it passes to by the U.S. Treasury under the Trump Administration to do this as actually staying in place when the Biden

The administration is sworn into place. However, the rule could sit there for quite a while and 'confuse' the BTC/Crypto Universe just by oversight or neglect

on fixing such by the new Biden Amdinatraion. It is not like they don't have a lot of other stuff, in their view that they want to address ASAP!

So, we could be in for some 'neglect' on this and 'confusion' before something was resolved on such idiocy. I mean so many of these 'dubious' regulations

and executive orders with the main goal of just messing up the Biden Administration taking over the Executive Branch....we could be in for more that a few

months wait ..till this would be 'likely' overturned/resolved.

Brad

One side effect will be to keep people in bitcoin and not trading it in and out.  Long term, that is good for bitcoin.

I'll be surprised if it happens now. Maybe with a Biden administration, yes.  December or January, doubtful.  Such a rule would only help the Biden admin, and hurt freedom, so it seems unlikely Trump would do it. Deep state "regulators", DC "elite" and the like, perhaps.  Trump has decreased regulations consistently for nearly 4 years, what would be the logic for him to reverse course?  Sure, some of the long time DC folks would want it, but an outsider?

Troll freaks all over the world want to know what everyone does that every single hour of the day with every single penny they have so they can skim some.

Taproot and other improvements can't come soon enough.

After reading that long post on the previous page I feel like most of the problems OP had (and potential screwups that thankfully did not happen) came out the way you followed government requirements. In short, they asked you to report all your coin transactions and you spent a lot of time to satisfy them, but if they wanted to they could say the evidence was falsified or something and screw you over. For this reason I don't report anything, ever, and simply choose the way of making sure they can't track me and prove that I own coins instead of trying hard to make them happy against all odds.
As for the plumbers and people who come into the house, I had that question many times and told my wife that if someone sees my computers and stuff she's to tell that I'm into it, programming or something, but she doesn't know what that is. We avoid the word cryptocurrency during social gatherings. So far so good.

I would not bet that other civilized nations will not follow the same path, not perhaps because it is the right solution, but everyone knows what pressure the US is willing to take towards others to accept some things. I'm sure Russia, Iran or North Korea won't care what the US says, but the EU is another story and I'm pretty sure they would pass an identical or similar law.

The same goes for Japan or India who dancing exactly the way the US plays, so I really hope this doesn't work, because as you say, even with the best will of every user, it won't be possible to prove origin and ownership.

For me, I am very confident that Bitcin will bypass all this just as it surpassed all previous American administrations. It is certain that such people will exist in the new American administration and the existence of such strict laws and regulations against Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies will have a lot of negative impact on exchanges and the world of Crypto in general, But I am confident that Bitcoin will overcome all these difficulties as it has always done, and this administration or others will not be able to stop the force of development.
America is the central country in the global economy. This is true, but it is not like that in the Bitcoin world. It is certain that this world will soon change with all its systems and laws because this is the logic of history and the logic of evolution.

I think it's a crazy idea and very unfair to Bitcoin holders. Then again, I don't think they'll be able to enforce it because there are international exchanges where people would be able to exchange their BTC without confirming the ownership of the wallet.
It could push the price down significantly, but only temporarily. Bitcoin would recover anyway, as it always does.
But I hope the US won't go for it or it would get overruled by the new administration.

If the requirement to pass KYC will apply to each transaction and this will present a certain inconvenience, then traders and participants in the cryptocurrency market in general will not use exchanges under the jurisdiction of the United States.  After that, many exchanges will move to other countries.  I don't think that such a requirement will last long.  There are also FATF recommendations dated June 21, 2019 that KYC is required only for transactions over one thousand euros.

In the USA such  'proof' is the responsiblyt of who the regulations effects...dumb regulation or law or whatever in 2014 like 10 days before the IRS deadline for taxes the previous year..the IRS decided it was

gonna make a statement and 'slap down' that pesky Bitcoin. So I was required to write down 'every day' the LTC I mined and total LTC...on paper (nothing existed to do this like excel spreadsheets) then go through

my main wallet and print it out and highlight with a note where it went...this was guite challenging because some of the miner groups and exchanges that existed went away along with any proof I mined

the BTC legally. I also in 2014 had my banker sic the SEC on me because BTC was illegal....and showed up with my CPA taxes done and shot him down...not to mention the plumber I wanted to have stuff

done in my basement in 2013...and he asked about the KNC Jupiter BTC Miner and I told him it 'mined' Bitcoin..he said, that is for drug dealers right, and walked out my door never to be heard from again.

fun times not.

NOW my CPA says that IF I was ever audited they have to be 'specific' and the IRS has since said that good faith records from that time period were fine....so if I was audited..i can follow my massive

paper trail down to whatever I did back in the day (less exchanges and miner pools that went poof)

So, indeed from like 2013 to 2016 or so ...if I would have been audited I would have been screwed after 2016 with enough snafus/mess-ups like coinbase forms mistakes at IRS telling people they owed IRS by the IRS

when it was the other way around...they were asking taxes on bought btc/crypto..well less so after 2016.

so if this rule of a USA exchange MUST track the in and outs of every transaction per each address being KYC at each end..(fine...you have my name and KYC to look at for that.. BUT if they insist that it goes for sellers

of goods and every frigging address spinning out and away like ..what...forever?

one of 2 things will happen

1) Biden administration and new treasury head will kill this obvious WTF rule ASAP...and that will be that.

or

2) Biden administration will let it stand and that means coinbase and all the USA exchanges will threaten to leave the country as it being unmanageable to do....wait 2 years as this was done in china

and all the exchanges left...and then an adjustment like china for USA exchanges this time around and times move on again. At best would be an 'uncomfortable' 2 years or price and BTC/crypto confusion.

So, if it stands IMHO with above confusion ...we could be looking at 9k to 13K coin and the past returns with BTC/Crypto going sideways in price for a bit...fomo price pump etc effectively killed..we have

seen BTC/Crypto do the sideways price thing in the past after the 2014 IRS rules....it would be the same IMHO.

I myself, am beginning to think that every time BTC/Crypto starts to look like it is really going to put the moves on gold/silver/fiat currency/stock market returns etc

Suddenly, dubious regulations pop up to cool BTC/Crypto's price jets for a period of time. BTC/Crypto making big money/govt/power/corps nervous...Indeed the returns this

year from $7,200 or so Jan 1st, 2020 to the high of what $18,500 this month...well...that needs to be stopped is the consensus in the Trump Administration..it Never works long term.

But I suppose if you are conspiracy minded it lets the traditional money and

powers that be catch up, and buy in at much lower prices, to the crypto revolution and buy in at a much cheaper rate than $25k to $35K coin..if such FUD/Regulations and the rest were not added to the mix.

I myself, expect this indeed to be done by the Treasury Secretary....before years end...would even bet my one $$$ this will be so...

that the rule will demand ALL crypto  going to any BTC address empty or trezor or not must have a KYC at each end...and addresses KYC.

that should liven things up some huh?

So look at it as 'cheap coin' because if such regulations can put the btc/crypto back in the toothpaste tube after getting out..well...BTC/crypto is doomed anyway.

But again, cooler heads should prevail as soon as someone (adult) in the Biden Administration is shown the how addresses used or not are generated on the fly in trezor's and etc all over

the place and they are in a sense asking the equiv of USD dollar  users to keep track of the serial numbers on your fiat money and when buying something make sure the other person is legit

in his use of the USD as well...as you check his USD registration numbers on his cash too boot.

Funny, if this rule goes through, or even before..if someone was to sell their BTC/Crypto HODL for say 2 million USD....the only thing coinbase would be know your customer and an

expectation that you pay 15% - 20% cap gains and maybe your states income tax on such..paper on such will go to IRS 1099...once it hit your bank and you put it in a suitcase and wandered off to spend it on hookers

and blow..the tracking would stop....in that USD would not be under these rules. The Secret Service in court cases in the past has always said USD bills are much more hard to trace than BTC/crypto in illegal acts

and such.

Again, just another way of the use of regulations and FUD to keep BTC/Crypto prices down and muddy the waters...and such will work IMHO..so 'cheap coin it is" I guess and moving on.

Again, power concentrates with wealth, power/influence and traditional finance...in that Voting by mail as an example of 'decentralized' power and labor unions (or something equiv) as push back

against corporation's sometimes illegal greed and now BTC/Crypto...I guess we should just get used to the fact that every time we get near an ATH or too much 'noise' in how well BTC/Crypto is doing

vs traditional centralized wealth and power etc. This kinda stuff is gonna happen 'regulation' wise to slap our uppity decentralized project down some..at least in the short term and in price.

So cheap coins everyone, if not cheap coins as a concept..and they win..well...the BTC dust I will accumulate from now till then won't matter compared to my hoard so I may as well go down fighting such.

BTC/Crypto...always drama!

(sorry end of rant..i type really fast...bored...pandemic and all and have seen this kinda thing above at least 3 or 4 times since 2013)

Brad

How are they going to prove that someone owns a private wallet, even if they used coinbase at some point in time? You had money coming from a wallet to coinbase? Someone you don't know was sending you money for some job done online. You had money going from coinbase to an address? That's not your address, you were sending coins to someone that you don't know, but that person did some work for you, or had a birthday coming, or whatever. Whoever discloses all their addresses to the government just because they say so is a moron.

using coinbase as an example as i use it.

im kyc'd to the hilt there. they can analyze where my coins come from and go with their chain analysis division anyway.

a lot of my coins came from old mining pools in 2011 on, some of which dont exist anymore (dwarfpool, btcguild etc). now, i have signed messages from those pool payout addys saying who i am and what equipment i mined them with filed away and still control those addresses. i also still have (most) of my old swept paper wallets so can sign them too, but who on this planet has kept EVERY address they have controlled and can still sign messages saying it was yours to prove chain of ownership?

and coins on mycelium, old armory wallets etc. i cant see how one can prove old coins are legit theirs from pools or now defunct exchanges (mtgox etc) if they dont have the keys to those addys anymore.

also, pretty sure i cant sign my trezor segwit addys.

cant see how this would work.

the biggest thing is that if the usa tried this, most usa companies and citizens drop it (or go dark) and when the rest of the civilized nations adopt bitcoin the usa will be left far, far behind.

Gov want to CONTROL everyrthing about money, there will be more and more KYC in the internet in the future