[WARNING] Stay away from BRC-20 tokens - they are doomed in the long term

fzkto

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Quote from: d5000 on November 05, 2023, 09:21:45 AM

After it seemed for a couple of weeks that the community's IQ was rising again Wink

, unfortunately, this thread now needs to be revived. There seems to be a new wave of BRC-20 transactions which are again clogging the blockchain, probably related to a Rodarmor blog post commiting to stability in the Ordinals protocol.

Some BRC-20 tokens like ORDI ~~are~~ were bouncing:

But the (still small) 4% crash in the last few hours already may show what's ahead.

This is not FUD. There are lots of reasons why this kind of tokens is completely unviable - simply see the OP. They are not only unnecessary because there are lots of other token mechanisms, but also extremely inefficient.

What I noticed: The Ordinals websites newer show mid- to long-term charts - so they can hide how bearish the Ordinals and BRC-20 markets were. Probably they are run from desperate bagholders. Many people already lost a lot of money, like the longer term ORDI chart shows. And many people buying into this dead cat bounce will lose money too.

BRC-20 tokens are the most worthless thing the crypto space has ever produced (besides from outright scams). So you're buying, with TWO transactions, a token to show your friends that you own something called "ORDI"? And you need TWO transactions to sell them again, if you really find any greater fool than you? Grin

Anything can happen. I have always been cautious about any tokens, because as a rule only a few of them can be promising. That's true of any blockchain. It's fair to say that not only tokens, but any altcoins can rarely ever grow consistently. But I think the hype around BRC could happen again, so I think those who bought these tokens will have a chance to sell it.

d5000

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After it seemed for a couple of weeks that the community's IQ was rising again Wink

, unfortunately, this thread now needs to be revived. There seems to be a new wave of BRC-20 transactions which are again clogging the blockchain, probably related to a Rodarmor blog post commiting to stability in the Ordinals protocol.

Some BRC-20 tokens like ORDI ~~are~~ were bouncing:

But the (still small) 4% crash in the last few hours already may show what's ahead.

This is not FUD. There are lots of reasons why this kind of tokens is completely unviable - simply see the OP. They are not only unnecessary because there are lots of other token mechanisms, but also extremely inefficient.

What I noticed: The Ordinals websites newer show mid- to long-term charts - so they can hide how bearish the Ordinals and BRC-20 markets were. Probably they are run from desperate bagholders. Many people already lost a lot of money, like the longer term ORDI chart shows. And many people buying into this dead cat bounce will lose money too.

BRC-20 tokens are the most worthless thing the crypto space has ever produced (besides from outright scams). So you're buying, with TWO transactions, a token to show your friends that you own something called "ORDI"? And you need TWO transactions to sell them again, if you really find any greater fool than you? Grin

nutildah

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Quote from: d5000 on September 21, 2023, 10:24:37 PM

I repeat to all newbies: I am almost sure that BRC-20 isn't a standard that will make you rich in the future. Most likely you'll lose money and everybody eventually will say "BRC-20 is so 2023" Grin

I agree with this sentiment: the same mentality used to hype ERC20 tokens and a lot of NFT projects is now applying to BRC20 -- the main marketing tactic is to tell people to buy them because its the "new hot thing," because "everyone is doing it," because xx token "is about to flip" this or that other token or coin. There's nothing inherently valuable about any of these tokens - they serve absolutely no purpose or function - just pure hype trains that will inevitably end in a crash.

Admittedly its a bit disappointing that we're headed toward the 4th quarter of the year and they're still a nuisance to the mempool... But the hype will fade away soon enough, guaranteed.

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Quote from: SlimShadyMmp on June 09, 2023, 05:03:33 PM

Bitcoin MAXI dont really like BRC-20 aand they really have a point in not like them because basically the are just inscription with no value at all and just add to the weight of the network and making BTC looks like a joke I know its open source and that people are free to do the things they like but if you look at this Its basically doing more harm than helping BTC in anyway So I will stay away from it It wont last very much

I think it's obvious though, just look at what happen to the mempool again. Recently there are spikes in the fees and it seems it was a blatant attack on the network and Bitcoin's blockchain.

I wouldn't call it though Bitcoin Maxi, I mean even newbies and average joe bitcoin investors is going to see what is really behind this BRC-20. Just another hype and fad and soon it will go away. But it might create problems with new investors, as the possibility of losing money here is huge.

d5000

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As in the last months a new "wave" of Ordinal transactions was emerging, I think it's time to remind people about the character of BRC-20 and everything related to it.

Here's a graph about what happened:

You can see the original real-time graphs here.

As we can see, the green Ordinals transactions are by far the majority - and they should be almost all BRC-20 transactions and derived standards. But the current wave is a bit weaker, but longer in its duration, than the big wave in the northern hemisphere's spring months. On the other hand, the decrease of average and total size of all Ordinals transactions is still quite slow. They still take up significant block space.

I repeat to all newbies: I am almost sure that BRC-20 isn't a standard that will make you rich in the future. Most likely you'll lose money and everybody eventually will say "BRC-20 is so 2023" Grin

Reasons are in the original post.

And of course look at the charts (Ordi token is one of the most popular ones):

Those who followed my recommendation in the OP haven't lost money. Even Bitcoin was a way better option in the last months Grin

Longer price evolution (e.g. 180 days) was even worse (Ordi once was worth $20).

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Quote from: AmoreJaz on June 09, 2023, 05:56:41 PM

Quote from: Bitstar_coin on June 09, 2023, 03:10:50 PM

Quote from: noorman0 on May 08, 2023, 01:35:21 AM

I just don't think the hype will last as long as nft tokens on other networks like ERC20 or BSC20. However bitcoin is not oriented towards this technology, nft and token enthusiasts will not find a better efficiency solution (if they saw this sooner) despite migrating to the bitcoin network.
In conclusion, the hype isn't going to absorb more fans of past nft hype just by looking at the current average transaction fees.

NFTs are still hyping incase you don't know, in crypto nothing rarely faded out completely except the project stop existing because the devs stop development completely.

Same thing will apply to brc-20, this imo is just the beginning of many more projects that will sprang up in the btc network with the aim to catch the hype. What is happening now is the testing phase, most of the projects are nft base, soon more indept projects will beginning to come up. I doubt this is going anywhere, rather, the earliest projects will die and much better advanced ones will come up. There is always a dev to create something.

brc20, erc20, nfts and all the other type of projects, we should always keep in mind that there will always be crappy projects that will emerge in any market. so it is up to the user how he will filter these projects. there are valuable brc20 or erc20 projects, so we cant totally discard their existence in this industry.

Certainly, your acquaintance's observation on the continuity of trends in the crypto sphere is rather astute. Despite the ephemeral nature of some projects, the technological concept behind them often resurfaces in a more refined form. To this end, the BRC-20 and ERC-20 standards are paradigms of this evolution, particularly within the sphere of DeFi and NFTs.

However, I feel the need to point out a slight shortcoming in your friend's argument. The "hype" he mentions is largely influenced by market dynamics and speculative behavior, not necessarily technological advancement. The blockchain space has seen many a project that initially created buzz, only to evaporate when the trend shifted. It is less about the death of early projects and more about the maturity and resilience of the ones that endure.

As for your comment about the ubiquity of "crappy projects", I agree wholeheartedly. The caveat emptor principle applies as much in crypto as it does in traditional finance. It is the responsibility of each investor to conduct their own due diligence.

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Quote from: Bitstar_coin on June 09, 2023, 03:10:50 PM

Quote from: noorman0 on May 08, 2023, 01:35:21 AM

I just don't think the hype will last as long as nft tokens on other networks like ERC20 or BSC20. However bitcoin is not oriented towards this technology, nft and token enthusiasts will not find a better efficiency solution (if they saw this sooner) despite migrating to the bitcoin network.
In conclusion, the hype isn't going to absorb more fans of past nft hype just by looking at the current average transaction fees.

NFTs are still hyping incase you don't know, in crypto nothing rarely faded out completely except the project stop existing because the devs stop development completely.

Same thing will apply to brc-20, this imo is just the beginning of many more projects that will sprang up in the btc network with the aim to catch the hype. What is happening now is the testing phase, most of the projects are nft base, soon more indept projects will beginning to come up. I doubt this is going anywhere, rather, the earliest projects will die and much better advanced ones will come up. There is always a dev to create something.

brc20, erc20, nfts and all the other type of projects, we should always keep in mind that there will always be crappy projects that will emerge in any market. so it is up to the user how he will filter these projects. there are valuable brc20 or erc20 projects, so we cant totally discard their existence in this industry.

SlimShadyMmp

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Bitcoin MAXI dont really like BRC-20 aand they really have a point in not like them because basically the are just inscription with no value at all and just add to the weight of the network and making BTC looks like a joke I know its open source and that people are free to do the things they like but if you look at this Its basically doing more harm than helping BTC in anyway So I will stay away from it It wont last very much

Bitstar_coin

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Quote from: noorman0 on May 08, 2023, 01:35:21 AM

I just don't think the hype will last as long as nft tokens on other networks like ERC20 or BSC20. However bitcoin is not oriented towards this technology, nft and token enthusiasts will not find a better efficiency solution (if they saw this sooner) despite migrating to the bitcoin network.
In conclusion, the hype isn't going to absorb more fans of past nft hype just by looking at the current average transaction fees.

NFTs are still hyping incase you don't know, in crypto nothing rarely faded out completely except the project stop existing because the devs stop development completely.

Same thing will apply to brc-20, this imo is just the beginning of many more projects that will sprang up in the btc network with the aim to catch the hype. What is happening now is the testing phase, most of the projects are nft base, soon more indept projects will beginning to come up. I doubt this is going anywhere, rather, the earliest projects will die and much better advanced ones will come up. There is always a dev to create something.

d5000

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If what gmaxwell writes here is true, then BRC-20 and Ordinals are completely doomed in the long-term.

What he wrote is basically that Bitcoin eventually will move to a mechanism where not everything stored in previous blocks will be kept in storage by the nodes. The initial blockchain validation by new nodes would then be achieved by other means (perhaps by something similar like the mini-blockchain scheme). It would then become difficult to find a node providing all Ordinals/BRC-20 inscriptions, which means that data storage on the Bitcoin blockchain would not be permanent anymore.

The post is also interesting because it seems that Ordinals had some financing by persons with very shady intentions with respect to Bitcoin. If some people describe Ordinals as an "attack" there is perhaps a bit of truth in it.

This only reinforces my stance about that: Keep away from BRC-20. And probably from all inscription-related features.

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Quote from: Doan9269 on May 22, 2023, 09:10:40 AM

Quote from: livingfree on May 22, 2023, 05:02:14 AM

I think those people that are obsessed with BRC20's don't realize that the dev himself said that it's still experimental. But on this market, people who sees some opportunity to make quick profits don't have to look at those sides.

As long as they get money from these trends, they'll stay and when it's about to show its pitfall then everyone will start to loose and untie themselves on it before it collapses.

Thank you OP for this thread!

If you're interested in NFTs and you're putting your money into them calling them your investment then you're wrong, that hype they always see common to this kind of token is what use to deceive many from enjoying the fruit of their investment after they would have been distracted to invest on the wrong token, there's a very high risk in token than in memecoins, we should know that they are just all about a temporary research just like the testnet before the main launch is out which is the coin.

As said, they should just put money on it as if they're for the collectibles. But with BRC20, it's something new to them so they think that on this market whoever goes first always has the advantage and that's what they're doing.

It's only just a matter of time until we see people are going to be turned off from it and they'll start to have the idea that it's much better if they just leave this chain of Bitcoin alone and focuses to the smart contracts that they usually see in other projects.

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Quote from: livingfree on May 22, 2023, 05:02:14 AM

I think those people that are obsessed with BRC20's don't realize that the dev himself said that it's still experimental. But on this market, people who sees some opportunity to make quick profits don't have to look at those sides.

As long as they get money from these trends, they'll stay and when it's about to show its pitfall then everyone will start to loose and untie themselves on it before it collapses.

Thank you OP for this thread!

If you're interested in NFTs and you're putting your money into them calling them your investment then you're wrong, that hype they always see common to this kind of token is what use to deceive many from enjoying the fruit of their investment after they would have been distracted to invest on the wrong token, there's a very high risk in token than in memecoins, we should know that they are just all about a temporary research just like the testnet before the main launch is out which is the coin.

livingfree

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I think those people that are obsessed with BRC20's don't realize that the dev himself said that it's still experimental. But on this market, people who sees some opportunity to make quick profits don't have to look at those sides.

As long as they get money from these trends, they'll stay and when it's about to show its pitfall then everyone will start to loose and untie themselves on it before it collapses.

Thank you OP for this thread!

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All I see is the happiness that BRC20 works on Bitcoin chain, that fact alone is why they are hyping it, like they never expected such on Bitcoin chain, yet they are blind to see how it's so limited and there for, it won't last for long because of the limitations, I've always said that if this is something that can work better Satoshi would have made it public right from the start, and maybe Ethereum developer won't even need to baked Ethereum Chain at all.

Thanks for the write-up OP, I pray we will all be alive to see how long this BRC20 will be here for, even the projects running on BRC20 are all quake works crappy projects, not one solves anything new, they are jam-packed with what's already available on other chains.

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It's nice to see that the BRC-20 developer himself, Domodata is now recommending openly Taproot assets (formerly known as Taro), a much better and more modern protocol, to create fungible tokens on Bitcoin:

Quote from: Outhue on May 14, 2023, 02:15:13 AM

Nice one OP, Twitter is now hyping the hell out of BRC-20 on the platform and many people are still buying those Ordinals, I know that this won't last very long, there will come a time where Ordinals will stop trending.

Yep, BRC-20 is already a bit downtrending in blockchain space. Albeit the hype isn't over yet, around 200K transactions per day are probably still of this kind. (I dunno if my humble thread here has contributed a bit).

Quote from: Outhue on May 14, 2023, 02:15:13 AM

My concern is the devs on Bitcoin, they are still there I believe, why cant they put an end to this before millions of dollars went into Ordinals?

Why should they care? The devs should care about the core protocol, not about an experiment with an experimental "protocol extension". They could issue a statement, but I guess there are diverging opinions on how "good" or "bad" Ordinals/BRC-20 is for Bitcoin. And I think they know: people learn best by losing money.

If things really don't normalize in a couple of weeks (fees are already in an acceptable range again), then I guess a "standardness" policy change via policy.cpp is the best way to go. A softfork crippling Taproot would be an extreme measure.

By the way: they've discussed it, but the only one (among the devs, not the occasional mailing list visitors!) pressuring for action is Luke Dashjr, who's known for his a bit eccentric nature.

BTW: I'm a bit annoyed that this thread was moved into Altcoin Discussion. BRC-20 is a Bitcoin technology, and this post was intended to warn beginners. But whatever ...

Outhue

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Nice one OP, Twitter is now hyping the hell out of BRC-20 on the platform and many people are still buying those Ordinals, I know that this won't last very long, there will come a time where Ordinals will stop trending.

My concern is the devs on Bitcoin, they are still there I believe, why cant they put an end to this before millions of dollars went into Ordinals? Crypto is getting more complicated, we already have so much bullshit in crypto space and many more unnecessary junk keep showing up.

Lack of regulation? Everyone are on a race of making millions with crypto and people are now into creating stupid things with ease, it takes not less than 10 minutes to create a new token today and everyone is now a developer.

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Quote from: d5000 on May 13, 2023, 03:05:11 PM

It seems that there are now even more "standards" being developed on top of Ordinals. Among them are BRC-721 (a standard for NFT collections), BRC-777 and BRC-1155.

These standards are more related to NFTs than the fungible BRC-20 tokens. But AFAIK they share the same problems I described in the OP. They need an inscription per transfer, and thus two Bitcoin transactions when there should be only one.

I think the new developer want to implement anything which previously add on Ethereum network to Bitcoin network. BRC 20, BRC 721, BRC 777, BRC1155, don't forget with BRC 4626, even though one to another standard isn't that different.

I guess we might see there's a wallet can be used directly to connect a project e.g. dApps in Ethereum, I think it's possible if the developer create fork or smart contract, although the drawback we will see many wallets or projects are scam.

d5000

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It seems that there are now even more "standards" being developed on top of Ordinals. Among them are BRC-721 (a standard for NFT collections), BRC-777 and BRC-1155.

These standards are more related to NFTs than the fungible BRC-20 tokens. But AFAIK they share the same problems I described in the OP. They need an inscription per transfer, and thus two Bitcoin transactions when there should be only one.

Gladitorcomeback

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Yes you are right that BRC 20 is getting so much hype and Bitcoin price now very high because of these high paying transaction. This is another problem BTC holder now facing. First ordinal NFT ws introduced but it's didn't got big hype and now Brc20 is live and interesting to see that coins launching on this network are pumping well and investing in these coins can give you fast profit but remember high risk also included. i have not participatd in this chain although i minted ordinal nft months ago. i have 100$ which I can afford to lose and i am thinking to check this chain too because of hype.

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The BRC-20 hype has caused bitcoin transaction fees to increase, in fact I don't know what to do to move some bitcoin from one wallet to another other than just wait for the fees to down. Of course people should be given a good understanding of what BRC-20 is instead of just expecting returns for their greed. This hype will fade soon, but I think it will probably last all of 2023.

Regarding bitcoin, should we wait for transaction fee adjustments or should we look for an alternative solution right now?

Topic: [WARNING] Stay away from BRC-20 tokens - they are doomed in the long term (Read 470 times)