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Topic: Warning to bears: Big players in China (Read 5196 times)

legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1087
March 06, 2013, 01:03:58 PM
#65
From what I've read... I think macao is a huge potential for bitcoin. Why? Because they have issues with getting money back and forth across the chinese border. I read that they basically have to get paid once they are back in china since they can't bring money across the border or something.
If anything Hongkong should be the next largest exchange.

Bringing money from and to mainland is never a problem in HK. And HK has the best banking network with the Western. If BTC needs to grow in China, HK is the hub for it.


WRONG!!!!!
There is a LEGAL limit of 10-20kRMB of RMB that can be hand carried across the border. Anything outside of that range CAN BE CONFISCATED.
to do an IBT (inter-bank trnsfer, requires a special licence)

The MAXIMUM you can change at a bank in Hong Kong is 20K a day WITH IDENTIFICATION.
Quote
Renminbi Services for Hong Kong Residents

Risk Disclosure Statement
•   Renminbi (“RMB”) exchange rate, like any other currency, is affected by a wide range of factors and is subject to fluctuations. Such fluctuations may result in gains and losses in the event that the customer subsequently converts RMB to another currency (including Hong Kong dollars); and
•   RMB is currently not freely convertible and conversion of RMB through banks in Hong Kong is subject to restrictions. For instance, for a personal customer who holds Hong Kong Identity Card, conversion of RMB from/to another currency is currently subject to a respective daily limit of RMB20,000 per person per day. Customers may have to allow time for conversion of RMB from/to another currency of an amount exceeding the daily limit. The actual conversion arrangement will depend on the restrictions prevailing at the relevant time.

Up until last year it was only allowed for Hong kong residents.
http://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/201207/25/P201207250563.htm

You obviously don't know WTF you are talking about......

You obviously don't know what the fuck you are talking about. My family runs a jewelry firm in Hongkong and we bank gold and silver for around $225k per day. But we are known in banks like BoC and HSBC so we don't need identification anyway. I have seen and I've heard and i KNOW 100s of times where people has put in 30-40- even 70k with just their passport (they're expats) mostly because they do it with money from our jewelry store. If you could only deposit $3k they would be toast. They go to really any bank, open an account with their passport and they're free to deposit their money, no questions asked. HK-banks are the new swiss banks. And even if it weren't, you could easily have a few dinners and lunches and a little money on the side and there would be no questions anyway. You should know this if you live here, because it's common practice. Everyone and everything can be bought here. Just look at any of the Shenzhen border controls and all the human mules passing by 30 times per day.

 The hongkong bank system is the role model for most offshore banking systems and we're not even considered offshore.

occam rang and told me he is quitting the razorblade business cos of this post Cheesy

I dont know jack about HK either but your explanation sounds pretty much *exactly* how I reckon it is going down, much like it always has everywhere else in the world, since forever.

Money Talks...
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
March 06, 2013, 05:16:28 AM
#64
From what I've read... I think macao is a huge potential for bitcoin. Why? Because they have issues with getting money back and forth across the chinese border. I read that they basically have to get paid once they are back in china since they can't bring money across the border or something.
If anything Hongkong should be the next largest exchange.

Bringing money from and to mainland is never a problem in HK. And HK has the best banking network with the Western. If BTC needs to grow in China, HK is the hub for it.


WRONG!!!!!
There is a LEGAL limit of 10-20kRMB of RMB that can be hand carried across the border. Anything outside of that range CAN BE CONFISCATED.
to do an IBT (inter-bank trnsfer, requires a special licence)

The MAXIMUM you can change at a bank in Hong Kong is 20K a day WITH IDENTIFICATION.
Quote
Renminbi Services for Hong Kong Residents

Risk Disclosure Statement
•   Renminbi (“RMB”) exchange rate, like any other currency, is affected by a wide range of factors and is subject to fluctuations. Such fluctuations may result in gains and losses in the event that the customer subsequently converts RMB to another currency (including Hong Kong dollars); and
•   RMB is currently not freely convertible and conversion of RMB through banks in Hong Kong is subject to restrictions. For instance, for a personal customer who holds Hong Kong Identity Card, conversion of RMB from/to another currency is currently subject to a respective daily limit of RMB20,000 per person per day. Customers may have to allow time for conversion of RMB from/to another currency of an amount exceeding the daily limit. The actual conversion arrangement will depend on the restrictions prevailing at the relevant time.

Up until last year it was only allowed for Hong kong residents.
http://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/201207/25/P201207250563.htm

You obviously don't know WTF you are talking about......

You obviously don't know what the fuck you are talking about. My family runs a jewelry firm in Hongkong and we bank gold and silver for around $225k per day. But we are known in banks like BoC and HSBC so we don't need identification anyway. I have seen and I've heard and i KNOW 100s of times where people has put in 30-40- even 70k with just their passport (they're expats) mostly because they do it with money from our jewelry store. If you could only deposit $3k they would be toast. They go to really any bank, open an account with their passport and they're free to deposit their money, no questions asked. HK-banks are the new swiss banks. And even if it weren't, you could easily have a few dinners and lunches and a little money on the side and there would be no questions anyway. You should know this if you live here, because it's common practice. Everyone and everything can be bought here. Just look at any of the Shenzhen border controls and all the human mules passing by 30 times per day.

 The hongkong bank system is the role model for most offshore banking systems and we're not even considered offshore.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1000
Enabling the maximal migration
March 06, 2013, 02:53:15 AM
#63
It nearly hit 300 yuan (significant psychological resistance for chinese here) and then bounced back (that was the reason for the slight dip a few hours ago). That's 48.2 in USD (while mtgox USD only hit 46). I think what is driving mtgox right now is primarily chinese arbitragers...

Check out the charts:

USD, no significant resistances:




Yuan:



If my hypothesis is correct, we have not seen anything yet. Buckle your seatbelts.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
March 05, 2013, 08:19:05 PM
#62
Consider also that the Chinese economy has some underlying issues itself and that it appears to be experiencing some serious bubbles. A reliable store of wealth could be just what smart people are looking for. I bet gold is hard to own there too.

http://sovereignlife.com/blog/2010/chinese-government-encourages-gold-buying/

I'm not sure I understand his hypothesis. My take on China encouraging people to invest in gold is for them to one day confiscate all the gold to back the state currency.

China has a huge gold market, it has been for a long time. Besides, I bet that CPC is invested in BTC itself, you guys have no idea how many of the high-level cadres believe in the "currency war" theory, and they seem to be particularly into the idea of IMF Special Drawing Rights as a global standard currency, probably they are open to other new ideas, and yes, they have got first-class finanical mathematicans/ analysts working for them.

oakpacific, thanks for the input.  I'm not in disagreement, but how much of this is just hearsay?    Will China back their currency with gold in the next few years?  What's you're source, on everything?

Well, I didn't say China will back their currency with gold, just that buying gold has never been a problem here. The BTC part is of course pure speculation, other than the fact that the demand for BTC is obvious, as has been pointed out by the OP, the "currency war" part could be verified by many media reports out there(I can look them up if you want), the IMF SDR part is really old news, they openly proposed it, the report was everywhere.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
March 05, 2013, 08:10:05 PM
#61
Consider also that the Chinese economy has some underlying issues itself and that it appears to be experiencing some serious bubbles. A reliable store of wealth could be just what smart people are looking for. I bet gold is hard to own there too.

http://sovereignlife.com/blog/2010/chinese-government-encourages-gold-buying/

I'm not sure I understand his hypothesis. My take on China encouraging people to invest in gold is for them to one day confiscate all the gold to back the state currency.

China has a huge gold market, it has been for a long time. Besides, I bet that CPC is invested in BTC itself, you guys have no idea how many of the high-level cadres believe in the "currency war" theory, and they seem to be particularly into the idea of IMF Special Drawing Rights as a global standard currency, probably they are open to other new ideas, and yes, they have got first-class finanical mathematicans/ analysts working for them.

oakpacific, thanks for the input.  I'm not in disagreement, but how much of this is just hearsay?    Will China back their currency with gold in the next few years?  What's you're source, on everything?
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
March 05, 2013, 08:08:24 PM
#60
Consider also that the Chinese economy has some underlying issues itself and that it appears to be experiencing some serious bubbles. A reliable store of wealth could be just what smart people are looking for. I bet gold is hard to own there too.

http://sovereignlife.com/blog/2010/chinese-government-encourages-gold-buying/

I'm not sure I understand his hypothesis. My take on China encouraging people to invest in gold is for them to one day confiscate all the gold to back the state currency.

China has a huge gold market, it has been for a long time. Besides, I bet that CPC is invested in BTC itself, you guys have no idea how many of the high-level cadres believe in the "currency war" theory, and they seem to be particularly into the idea of IMF Special Drawing Rights as a global standard currency, probably they are open to other new ideas, and yes, they have got first-class finanical mathematicans/ analysts working for them.
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
March 05, 2013, 11:22:36 AM
#59
Consider also that the Chinese economy has some underlying issues itself and that it appears to be experiencing some serious bubbles. A reliable store of wealth could be just what smart people are looking for. I bet gold is hard to own there too.

http://sovereignlife.com/blog/2010/chinese-government-encourages-gold-buying/

I'm not sure I understand his hypothesis. My take on China encouraging people to invest in gold is for them to one day confiscate all the gold to back the state currency.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
March 05, 2013, 11:17:17 AM
#58
Consider also that the Chinese economy has some underlying issues itself and that it appears to be experiencing some serious bubbles. A reliable store of wealth could be just what smart people are looking for. I bet gold is hard to own there too.

http://sovereignlife.com/blog/2010/chinese-government-encourages-gold-buying/

Interesting. Though that could also be said to operate in Bticoin's favor too Cheesy
donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
March 05, 2013, 10:54:58 AM
#57
Consider also that the Chinese economy has some underlying issues itself and that it appears to be experiencing some serious bubbles. A reliable store of wealth could be just what smart people are looking for. I bet gold is hard to own there too.

http://sovereignlife.com/blog/2010/chinese-government-encourages-gold-buying/
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
March 05, 2013, 09:45:12 AM
#56
Bitcoin could be big for the Chinese. Consider all the doo-hickeys you can buy on ebay for a dollar with free shipping. For that dollar, you're getting shipping, ebay fees, paypal fees, currency conversion fees and finally, the doo-hickey itself. Bitcoin could eliminate at least two and weaken a third of those.

Consider also that the Chinese economy has some underlying issues itself and that it appears to be experiencing some serious bubbles. A reliable store of wealth could be just what smart people are looking for. I bet gold is hard to own there too.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
March 05, 2013, 08:17:05 AM
#55
Today, BTC China shot up to 296CNY, or 47.57USD. Somebody spent >100k USD to archive this ATH

Don't underestimate Chinese speculators. Some of them could be really irrational

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=940&m=btcnCNY&SubmitButton=Draw&r=1&i=15-min&c=1&s=2013-03-06&e=2013-03-06&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=&m1=10&a2=&m2=25&x=1&i1=Vol&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=0&cv=1&ps=0&l=0&p=0&

I recently came across some Wenzhou businessman invested in bitcoin, hmmm..........  Roll Eyes Grin

Are you serious? That's really huge!

Well I wouldn't say it's huge yet, but I also have enough confidence in their business sense, once some of them get to know it, they could eventually figure out its potential. And as we all know, the price of pretty much anything they go after will............ Grin
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
March 05, 2013, 07:58:41 AM
#54
Today, BTC China shot up to 296CNY, or 47.57USD. Somebody spent >100k USD to archive this ATH

Don't underestimate Chinese speculators. Some of them could be really irrational

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=940&m=btcnCNY&SubmitButton=Draw&r=1&i=15-min&c=1&s=2013-03-06&e=2013-03-06&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=&m1=10&a2=&m2=25&x=1&i1=Vol&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=0&cv=1&ps=0&l=0&p=0&

I recently came across some Wenzhou businessman invested in bitcoin, hmmm..........  Roll Eyes Grin

Are you serious? That's really huge!
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
March 05, 2013, 07:50:33 AM
#53
Today, BTC China shot up to 296CNY, or 47.57USD. Somebody spent >100k USD to archive this ATH

Don't underestimate Chinese speculators. Some of them could be really irrational

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=940&m=btcnCNY&SubmitButton=Draw&r=1&i=15-min&c=1&s=2013-03-06&e=2013-03-06&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=&m1=10&a2=&m2=25&x=1&i1=Vol&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=0&cv=1&ps=0&l=0&p=0&

I recently came across some Wenzhou businessman invested in bitcoin, hmmm..........  Roll Eyes Grin
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
March 05, 2013, 07:46:43 AM
#52
Today, BTC China shot up to 296CNY, or 47.57USD. Somebody spent >100k USD to archive this ATH

Don't underestimate Chinese speculators. Some of them could be really irrational

sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
February 25, 2013, 11:39:31 PM
#51
From what I've read... I think macao is a huge potential for bitcoin. Why? Because they have issues with getting money back and forth across the chinese border. I read that they basically have to get paid once they are back in china since they can't bring money across the border or something.
If anything Hongkong should be the next largest exchange.

Bringing money from and to mainland is never a problem in HK. And HK has the best banking network with the Western. If BTC needs to grow in China, HK is the hub for it.


WRONG!!!!!
There is a LEGAL limit of 10-20kRMB. anything outside of that range CAN BE CONFISCATED, the MAXIMUM you can change at a bank in Hong Kong is 20K a day WITH IDENTIFICATION.
Quote
Renminbi Services for Hong Kong Residents

Risk Disclosure Statement
•   Renminbi (“RMB”) exchange rate, like any other currency, is affected by a wide range of factors and is subject to fluctuations. Such fluctuations may result in gains and losses in the event that the customer subsequently converts RMB to another currency (including Hong Kong dollars); and
•   RMB is currently not freely convertible and conversion of RMB through banks in Hong Kong is subject to restrictions. For instance, for a personal customer who holds Hong Kong Identity Card, conversion of RMB from/to another currency is currently subject to a respective daily limit of RMB20,000 per person per day. Customers may have to allow time for conversion of RMB from/to another currency of an amount exceeding the daily limit. The actual conversion arrangement will depend on the restrictions prevailing at the relevant time.

Up until last year it was only allowed for Hong kong residents.
http://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/201207/25/P201207250563.htm

You obviously don't know WTF you are talking about......


Idiot, you obviously dont know how brokers/agents works.

Have you ever wondered how all those ebay sellers make more cash?

I never said its legal, i said its never a problem. I guess i cant expect kids like you to understand.

Hint for you: most if not all agents are located in Shenzhen.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
February 25, 2013, 11:35:24 PM
#50
From what I've read... I think macao is a huge potential for bitcoin. Why? Because they have issues with getting money back and forth across the chinese border. I read that they basically have to get paid once they are back in china since they can't bring money across the border or something.
If anything Hongkong should be the next largest exchange.

Bringing money from and to mainland is never a problem in HK. And HK has the best banking network with the Western. If BTC needs to grow in China, HK is the hub for it.


WRONG!!!!!
There is a LEGAL limit of 10-20kRMB of RMB that can be hand carried across the border. Anything outside of that range CAN BE CONFISCATED.
to do an IBT (inter-bank trnsfer, requires a special licence)

The MAXIMUM you can change at a bank in Hong Kong is 20K a day WITH IDENTIFICATION.
Quote
Renminbi Services for Hong Kong Residents

Risk Disclosure Statement
•   Renminbi (“RMB”) exchange rate, like any other currency, is affected by a wide range of factors and is subject to fluctuations. Such fluctuations may result in gains and losses in the event that the customer subsequently converts RMB to another currency (including Hong Kong dollars); and
•   RMB is currently not freely convertible and conversion of RMB through banks in Hong Kong is subject to restrictions. For instance, for a personal customer who holds Hong Kong Identity Card, conversion of RMB from/to another currency is currently subject to a respective daily limit of RMB20,000 per person per day. Customers may have to allow time for conversion of RMB from/to another currency of an amount exceeding the daily limit. The actual conversion arrangement will depend on the restrictions prevailing at the relevant time.

Up until last year it was only allowed for Hong kong residents.
http://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/201207/25/P201207250563.htm

You obviously don't know WTF you are talking about......
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
February 25, 2013, 11:31:15 PM
#49
Sorry it may be obvious or already mentioned, given that we're talking about China

How is bitcoin going to work through the great firewall of China?

No problem at all this moment. People can use, trade, and discuss publicly.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
February 25, 2013, 11:26:01 PM
#48
Sorry it may be obvious or already mentioned, given that we're talking about China

How is bitcoin going to work through the great firewall of China?

Bitcoin is probably as resilient as Tor, you will have to shutdown a large portion of the internet to decapitate the network. Besides, why?
sr. member
Activity: 260
Merit: 250
February 25, 2013, 08:26:12 PM
#47
Sorry it may be obvious or already mentioned, given that we're talking about China

How is bitcoin going to work through the great firewall of China?
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
February 25, 2013, 04:41:42 PM
#46
It just occurred to me that mining economics in China would be much more favorable

It is already happening since 2011 AFAIK.

The other day there was a Chinese mentioning that he got together with some classmates to buy an Avalon rig.
They are forming mining guilds!

Bitcoin outsourced

one problem of mining in china is that is hard to get the equipment free of dust. and the lungs too. damn Sad

They could set the rigs out in Africa and have local children keeping them running?
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