Warren Buffett and His Expansive Explanation against Bitcoin - page 2.

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Quote from: LoyceV on May 03, 2022, 06:41:51 AM

Quote from: serjent05 on May 01, 2022, 03:10:10 PM

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“it doesn’t produce anything,” Buffett said.”

It's always the same argument: a rich old guy with strong interests in dollars conveniently ignores the fact that the dollar itself doesn't produce anything either. Bitcoin is a medium of exchange, like the dollar. But unlike the dollar, it can't be inflated away by a centralized institution.

Common, he was talking about investing those $, not keeping them, investing in assets in order to produce something. He clearly states he would write down in a split second a check with $ for something he would deem profitable, he's not defending the $ anywhere.

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Quote from: serjent05 on May 01, 2022, 03:10:10 PM

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“it doesn’t produce anything,” Buffett said.”

It's always the same argument: a rich old guy with strong interests in dollars conveniently ignores the fact that the dollar itself doesn't produce anything either.
Bitcoin is a medium of exchange, like the dollar. But unlike the dollar, it can't be inflated away by a centralized institution.

Quote from: o48o on May 01, 2022, 07:05:04 PM

It baffless me why people are listening to old geezer when it comes to new technology.

They don't even have to be old, people generally seem to confuse billionaires for people who share their interests. The "popularity" of certain billionaires on a certain website with tiny posts makes absolutely no sense too.

Quote from: Pomogator on May 01, 2022, 08:21:59 PM

He became very successful in his time through fiat and risky stock trading

That was also the time when a single job was enough to afford a family, house and car. Since then, "capital" has taken a bigger and bigger slice of the pie, and working people get less and less. This is great for billionaires, but terrible for the rest of the country. And it shows again that an old billionaire has completely different interests than you and me.

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Quote from: Z-tight on May 01, 2022, 03:43:36 PM

Warren Buffett is entitled to his opinions, but i just feel he is missing the point that Bitcoin is more of a currency that anything else, from reading the whitepaper i understood that Bitcoin is first of all a currency and every other thing on top is extra, and that is where he gets it wrong when he asks "what can it produce"? I can also ask what can the U.S. dollar produce, it is a medium of exchange, it can be used for buying and selling or as a reserve currency, but what does it produce. Bitcoin too, just that Bitcoin is a different kind of currency and for many reasons like being decentralized is yet to be mainstream, but it is still a currency.

Then as an asset what it produces is returns, returns for users who want to make a conjecture on the future price, more people will be lucky to make that return in the long term and the reason why they will is easy, Bitcoin gets scarce as the years roll on, and the demand will continue to snowball, a scarce asset with a large demand will result in a high price for that asset.

Warrant Buffett is a great investor and as such his opinion holds a lot of weight among other investors, but he does not get it, in fact he has made some similar statements against gold in the past, for him gold is just a piece of metal and he does not seem to understand that the whole concept of money originated with it and that even today it would be better than the fiat system we have in place, so it does not surprise me at all that he does not get bitcoin at all either.

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When I saw a topic about Warren Buffett and Bitcoin, all the topics obviously criticizing or even spreading FUDs about Bitcoin. We all already know he's really doesn't like Bitcoin and didn't even understand what it is, even Bitcoin already hit $1 million and legal in every jurisdictions... I believe he will keep saying Bitcoin is a bubble and never want to buy Bitcoin. However we're don't know what's the behind, perhaps he already bought a lot Bitcoin and never tell anyone.

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Quote from: Z-tight on May 02, 2022, 08:59:27 AM

Quote from: mindrust on May 02, 2022, 12:36:31 AM

Bitcoin isn’t trying to replace the Dollar. It is carrying the dollar. There is a whole world of difference. If it was the otherwise, then we would price things in bitcoins. But no, we still do price things in USD. The whole world do this. Not just the US.

Bitcoin cannot replace the Dollar or another currency, it is not even trying to do that because that is not why it was even made, it is a currency too, an alternative one, but different from the traditional kind because it is decentralized. What do you mean by it is carrying the Dollar? Bitcoin is not the only asset that is priced in dollar, the Dollar is a global currency and many assets are priced in the dollar too.

What I mean is pretty clear. Btc is decentralized but its usd value fluctuates. On the other hand, usdt is centralized but its value is fixed. When you buy something with btc, what you really pay is the dollar value of that product.

Let’s say I bought a $10 domain with my btc. What is the real price of the domain? $10 or 0.000xxx btc? It is $10. The btc amount changes every second but $10 stays same for months. What the merchant wants is the dollar value.

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Let’s not forgot the biggest tell tale thing that Buffett has said when it comes it bitcoin and cryptocurrency.. “I don’t understand it”. Warren Buffett has admitted to one of the most unintelligent things a human being can do, hate on something without even remotely understanding it. That’s the facts when it comes to Buffett and Bitcoin, so I’m not even taking anything he says in this regard seriously.

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Not every investors have same perspective on a particular things, it is subjective based on their own mindset. He always think that bitcoin is an asset something like a gold or property but in reality its neither a property or gold it is just a simple medium of exchange and don't have any particular value the actual value comes based on the demand and supply.

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Quote from: tabas on May 02, 2022, 05:50:48 PM

He did say rat poison to bitcoin so expect that he'll never change his position towards it. But there's also this theory that just like the other popular investors, they're buying quietly and as they do that, they have to turn the market down by telling negative things about it.
But in theory too, if understanding that bitcoin is a rat poison, you can revert the meaning of it and put it through the fiat and traditional system.

What to expect with those people who always think that their statement is always a word of wisdom?

Maybe they really do that on the purpose because we know Buffet is a investor who want to try many things just to gain. Also maybe he's just exaggerating things just to create doubts and want bitcoin to dump for them to buy it at much cheapest price. But let see how future work with this old school dude since once they think they are out dated for sure they adopt this in future if they are not into this at the moment.

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He did say rat poison to bitcoin so expect that he'll never change his position towards it. But there's also this theory that just like the other popular investors, they're buying quietly and as they do that, they have to turn the market down by telling negative things about it.
But in theory too, if understanding that bitcoin is a rat poison, you can revert the meaning of it and put it through the fiat and traditional system.

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on May 02, 2022, 05:37:14 PM

It's true that the US won't allow Bitcoin to become a mainstream currency, and it's true that this fact severely limits how valuable Bitcoin can become, but no country in the world is able to stop ALL people from using Bitcoin, so there will always be some users and some demand. He also completely ignores the store of value use case, so with his logic gold should cost much less, because only a small share of gold is used in industry.

We can't expect all people to believe the capability of bitcoin or crypto market. Maybe, up until now, he is wondering where does bitcoin value come from? He couldn't see something backing this up so he doesn't believe in it. But for most crypto users, we are relying from the supply and demand concept about its price movement. Crypto users believe that it has future, hence, some are continuously stacking their satoshis. With the growth that we have seen from the past decade, we are not surprised while there are still newcomers in this market.

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It's true that the US won't allow Bitcoin to become a mainstream currency, and it's true that this fact severely limits how valuable Bitcoin can become, but no country in the world is able to stop ALL people from using Bitcoin, so there will always be some users and some demand. He also completely ignores the store of value use case, so with his logic gold should cost much less, because only a small share of gold is used in industry.

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Quote from: o48o on May 01, 2022, 07:05:04 PM

It baffless me why people are listening to old geezer when it comes to new technology. Obvously it will seem like evil ponzi to him, as he doesn't understand what has been invented. Most people didn't see the internet coming when first browsers came. It was too difficult to use without a proper infrastructure in place.

Just because Buffet made his own money, doesn't mean he understand what blockchain is solving.

Warren Buffett had established his reputation. Many people around the world greatly respect him because of his accomplishment in the financial industry. I also look up to him and there are lots of good insights he shared that often and help people that are in financial trouble. But it does not mean he is correct at all times. People's understanding is very limited and old people are too stubborn to accept new waves of technology. They adopt the saying :

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if it is not broken don't fix it

and with his methods that bring WB success, he believes that it isn't broken. But I think he missed the meaning of "outdated" just like how the era changes and technology evolve and being stuck with his outdated belief, he surely will have difficulty in adopting new waves of innovative ideas and methods that would have been fueled his old methods.

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Quote from: serjent05 on May 01, 2022, 03:10:10 PM

In a Berkshire Hathaway Annual Shareholder Meeting last Saturday, Warren Buffett gives his most expansive explanation for why he doesn’t believe in bitcoin.[1]
~snip~

Well, grandpa doesn't believe in bitcoin and doesn't believe. What's up with that? Did you want to get approval from him? Is your personal awareness that bitcoin is completely new and revolutionary in the world of finance not enough for you?

People like Warren Buffett are very far from understanding the technical bitcoin possibilities (I am 99.9% sure that he doesn't understand how BTC works.) and the economic potential of BTC due to their age, way of thinking and old habits. I am sure that many on this forum, like me, had no idea about the possibilities and advantages of bitcoin (in the early stages), but when they became aware of this, it radically changed their opinion about BTC. W. Buffett is unable to do this due to the fact that he lived and evolved in a traditional financial system (Wall Street).

Leave grandpa Warren alone and don't burden him with questions about bitcoin (he is completely ignorant of the matter). Buffett is not young for a long time and has lost his flexibility of thinking. Therefore, his opinion about BTC can't be changed. For all his authority on Wall Street, his opinions and views on BTC are completely irrelevant and unnecessary to crypto community. Even without him, we are perfectly aware and understand about bitcoin prospects.

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Quote from: _act_ on May 01, 2022, 03:29:50 PM

I have just browsed Warren Buffett's age, he was born on August 30, 1930. That is 91 years old.

We shouldn't worry about Old WB who has already enjoyed and had his fair share of life. IMO he has nothing to loose at such an age even if he doesn't buy the bitcoin and crypto Innovation in general.

The set of person's i worry for the most are those who have made him their financial role model and take his financial opinions seriously without scrutiny of which is good and not good for them. Truth is, as a result of his doubts about bitcoin and his distrust for the system, many persons will be influenced and share such opinions with him without thinking.

We should be careful about the opinions we take regardless of a person's status, do your research so your decision are directly influenced by your own opinions and not the opinion of others.

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Quote from: mindrust on May 02, 2022, 12:36:31 AM

Bitcoin isn’t trying to replace the Dollar. It is carrying the dollar. There is a whole world of difference. If it was the otherwise, then we would price things in bitcoins. But no, we still do price things in USD. The whole world do this. Not just the US.

Bitcoin cannot replace the Dollar or another currency, it is not even trying to do that because that is not why it was even made, it is a currency too, an alternative one, but different from the traditional kind because it is decentralized. What do you mean by it is carrying the Dollar? Bitcoin is not the only asset that is priced in dollar, the Dollar is a global currency and many assets are priced in the dollar too.

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Thanks for sharing this. So he doesn't want to get into the modern era or space that will power the future. Everything invented now would be helpful and be great with our technology. He is probably too old school to understand it and has a closed mind with adapting. He should grasp that BTC has a finite amount, so it's beneficial.

Maybe he should do something about it, though? Like, just try trading it or something like how he does it? Or is it a long-term plan to sway the market and buy more or something?

Quote from: serjent05 on May 01, 2022, 03:10:10 PM

I wonder if he is not born an American, would he say the same thing?

I don't think race is relevant to what he would say or do. It's him that is like that and no other reason for it. So I don't know why race is related to it, though.

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I no longer pay attention to what the WB or some of its associates say about Bitcoin because they have long presented their opinion, which has not changed to this day. What has changed from 2014 to today, why do some journalists persistently provoke WB with questions about Bitcoin? 8 years later we still have the same story, the same man and the same reactions, it’s one incredibly irritating déjà vu...

Quote from: https://www.cnbc.com/2014/03/14/buffett-blasts-bitcoin-as-mirage-stay-away.html

“Stay away from it. It’s a mirage, basically,”

WB does what it knows best, and while markets are in the red he buys in the tens of billions - because he knows that the best time to invest is when there is blood on the streets (I am referring to a statement by Baron Rothschild).

Quote from: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/2022/04/30/warren-buffett-talks-investments-berkshire-hathaway-annual-meeting/9599868002/

Buffett told shareholders Saturday that right after he wrote to them in his annual letter on Feb. 26 that he was having trouble finding anything to buy at attractive prices, Berkshire spent more than $40 billion on stocks over the next three weeks, including one day in early March when he spent $4.6 billion at the peak

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Bitcoin is a value transfer protocol in the virtual space. It is difficult for Warren Buffett to grasp this fact.

He is 91 years old. This is a man of the 20th century. Now is the 21st century. In the 20th century, there was no virtual space and total digitalization of society. In the 20th century, there was no need for Bitcoin, but now there is. In the 20th century, the US dollar was the world's global reserve currency. Now the world is geopolitically fragmented.

The world needs a single global reserve digital currency. This is Bitcoin.

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Now I understand what Buffett problem is regarding btc, he compares btc to apartment and farmland that produce returns base on physical usage but fails to understand that btc also produce such returns but in digital form. Btc help support in the current ongoing war between Russia and Ukraine, he can not ignore that part, and several other benefits for using btc, obviously he doesn't understand btc that's why he makes this type of statement.

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Quote from: serjent05 on May 01, 2022, 03:10:10 PM

~

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“Whether it goes up or down in the next year, or five or 10 years, I don’t know. But the one thing I’m pretty sure of is that it doesn’t produce anything,” Buffett said. “It’s got a magic to it and people have attached magics to lots of things.”

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“If you said… for a 1% interest in all the farmland in the United States, pay our group $25 billion, I’ll write you a check this afternoon,” Buffett said. ”[For] $25 billion I now own 1% of the farmland. [If] you offer me 1% of all the apartment houses in the country and you want another $25 billion, I’ll write you a check, it’s very simple. Now if you told me you own all of the bitcoin in the world and you offered it to me for $25 I wouldn’t take it because what would I do with it? I’d have to sell it back to you one way or another. It isn’t going to do anything. The apartments are going to produce rent and the farms are going to produce food.

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“Assets, to have value, have to deliver something to somebody. And there’s only one currency that’s accepted. You can come up with all kinds of things — we can put up Berkshire coins... but in the end, this is money,” he said, holding up a $20 bill. “And there’s no reason in the world why the United States government… is going to let Berkshire money replace theirs.”

He's a smart man but I don't know why he had to compare bitcoin (currency) to these types of assets. The better comparison would have been a mining farm and I'm sure he's heard of it. If he can have all the mining farms in the United States that solves 1, 2, or 10 blocks per month, would that change his view? He probably would.

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