Was the first PoS coin Peercoin...? | Bitcointalksearch.org

gjhiggins

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Quote from: BitcoinNational on March 28, 2016, 05:39:29 AM

re: time to start making alternative arrangements

tis smart to have plan B, redundancy ... looking forward to a blockchain based repo

build it and they will come

I was labouring under a misapprehension, I'd misinterpreted the “Bitcoin” commit comment as the committer's affiliation. Nevertheless, the identity of the originator of that particular DCMA takedown request is not revealed and I don't welcome either the opacity or what it implies.

Minimally it prevents checking the claim that Solidcoin2 was indeed the first “proper” PoS. Its features and clone heritage are now essentially indeterminable and the removal of the source code effectively prevents any remediation.

If anyone has a copy of the code from which they can report details of: genesis block hash, root merkle hash, nonce, ntime, starting diff, etc. I'd be grateful for a PM.

Cheers

Graham

BitcoinNational

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re: time to start making alternative arrangements

tis smart to have plan B, redundancy ... looking forward to a blockchain based repo

build it and they will come

YarkoL

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Quote from: gjhiggins on March 27, 2016, 08:30:16 AM

Github staff issuing DCMA takedowns of github repositories?

I take it you have looked at their DMCA policy?
https://help.github.com/articles/dmca-takedown-policy/

Seems to me to be sensible. You should
take into account that they themselves could be held as
liable were someone to to take infiringement up to courts.

That being said, if you know a decent alternative, do please
elucidate.

gjhiggins

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Quote from: bumbacoin on March 25, 2016, 10:05:53 AM

So, I want to clear something up that a lot of the crypto community seems to be unaware of. SolidCoin, not Peercoin, was the first currency to do proof of stake (PoS).

SolidCoin v2.0 was released October, 2011

https://github.com/solidcoin/solidcoin

https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2012-01-09-bitcoin.markdown

Github staff issuing DCMA takedowns of github repositories?

Ah well, it couldn't last for ever, time to start making alternative arrangements.

Cheers

Graham

K210

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Quote from: Abiky on March 26, 2016, 04:08:32 PM

Quote from: NUFCrichard on March 26, 2016, 04:03:09 AM

Shouldn't peercoin be big by now? I mean people could have invested and be staking constantly for years now.
It is easily tradeable, was once popular, mine/stakeable by all. I don't understand why it has been relegated to the lower levels of the Crypto world.

It was once in the top 5 cryptos, now it's 11th between Emercoin and Stellar!

Maybe it is because people haven't realized Peercoin's true potential and have been focusing on other hyped coins like Ethereum and Emercoin. Once the hype is over, I think people will be switching to good old alts like Litecoin and Peercoin. As for Peercoin, it seems to me that it was the very first coin that truly implemented the full POS algo. But sometimes I think that price is way undervalued for such crypto. Roll Eyes

Peercoin is one of the quieter altcoins. I think once all the hype and scams in altcoins die down peercoin will rise.

Abiky

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Quote from: NUFCrichard on March 26, 2016, 04:03:09 AM

Shouldn't peercoin be big by now? I mean people could have invested and be staking constantly for years now.
It is easily tradeable, was once popular, mine/stakeable by all. I don't understand why it has been relegated to the lower levels of the Crypto world.

It was once in the top 5 cryptos, now it's 11th between Emercoin and Stellar!

Maybe it is because people haven't realized Peercoin's true potential and have been focusing on other hyped coins like Ethereum and Emercoin. Once the hype is over, I think people will be switching to good old alts like Litecoin and Peercoin. As for Peercoin, it seems to me that it was the very first coin that truly implemented the full POS algo. But sometimes I think that price is way undervalued for such crypto. Roll Eyes

K210

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Quote from: Marc De Mesel on March 08, 2016, 08:17:32 PM

Is not the right question. What use is POS coin if it also has POW?

It's like an electric car with also a combustion engine.

Or a metal building with bricks as well.

The first fully electric car, the first fully metal building is what is interesting.

The first fully 100% POS coin was Nxt.

Peercoin will transition to full pos with V0.6 release sometime in the future. The reason peercoin has been part pow till this point is to ensure fair coin distribution. Once coins are fairly distributed pos phase can fully start.

BitcoinNational

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Quote from: cryptohunter on March 25, 2016, 10:36:21 AM

You're wrong. POW ensures far fairer distribution than unregulated ICO with zero transparency. ICO's here are a smoke screen you do not have a clue what could be happening behind the scenes. If the ICO was fully transparent then POW would no longer be needed. That will not happen in crypto anytime soon.

True. And more to the point the ninja miners made loot out of nearly nothing. I recall the 3 day mining periods, and shady pool ops. ICOs are more less a variation on this scam play. (In time reputable ICOs will be underwritten and have a par value).

I support long phase POWs that transition to POS ... but people are impatient so few models have been coded thus ... and we are talking the need to POW for 18-24 months.

BitcoinNational

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Quote from: Marc De Mesel on March 08, 2016, 08:17:32 PM

The first fully electric car, the first fully metal building is what is interesting.
The first fully 100% POS coin was Nxt.

@Marc
This is a verified fact?
Documents got'm?
------------

Personally in my mind NXT is not POS. It is a kinda of fuzzy thing. (Same for all the other asset platforms).

My opinion of the first pure POS is Black. (I can't site that as fact yet) ^{BC [ANN] February 16, 2014, 06:06:19 PM}

Also all POS have to go thru a POW phase (to make the coins).

But if memory serves right ... black, pink, asia, veri, panda, talk were the 'first' group (april may 2014) ... mintpal days ... hype and smoke ... and scam ... everyone wanted to be FIRST on the POS thing ... oddly the first working stake that I could personally verify .... wasn't until late summer ... you needed to acquire 'enough' of the overpriced much hyped to stake a block ... and there were boat loads of POS coins ninja mined and flooded out onto the market.

But for POW/POS hybrids ... solidcoin ... bumba seems to have the documented fact on that coin as starting POS. Peer proved it successful. But only 3 coins of the POW/POS hybrids variety have posted solid +$1m caps.

NUFCrichard

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Shouldn't peercoin be big by now? I mean people could have invested and be staking constantly for years now.
It is easily tradeable, was once popular, mine/stakeable by all. I don't understand why it has been relegated to the lower levels of the Crypto world.

It was once in the top 5 cryptos, now it's 11th between Emercoin and Stellar!

bumbacoin

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Quote from: K210 on March 25, 2016, 09:44:17 PM

Quote from: bumbacoin on March 25, 2016, 10:05:53 AM

"
So, I want to clear something up that a lot of the crypto community seems to be unaware of. SolidCoin, not Peercoin, was the first currency to do proof of stake (PoS).

SolidCoin v2.0 was released October, 2011
Peercoin was released 12 August, 2012

I am not claiming the proof of stake methods used in SolidCoin v2 and Peercoin are the same because they are not. In my opinion Peercoin has a much better implementation of proof of stake. Just because I released a working implementation of proof of stake first does not mean I invented it first. The idea first seemed to come up on the Bitcointalk forums in July 2011 https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/proof-of-stake-instead-of-proof-of-work-27787 . At least according to Bitcoin wiki.
"

https://microcash.org/threads/solidcoin-was-first-to-do-proof-of-stake.33/

Not sure if solidcoins implementation counts as proof of stake. From what i read solidcoins proof of stake basicly involved checking someones wallet for a fixed number of coins and if they had above a certain amount (1 million in solidcoins case) they had a chance to generate a block. This is in contrast to peercoins pos algo which is more complex with coindays,coinage and minimum and maximum stake window. Not to mention pos reward fixed at 1% of holdings per year. It looks like solidcoin was the first coin with a proof of stake like concept but peercoin was the first to implement a full fledged pos algo.

i had similar thoughts, but decided a reward is not a necessary component of either PoS or PoW.

it's more that anyone who generates the block has the necessary Proofs of either Stake or Work.

K210

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Quote from: bumbacoin on March 25, 2016, 10:05:53 AM

"
So, I want to clear something up that a lot of the crypto community seems to be unaware of. SolidCoin, not Peercoin, was the first currency to do proof of stake (PoS).

SolidCoin v2.0 was released October, 2011
Peercoin was released 12 August, 2012

I am not claiming the proof of stake methods used in SolidCoin v2 and Peercoin are the same because they are not. In my opinion Peercoin has a much better implementation of proof of stake. Just because I released a working implementation of proof of stake first does not mean I invented it first. The idea first seemed to come up on the Bitcointalk forums in July 2011 https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/proof-of-stake-instead-of-proof-of-work-27787 . At least according to Bitcoin wiki.
"

https://microcash.org/threads/solidcoin-was-first-to-do-proof-of-stake.33/

Not sure if solidcoins implementation counts as proof of stake. From what i read solidcoins proof of stake basicly involved checking someones wallet for a fixed number of coins and if they had above a certain amount (1 million in solidcoins case) they had a chance to generate a block. This is in contrast to peercoins pos algo which is more complex with coindays,coinage and minimum and maximum stake window. Not to mention pos reward fixed at 1% of holdings per year. It looks like solidcoin was the first coin with a proof of stake like concept but peercoin was the first to implement a full fledged pos algo.

cryptohunter

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Quote from: Marc De Mesel on March 08, 2016, 09:10:41 PM

Quote from: BrosephGordonLevitt on March 08, 2016, 08:20:02 PM

Yeah looks like most of them start out with a PoW phase initially to "encourage fairer distribution" but seeing as how I've never been and likely never will be a miner really, I feel a bit excluded. But that's on me of course, I'm excluding myself from the party so if I were better, I'd get to participate I think.

Yeah, many of these people are computer nerds and have an edge with 'fair' mining.

But do they offer any value to the coin with mining?

No, mining is poor way to secure the network. Instead of competing who has the strongest computer, you can just compete who has the most coins in order to decide who can validate a transaction. It's called POS.

By just using POS you have much cheaper (validation of) transactions, and much more secure network as 51% attacking POS is much harder than 51% attacking POW.

Thanks to kicking out POW fully, Nxt was able to build the first cryptoplatform.

You're wrong. POW ensures far fairer distribution than unregulated ICO with zero transparency. ICO's here are a smoke screen you do not have a clue what could be happening behind the scenes. If the ICO was fully transparent then POW would no longer be needed. That will not happen in crypto anytime soon and most would not want the ICO to be fully transparent anyway. Until then POW initial distribution is the only fair way.

In an ICO you have no idea how many people are really in it and what % of the coin they are buying. Hence coins with a small ico can essentially give themselves 50+% of the entire minting or more. Very large and widely advertised ICO are harder to rig but still much easier that POW with fair release protocol. A balance would be 50% ICO 50% POW with a long POW period and very widely advertised ICO with transparency as much as usernames on the board noted down like nem.

bumbacoin

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"
So, I want to clear something up that a lot of the crypto community seems to be unaware of. SolidCoin, not Peercoin, was the first currency to do proof of stake (PoS).

SolidCoin v2.0 was released October, 2011
Peercoin was released 12 August, 2012

I am not claiming the proof of stake methods used in SolidCoin v2 and Peercoin are the same because they are not. In my opinion Peercoin has a much better implementation of proof of stake. Just because I released a working implementation of proof of stake first does not mean I invented it first. The idea first seemed to come up on the Bitcointalk forums in July 2011 https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/proof-of-stake-instead-of-proof-of-work-27787 . At least according to Bitcoin wiki.
"

https://microcash.org/threads/solidcoin-was-first-to-do-proof-of-stake.33/

Spoetnik

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I think so but why not ask SunnyKing ?
Maybe send him a PM ?

BrosephGordonLevitt

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Quote from: Marc De Mesel on March 08, 2016, 09:10:41 PM

Quote from: BrosephGordonLevitt on March 08, 2016, 08:20:02 PM

Yeah looks like most of them start out with a PoW phase initially to "encourage fairer distribution" but seeing as how I've never been and likely never will be a miner really, I feel a bit excluded. But that's on me of course, I'm excluding myself from the party so if I were better, I'd get to participate I think.

Yeah, many of these people are computer nerds and have an edge with 'fair' mining.

But do they offer any value to the coin with mining?

No, mining is poor way to secure the network. Instead of competing who has the strongest computer, you can just compete who has the most coins in order to decide who can validate a transaction. It's called POS.

By just using POS you have much cheaper (validation of) transactions, and much more secure network as 51% attacking POS is much harder than 51% attacking POW.

Thanks to kicking out POW fully, Nxt was able to build the first cryptoplatform.

I actually agree with this. The PoW being necessary or the "easiest way" to secure it and then have a whole separate PoS implementation just seemed to be...kinda lazy to me with a lot of coins that say that. More like they didn't want to bother figuring a more appropriate and consistent solution for their needs, or weren't capable, dunno. I know PoS only becomes a potential issue when A. volume of coins is either super low, super depereciated in value for some reason, etc., where one person or group might feasibly buy up a majority of the supply without much cost, but even then I think the potential attack surface is limited by the implementation of the staking mechanism.

Either way, lots of cool stuff these days regardless and got new version of PPC running smoothly. They have yet to update Peerunity it seems, but should be in a few days.

Marc De Mesel

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Quote from: BrosephGordonLevitt on March 08, 2016, 08:20:02 PM

Yeah looks like most of them start out with a PoW phase initially to "encourage fairer distribution" but seeing as how I've never been and likely never will be a miner really, I feel a bit excluded. But that's on me of course, I'm excluding myself from the party so if I were better, I'd get to participate I think.

Yeah, many of these people are computer nerds and have an edge with 'fair' mining.

But do they offer any value to the coin with mining?

No, mining is poor way to secure the network. Instead of competing who has the strongest computer, you can just compete who has the most coins in order to decide who can validate a transaction. It's called POS.

By just using POS you have much cheaper (validation of) transactions, and much more secure network as 51% attacking POS is much harder than 51% attacking POW.

Thanks to kicking out POW fully, Nxt was able to build the first cryptoplatform.

BrosephGordonLevitt

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Quote from: Marc De Mesel on March 08, 2016, 08:17:32 PM

Is not the right question. What use is POS coin if it also has POW?

It's like an electric car with also a combustion engine.

Or a metal building with bricks as well.

The first fully electric car, the first fully metal building is what is interesting.

The first fully 100% POS coin was Nxt.

Yeah looks like most of them start out with a PoW phase initially to "encourage fairer distribution" but seeing as how I've never been and likely never will be a miner really, I feel a bit excluded. But that's on me of course, I'm excluding myself from the party so if I were better, I'd get to participate I think.

Marc De Mesel

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Is not the right question. What use is POS coin if it also has POW?

It's like an electric car with also a combustion engine.

Or a metal building with bricks as well.

The first fully electric car, the first fully metal building is what is interesting.

The first fully 100% POS coin was Nxt.

Abiky

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This is in fact interesting. All the time it was said that Peercoin was the first Proof of Stake coin, but it may seem that it wasn't what it claimed to be after all. However, when you look for information regarding miniblox or minibrix, nothing seems to appear on the web. It would have been cool to know about Peercoin's ancestor, but I guess that until now (since there isn't any info that proves otherwise) it seems that Peercoin would have been the first Proof of Stake coin.

Topic: Was the first PoS coin Peercoin...? (Read 1609 times)