Wasabi or Samourai ? | Bitcointalksearch.org

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on August 01, 2023, 01:26:27 PM

Why are they doing this voluntarily?

Because they want to protect their income stream against future regulations. So they chose to preemptively sell out their users rather than go down a more difficult route which might affect their profits.

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on August 01, 2023, 01:26:27 PM

I think they received a silent post like Truecrypt did, but Truecrypt decided to stop the project instead of installing a backdoor.

Which is what Wasabi should have done if they actually care about privacy in any way. They don't. They care about making money.

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on August 01, 2023, 01:26:27 PM

About JoinMarket:
It is extremely time-consuming and complicated, I hope they simplify it in this bull market, it has to be more user-friendly

I agree, and I've spoken about this before. JoinMarket, although great, simply isn't suitable for the majority of users as it is too complicated to set up. There is a great UI for JoinMarket called Jam (https://jamdocs.org/) which makes using JoinMarket easier, but the installation process is still not straightforward.

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on August 01, 2023, 01:26:27 PM

And Samourai should release a desktop version without needing any mobile app for it.
But well, there is Sparrow.

Yeah, Sparrow is a great piece of software.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 01, 2023, 09:25:46 AM

Wasabi admitted they are doing it voluntarily and preemptively.

Why are they doing this voluntarily?
I think they received a silent post like Truecrypt did, but Truecrypt decided to stop the project instead of installing a backdoor.
I can't give any other explanation why Wasabi does something like that.

I think Lightning would also be a good alternative, if you have your channels on private.
From Layer1 to Layer2 then from Chanel-A to Chanel-B from Chanel-B to Chanel-C and from Chanel-C to Layer1.

About JoinMarket:
It is extremely time-consuming and complicated, I hope they simplify it in this bull market, it has to be more user-friendly

And Samourai should release a desktop version without needing any mobile app for it.
But well, there is Sparrow.

Thank u and best regards

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on August 01, 2023, 06:53:18 AM

Isn't there a risk that Whirlpool and JoinMarket will come under the same pressure from the government as Wasabi did?

Sort of. With Samourai, yes, although their team are so vehemently opposed to surveillance I'd be very surprised if they capitulated, and they are also working on a decentralized coordinator which would bypass any such pressure. With JoinMarket, not really since there already is no centralized coordinator.

It's also worth pointing out that at present there are no government laws or regulations which forced Wasabi to surveil and censor their users. Wasabi admitted they are doing it voluntarily and preemptively.

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on August 01, 2023, 06:53:18 AM

Sparrow & Samourai Whirlpool share the same coordinator right?

Yes.

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on August 01, 2023, 06:53:18 AM

Does JoinMarket have its own coordinator or is it the same as Sparrow and Samourai's Whirlpool?

No. Each JoinMarket user runs the software themselves and coordinates their own coinjoins if they are the taker.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 01, 2023, 05:47:42 AM

Running your own coordinator is a different question to connecting to your own node. But given there are zero third party coordinators with any volume, and given both JoinMarket and Whirlpool both have good volume, then as you say - why would anyone bother?

Thank you, will definitely not use Wasabi, thought it would look different with your own node.

Isn't there a risk that Whirlpool and JoinMarket will come under the same pressure from the government as Wasabi did?

Sparrow & Samourai Whirlpool share the same coordinator right?
Does JoinMarket have its own coordinator or is it the same as Sparrow and Samourai's Whirlpool?

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on August 01, 2023, 04:50:44 AM

Would it make a difference if you connect Wasabi to your own node?

No difference. You can connect to your own node, but you will still be using their coordinator, which will be handing all your UTXOs and the fees you pay directly to blockchain analysis companies.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on August 01, 2023, 05:00:53 AM

Probably, yes. It's beyond the skill set of the average Wasabi user to disconnect from the default coordinator and connect to yours.

Running your own coordinator is a different question to connecting to your own node. But given there are zero third party coordinators with any volume, and given both JoinMarket and Whirlpool both have good volume, then as you say - why would anyone bother?

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on August 01, 2023, 04:50:44 AM

Would it make a difference if you connect Wasabi to your own node?

Probably, yes. It's beyond the skill set of the average Wasabi user to disconnect from the default coordinator and connect to yours. But, maybe it isn't that much difficult, I haven't tried. I only know they aren't heading into that direction, so why using their software?

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on August 01, 2023, 04:50:44 AM

Or does the violation of privacy still exist?

They claim that blacklisting doesn't exist if you connect to your own coordinator. However, considering the numerous lies and the fact that I haven't examined the source code, I'm taking that statement with a grain of salt.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 21, 2023, 03:27:10 AM

I've spoken at length about why no one should ever use Wasabi so I won't repeat all that here. Suffice to say, they directly fund blockchain analysis, they are anti-privacy, pro-surveillance, and pro-censorship. If you want privacy, Wasabi is the last place you should look.

Would it make a difference if you connect Wasabi to your own node?
Or does the violation of privacy still exist?

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Quote from: Jon_Hodl on July 25, 2023, 09:34:32 AM

Samourai is also currently in the process of decentralizing their coordinator so that users can select their own coordinator (not just Samourai) and even offer coordinator services to others which will enable anyone to generate revenue from coordinating CoinJoin txs.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to this. They already have a prototype running on testnet apparently: https://nitter.nl/SamouraiDev/status/1679092893171040256#m

Would be great to run your own coordinator over the same liquidity pool, kind of like how Joinmarket works. I wonder if their fee model will change if you are running your own coordinator?

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on July 20, 2023, 04:15:09 PM

Which one would you recommend more?

Hmm, on the spot I would prefer the Samourai, Reason reported by most of the users above. Haha, also I am having a look at how my fellows are promoting their personal favorite mixers. As Op seems like to the space I would recommend you to better focus on securing the funds rather than making them more private, haha, Privacy comes later to security.

Mixers are Privacy solutions if you want to service in the crypto market avoiding any sort of law enforcement on your asset Mixers can support you in achieving a 1 step higher Privacy to avoid such situations.

Haha after reading a few more posts from Op seems like he really needs the Mixer haha because he is asking for the cross-chain swap vs Centralized exchange deposit and than mixing the coins by some service. Buddy is showing his concern for privacy and I found myself wrong on the above comment of Privacy.

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I would recommend Samourai because it offers superior privacy by making every UTXO the same size, offers a larger anon set via endless remixes, and does not reuse addresses. Samourai is also currently in the process of decentralizing their coordinator so that users can select their own coordinator (not just Samourai) and even offer coordinator services to others which will enable anyone to generate revenue from coordinating CoinJoin txs. With enough coordinators competing, we could potentially see lower CoinJoin fees.

I would also like to point out that if you are using either method but you are not running your own node, you are trusting both your wallet as well as the CoinJoin coordinator with your xPub key which is completely antithetical to the whole idea of increased privacy via CoinJoin.

Not sure if you're interested but I actually wrote an article that is all about How To Use Bitcoin Anonymously that you might find useful if you are looking to increase the privacy of your bitcoin addresses and on-chain transactions.

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on July 22, 2023, 05:27:42 PM

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 22, 2023, 03:26:39 AM

What are you trying to achieve? Do have KYCed bitcoin which would want to unlink from your real identity? Are you trying to mix some other altcoin?

No, I don't have any KYC Bitcoins, I have accumulated Ethereum for years and now I want to keep my assets safe with Bitcoin.

The problem is, there is a lot over the last few years and Bisq / Hodl Hodl liquidity is to low and CoinJoin / Whirlpool / just takes too long.

So what would be better?
Send everything to Binance switch it to BTC and then CoinJoin even if it takes a long time...

Or better decentralized cross chain swap / bridge

If the OP wants to secure your assets to Bitcoin I think Binance and CoinJoin could be better choices in my opinion. However, the Relevant Decision to choose to use Binance and CoinJoin or choose a decentralized cross-chain swap/bridge is up to the user's priorities. Btw, If security and privacy are paramount, a decentralized, cross-chain solution may be preferable. the important thing is we are familiar with it.

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on July 23, 2023, 12:34:35 AM

I've always recommended Joinmarket over Whirlpool and Wasabi. Fewer dumb ways to leak your privacy but there are other tradeoffs and isn't the ideal service for inexperienced users.

Wasabi is inferior in privacy than Joinmarket (for obvious reasons), but speaking out of experience with Joinmarket, I've got to mention these two big downsides:

Expensive for market takers. The TL;DR of Joinmarket, is that there are always some makers online, so when a user who isn't a whale wants to mix their coins, they don't have to wait, but they have to pay the mining fee for all the makers' inputs. Makers don't pay their inputs, takers do, and when there are 9 to 12 inputs, few of which are theirs, then the cost of coinjoining can become really high.
Not exclusive to Joinmarket, but it isn't realistic to be a market maker if you don't own lots of money. Software does include a default of 12.5% chance of ignoring fidelity bonds, but it's really improbable to be picked if you're not going to see this seriously.

I have also talked about this in here: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/issues/1506

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on July 21, 2023, 08:20:59 AM

Do you think it would be better if I swap my ETH to btc via Cross Chain Swap?

Or switch ETH to BTC on Central Exchange and then CoinJoin/Whirlpool?

It would be best if you could swap etherium to monero and than monero to Bitcoin, you can even use decentralized exchange Bisq for that.
That way you won't have to use any centralized exchanges or CoinJoin/Whirlpool, but you can still do it later if you want.
In theory atomic swaps should also work fine for swapping eth-xmr-btc.

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on July 23, 2023, 05:28:10 PM

Is there anything against Decentralized Cross Chain Swap or Bridge?

Atomic Swap, AtomicDEX (now renamed to Komodo Wallet).

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Quote from: RickDeckard on July 23, 2023, 05:20:36 PM

I also wasn't aware of this, but in a recent discussion from apogio[1] I found out about JAM[1][3] which is a web interface for JoinMarket that tries to be more user friendly for less technical advanced users.

I still haven't got round to trying Jam because I have no need to given I've been running JoinMarket with no issues for years, but my understanding is that it still is not average user friendly in the same way that Samourai or Sparrow is. If you aren't running Umbrel, Raspiblitz, or similar (which average users aren't), then the manual installation is still too complicated.

For example: https://jamdocs.org/software/installation/#with-docker-image

There is a big knowledge difference required between these instructions and running a simple app.

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on July 23, 2023, 05:28:10 PM

Is there anything against Decentralized Cross Chain Swap or Bridge?
Or can I use something like THORChain?

If privacy is your goal, you will achieve absolute nothing doing this. Everything done via THORChain is fully public and traceable by anyone. THORChain even admit this themselves:

Quote from: https://nitter.net/THORChain/status/1510000092593340417

THORChain is not a mixer and does not give privacy. In fact, it takes it all away. Do not conflate the two functions.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 23, 2023, 12:48:44 AM

If your ETH was all purchased peer to peer and not linked to your KYC, then swapping it on a centralized exchange puts you back to square one. You can still do this and then mix it as above, or you can trade it peer to peer and just be patient while you wait on enough liquidity to swap it all.

Is there anything against Decentralized Cross Chain Swap or Bridge?
Or can I use something like THORChain?

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 23, 2023, 12:48:44 AM

Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on July 23, 2023, 12:34:35 AM

I've always recommended Joinmarket over Whirlpool and Wasabi. Fewer dumb ways to leak your privacy but there are other tradeoffs and isn't the ideal service for inexperienced users.

Yeah, this is the biggest problem with JoinMarket - it isn't just plug and play like Samourai or Sparrow.

@FinneysTrueVision: I also wasn't aware of this, but in a recent discussion from apogio[1] I found out about JAM[1][3] which is a web interface for JoinMarket that tries to be more user friendly for less technical advanced users. While I'm still using JoinMarket, JAM is looking rather good and I might give it a shot later when it leaves beta.

[1]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-privacy-address-reuse-5459335
[2]https://github.com/joinmarket-webui/jam
[3]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-privacy-address-reuse-5459335.msg62538568#msg62538568

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on July 22, 2023, 05:27:42 PM

Send everything to Binance switch it to BTC and then CoinJoin even if it takes a long time...

Or better decentralized cross chain swap / bridge

Well, it depends. Is your ETH already KYCed and linked to your identity? If it is, then sending it to a centralized exchange and swapping it for KYCed bitcoin won't make your privacy any worse (assuming you are happy with the security risk of sending your coins to a centralized exchange). From there you will need to mix your bitcoin using either coinjoin or a mixer.

If your ETH was all purchased peer to peer and not linked to your KYC, then swapping it on a centralized exchange puts you back to square one. You can still do this and then mix it as above, or you can trade it peer to peer and just be patient while you wait on enough liquidity to swap it all.

Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on July 23, 2023, 12:34:35 AM

I've always recommended Joinmarket over Whirlpool and Wasabi. Fewer dumb ways to leak your privacy but there are other tradeoffs and isn't the ideal service for inexperienced users.

Yeah, this is the biggest problem with JoinMarket - it isn't just plug and play like Samourai or Sparrow.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 22, 2023, 03:26:39 AM

There is literally no reason to ever subject yourself to blockchain analysis (and pay for the privilege!) by using Wasabi.

Blockchain surveillance companies, including Samourai's own closed source chain analysis, don't care if you want to be subjected to it or not. They are already analyzing coinjoin participants. The coordinator fee, which is where Wasabi's funds for blockchain analysis come from, can be entirely avoided.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 22, 2023, 03:26:39 AM

So just leave your coins for longer for unlimited free remixes, and you will certainly mix with other users running their own node.

Waiting for weeks to use your coins is impractical. How many of those users running their own node were using Samourai when they would still collect your xpub and the trusted node feature was only for broadcasting transactions? How many of those users will compromise other participants privacy by consolidating their toxic change due to the UTXO's being below the minimum amount accepted into whirlpool?

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 22, 2023, 03:26:39 AM

Or use JoinMarket instead.

I've always recommended Joinmarket over Whirlpool and Wasabi. Fewer dumb ways to leak your privacy but there are other tradeoffs and isn't the ideal service for inexperienced users.

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on July 22, 2023, 05:27:42 PM

No, I don't have any KYC Bitcoins, I have accumulated Ethereum for years and now I want to keep my assets safe with Bitcoin.

The problem is, there is a lot over the last few years and Bisq / Hodl Hodl liquidity is to low and CoinJoin / Whirlpool / just takes too long.

So what would be better?
Send everything to Binance switch it to BTC and then CoinJoin even if it takes a long time...

Or better decentralized cross chain swap / bridge

If you are concerned about your privacy, you'd not send them to Binance in order to swap it to Bitcoin, because even after swapping and using CoinJoin, Binance will still have the logs pertaining to your transaction, thus i don't think you should do it that way.

There are quite a lot of centralized exchanges feigning to be decentralized, thus you have to be careful to avoid them, for privacy you may send the ETH to Binance and then sell it for fiat, and then use fiat to buy Bitcoin in Bisq, or you can set your own order in Bisq for an ETH to Bitcoin trade.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 22, 2023, 03:26:39 AM

What are you trying to achieve? Do have KYCed bitcoin which would want to unlink from your real identity? Are you trying to mix some other altcoin?

No, I don't have any KYC Bitcoins, I have accumulated Ethereum for years and now I want to keep my assets safe with Bitcoin.

The problem is, there is a lot over the last few years and Bisq / Hodl Hodl liquidity is to low and CoinJoin / Whirlpool / just takes too long.

So what would be better?
Send everything to Binance switch it to BTC and then CoinJoin even if it takes a long time...

Or better decentralized cross chain swap / bridge

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Porfirii on July 21, 2023, 08:02:34 AM

but as long as data is only leaked in case of criminal offence (at least so far)

I'm not sure where you got that information from. Wasabi feed every single UTXO which attempts to coinjoin, regardless of criminality or not, directly to a blockchain analysis company for analysis and surveillance, with that data then stored, shared, and sold to other third parties.

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on July 21, 2023, 08:20:59 AM

Or switch ETH to BTC on Central Exchange and then CoinJoin/Whirlpool?

What are you trying to achieve? Do have KYCed bitcoin which would want to unlink from your real identity? Are you trying to mix some other altcoin?

Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on July 22, 2023, 01:31:33 AM

Even if you are using your own node you will still be coinjoining with users who aren't and whose entire transaction history is known by Samourai, thereby degrading your own privacy.

So just leave your coins for longer for unlimited free remixes, and you will certainly mix with other users running their own node. Or use JoinMarket instead. There is literally no reason to ever subject yourself to blockchain analysis (and pay for the privilege!) by using Wasabi.

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Quote from: Porfirii on July 21, 2023, 08:02:34 AM

Although what other colleagues said is correct, I'm still using Wasabi. I would keep sending satoshis even without coinjoin, if it wasn't for the reason that, sometimes, I don't want the receiver to know my identity in the forum or the balance I hold in my wallet. So, for me, the level of privacy Wasabi provides is enough.

Of course, I'm also reticent of chain analysis companies, and I might reconsider my preference for Wasabi, but as long as data is only leaked in case of criminal offence (at least so far), I'm in no hurry to change wallet provider because, although I'm pro-privacy, I'm of course against money-laundering.

I only report my own experience, and I'm not an expert, so please take everything I said with a pinch of salt.

I'm not a fan of blockchain analysis but I've also been using Wasabi instead. I only mix UTXOs smaller than 0.01 to avoid the coordinator fee. The dealbreaker with Samourai for me is that user xpubs are sent to their servers. Even if you are using your own node you will still be coinjoining with users who aren't and whose entire transaction history is known by Samourai, thereby degrading your own privacy.

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on July 20, 2023, 04:15:09 PM

Which one would you recommend more?

Permission to follow and listen to all the responses from great people in the forum. I have not used these two types of wallets. Later I got information that people are concerned about the privacy of wasabi.
I also found information that wasabi and samourai had clashes because of the zero transaction feature.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 21, 2023, 03:27:10 AM

I've spoken at length about why no one should ever use Wasabi so I won't repeat all that here. Suffice to say, they directly fund blockchain analysis, they are anti-privacy, pro-surveillance, and pro-censorship. If you want privacy, Wasabi is the last place you should look.

There are two main much better coinjoin implementations you can use, either Whirlpool or JoinMarket. Whirlpool is accessible via Samourai and Sparrow wallets, and JoinMarket from their own software here: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on July 20, 2023, 06:09:58 PM

How do the big whales do it?
I don't think they mix their millions with CoinJoin.

Some do. There is currently 8,300 BTC of UTXOs on Whirlpool. Lots more use centralized mixers instead.

Do you think it would be better if I swap my ETH to btc via Cross Chain Swap?

Or switch ETH to BTC on Central Exchange and then CoinJoin/Whirlpool?

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on July 21, 2023, 03:16:52 AM

How do the big whales do it?
I don't think they mix their millions with CoinJoin.

You'll never know if they're using mixing services but just think of it that usually, if they don't want to get tracked then they are aware of the existence of mixing services.

Whether coinjoin or whirlpool or any other mixing services. But does it makes sense for them to mix their coins? Because if they're a public figure, it's up to them to use or not to use it.

Is that even a big matter to think of? Because for me, I'll just go along with the market and no need to think about whether they mix or not.

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Although what other colleagues said is correct, I'm still using Wasabi. I would keep sending satoshis even without coinjoin, if it wasn't for the reason that, sometimes, I don't want the receiver to know my identity in the forum or the balance I hold in my wallet. So, for me, the level of privacy Wasabi provides is enough.

Of course, I'm also reticent of chain analysis companies, and I might reconsider my preference for Wasabi, but as long as data is only leaked in case of criminal offence (at least so far), I'm in no hurry to change wallet provider because, although I'm pro-privacy, I'm of course against money-laundering.

I only report my own experience, and I'm not an expert, so please take everything I said with a pinch of salt.

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In addition to what was mentioned above, but both of them work on different OS.
You can download Samourai Wallet on the Android operating system, while Wasabi is available on several operating systems, not including Android.

It is true that both of them identify themselves as privacy products, but you have alternatives that can work with Whirlpool or JoinMarket, or even use mixers that claim to work on coinjoin, and then you may be able to hide your identity in general.

But if you want to hide your identity professionally, it is better to learn more, as anonymity is more complicated than using a mixer or to use privacy currencies such as Monero.

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Quote from: Lucius on July 21, 2023, 05:49:24 AM

Learn to edit quoted posts because what you're doing looks really ugly and makes no sense at all.

I agree. OP can trim quotes manually or with user script. Between them, I see trimming it manually is better.

Bitcointalk - Post formatting
User Script: Automatically remove nested quotes v1.1.1

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on July 20, 2023, 04:15:09 PM

Which one would you recommend more?

Go for Samourai wallet if you're more interested on your privacy, Wasabi is no longer reliable as ledger because of this privacy bridge on users, you wouldn't go decentralized and yet be under the surveillance system of the centralized authorities, so if you're interested more in privacy and security then go for Samourai wallet, Wasabi is no more invoke, it was then they have this trust confided in them but not anymore.

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Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on July 20, 2023, 06:09:58 PM

How do the big whales do it?
I don't think they mix their millions with CoinJoin.

Who says big whales even need to mix their coins? If they need it, then they use all those publicly known methods like everyone else.

Learn to edit quoted posts because what you're doing looks really ugly and makes no sense at all.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 21, 2023, 03:27:10 AM

I've spoken at length about why no one should ever use Wasabi so I won't repeat all that here. Suffice to say, they directly fund blockchain analysis, they are anti-privacy, pro-surveillance, and pro-censorship. If you want privacy, Wasabi is the last place you should look.

There are two main much better coinjoin implementations you can use, either Whirlpool or JoinMarket. Whirlpool is accessible via Samourai and Sparrow wallets, and JoinMarket from their own software here: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver

If you did not say this today, I would not know that Wasabi is as bad as this. At first when I read the op question, I was planning to choose Wasabi to Samourai because I have not heard of Samourai but this made me to do some research on it and the result is very much position. The review was conducted early this year, though I don't know if there is another review before this one. And from what see here on the review article. Samourai is more better than Wasabi Wallet. Thank you for this information.

You can see more information on the Samourai wallet here.
Samourai Wallet Review 2023

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 21, 2023, 03:27:10 AM

I've spoken at length about why no one should ever use Wasabi so I won't repeat all that here. Suffice to say, they directly fund blockchain analysis, they are anti-privacy, pro-surveillance, and pro-censorship. If you want privacy, Wasabi is the last place you should look.

There are two main much better coinjoin implementations you can use, either Whirlpool or JoinMarket. Whirlpool is accessible via Samourai and Sparrow wallets, and JoinMarket from their own software here: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on July 20, 2023, 06:09:58 PM

How do the big whales do it?
I don't think they mix their millions with CoinJoin.

Some do. There is currently 8,300 BTC of UTXOs on Whirlpool. Lots more use centralized mixers instead.

What are some centralized mixers ?
when it comes to mixers, i'm worried that they might eventually make an exit scam....
It's so annoying that there are no DEX swaps for Bitcoin like uniswap or pancakeswap....

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Wasabi takes a fee from you and reinvests it by working with blockchain analysis corporations so they can find out whether you deserve to enjoy privacy once again or not. You’re paying to be spied on. If you think it’s worth it, give it a shot. I wouldn’t. Go with anyone else, Wasabi’s down there at the bottom of the list.

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 18711

I've spoken at length about why no one should ever use Wasabi so I won't repeat all that here. Suffice to say, they directly fund blockchain analysis, they are anti-privacy, pro-surveillance, and pro-censorship. If you want privacy, Wasabi is the last place you should look.

There are two main much better coinjoin implementations you can use, either Whirlpool or JoinMarket. Whirlpool is accessible via Samourai and Sparrow wallets, and JoinMarket from their own software here: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on July 20, 2023, 06:09:58 PM

How do the big whales do it?
I don't think they mix their millions with CoinJoin.

Some do. There is currently 8,300 BTC of UTXOs on Whirlpool. Lots more use centralized mixers instead.

Bitcoiner2023

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 49

Quote from: boyptc on July 20, 2023, 06:37:30 PM

I have used wasabi but not with samourai. But then, there's this thread about Wasabi that you might want to see.

--> https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/petition-to-remove-wasabi-from-recommendations-of-bitcoinorg-5457560 "Petition to remove Wasabi from recommendations of bitcoin.org"

It is an interesting topic since it's one of your choice and you may want to proceed with it. But take a good read about it first and maybe that will change your picking decision and you may go with samourai or any other that's being suggested above.

Quote from: MusaMohamed on July 20, 2023, 09:00:43 PM

Wasabi wallet is like Brave browser and Ledger wallet.

Wasabi wallet
The best privacy online is one of many phrases about privacy at the landing page of Brave.com.

They break their own words by KYC if users want to claim BRAVE token rewards.
What is "KYC" and how does it fit into Brave Rewards?

Ledger wallet

Ledger wallet claims to provide wallets for self-custodians. Recently they provided Ledger Recover which will provide a custodian service for your wallet backup and recovery. They claim that it is safe but do you trust them because they should not provide that service to their customers. Using the service, their customers are no longer non-custodians.

Quote

These encrypted fragments are securely sent to three independent providers – Ledger, Coincover, and EscrowTech that will store them in Hardware Security Modules (HSMs)

How this works?

Quote

...

STEP 3: These encrypted fragments are securely sent to three independent providers – Ledger, Coincover, and EscrowTech that will store them in Hardware Security Modules (HSMs). Each encrypted fragment is useless on its own. When you request access to your wallet, two of the three encrypted fragments will be sent back to your Ledger device, reassembling them to build your private key.

....

Between Wasabi wallet and Samourai wallet, I choose Samourai wallet.

Quote from: Faisal2202 on July 21, 2023, 12:58:43 AM

One thing i have learned so far from this thread is Wasabi is not a good option just because of the interference of Centralized authorities with it. And their is no such thing with Samourai? Right? Because i am also new and this thread seems interesting. So i thought i should give them a try. From now on i will try not to use Wasabi but amid of centralization is there any other flaws in Wasabi.

Like, i assume the security level (encryption level in technicality) might be same of both wallets so only difference is of centralization? is that true.

i haven't used any of them till yet but i am also struggling to find one. First i thoguht of Electrum but to use that we need up to date information about it like when to update and from where to update. The last update phishing link scam has still scared me. So, now, i came to know about Samourai, Blue wallet, Math wallet. What are your guys view. i know i should make another thread on it but i think my question is related to OP's thread.

Quote from: ImThour on July 21, 2023, 01:01:43 AM

I would prefer Samourai, they have many great products in their bucket and the one you are in need is their Whirlpool project. https://samouraiwallet.com/whirlpool
You can also use coin mixers which are available in the market nowadays. Samourai also have a wallet which keeps your transaction private and safe, as they say it on their website too.

How do the big whales do it?
I don't think they mix their millions with CoinJoin.

ImThour

copper member

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1609

Bitcoin Bottom was at $15.4k

I would prefer Samourai, they have many great products in their bucket and the one you are in need is their Whirlpool project. https://samouraiwallet.com/whirlpool
You can also use coin mixers which are available in the market nowadays. Samourai also have a wallet which keeps your transaction private and safe, as they say it on their website too.

Faisal2202

hero member

Activity: 1386

Merit: 513

Payment Gateway Allows Recurring Payments

One thing i have learned so far from this thread is Wasabi is not a good option just because of the interference of Centralized authorities with it. And their is no such thing with Samourai? Right? Because i am also new and this thread seems interesting. So i thought i should give them a try. From now on i will try not to use Wasabi but amid of centralization is there any other flaws in Wasabi.

Like, i assume the security level (encryption level in technicality) might be same of both wallets so only difference is of centralization? is that true.

i haven't used any of them till yet but i am also struggling to find one. First i thoguht of Electrum but to use that we need up to date information about it like when to update and from where to update. The last update phishing link scam has still scared me. So, now, i came to know about Samourai, Blue wallet, Math wallet. What are your guys view. i know i should make another thread on it but i think my question is related to OP's thread.

MusaMohamed

sr. member

Activity: 966

Merit: 306

Wasabi wallet is like Brave browser and Ledger wallet.

Wasabi wallet
The best privacy online is one of many phrases about privacy at the landing page of Brave.com.

They break their own words by KYC if users want to claim BRAVE token rewards.
What is "KYC" and how does it fit into Brave Rewards?

Ledger wallet

Ledger wallet claims to provide wallets for self-custodians. Recently they provided Ledger Recover which will provide a custodian service for your wallet backup and recovery. They claim that it is safe but do you trust them because they should not provide that service to their customers. Using the service, their customers are no longer non-custodians.

Quote

These encrypted fragments are securely sent to three independent providers – Ledger, Coincover, and EscrowTech that will store them in Hardware Security Modules (HSMs)

How this works?

Quote

...

STEP 3: These encrypted fragments are securely sent to three independent providers – Ledger, Coincover, and EscrowTech that will store them in Hardware Security Modules (HSMs). Each encrypted fragment is useless on its own. When you request access to your wallet, two of the three encrypted fragments will be sent back to your Ledger device, reassembling them to build your private key.

....

Between Wasabi wallet and Samourai wallet, I choose Samourai wallet.

boyptc

hero member

Activity: 3024

Merit: 680

★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!

I have used wasabi but not with samourai. But then, there's this thread about Wasabi that you might want to see.

--> https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/petition-to-remove-wasabi-from-recommendations-of-bitcoinorg-5457560 "Petition to remove Wasabi from recommendations of bitcoin.org"

It is an interesting topic since it's one of your choice and you may want to proceed with it. But take a good read about it first and maybe that will change your picking decision and you may go with samourai or any other that's being suggested above.

Bitcoiner2023

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 49

Quote from: _act_ on July 20, 2023, 04:18:50 PM

If you do not want chainanalysis and the United States government to be spying on your bitcoin transaction, it is better you use the Whirlpool on Samurai which I think is what you are asking for.

Quote from: CryptSafe on July 20, 2023, 04:23:53 PM

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on July 20, 2023, 04:15:09 PM

Which one would you recommend more?

I think the both are convenient to use but for more secured transaction, you can go for samurai if you think your transactions are not secured. If you feel a mixer could help then yomix could be of great help.

Quote from: Zaguru12 on July 20, 2023, 04:51:37 PM

I think censorship of transactions done by wasabi has actually made people to avoid it. Before the censorship the answer would have been it but right now people are turning towards Whirlpool which is what Samourai uses. So for clear privacy sake stay away from wasabi. Another suggestion would be Sparrow which uses Whirlpool too.

Go through this thread to read what prominent members of the forum think of them

How do the big whales do it?
I don't think they mix their millions with CoinJoin.

Zaguru12

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 952

I think censorship of transactions done by wasabi has actually made people to avoid it. Before the censorship the answer would have been it but right now people are turning towards Whirlpool which is what Samourai uses. So for clear privacy sake stay away from wasabi. Another suggestion would be Sparrow which uses Whirlpool too.

Go through this thread to read what prominent members of the forum think of them

CryptSafe

sr. member

Activity: 728

Merit: 421

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on July 20, 2023, 04:15:09 PM

Which one would you recommend more?

I think the both are convenient to use but for more secured transaction, you can go for samurai if you think your transactions are not secured. If you feel a mixer could help then yomix could be of great help.

_act_

legendary

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1298

Lightning network is good with small amount of BTC

If you do not want chainanalysis and the United States government to be spying on your bitcoin transaction, it is better you use the Whirlpool on Samurai which I think is what you are asking for.

Bitcoiner2023

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 49

Which one would you recommend more?

Topic: Wasabi or Samourai ? (Read 554 times)