Topic: Petition to remove Wasabi from recommendations of bitcoin.org (Read 3118 times)

Y'all need to chill.

To every body who has to say something against Wasabi,

But didn't you hear Peter Todd?

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Jokes aside.  Can any body enlighten me and briefly explain who in the world is this Peter Todd and why does Kruw feel the urgent need to mention him in over 50 percent of his recent posts?  I have been looking for over 20 minutes on both Bitcoin Talk and the Internet and all I can find is sexual misconduct allegations drama and that he was a Bitcoin Core / Tor developer who is now disgraced for the reason I just mentioned.

You are lying, and this is not the first time you've been caught lying about address reuse being a "flaw" in the software.  Peter Todd explicitly debunked this accusation:

Both are true. Yes, Wasabi is partnering with blockchain analysis company and buying the notion that coins are unequal, so they cannot be trusted. And yes, their software is flawed. I don't know with certainty if it's more of a back end or front end issue (probably both), but we frequently notice coinjoin reusing addresses in both inputs and outputs.

Here's another reason for not trusting Wasabi folks: they are assholes. Kruw has accused nearly every participant of a mixer signature campaign as guilty for coin theft with absolutely no evidence. nopara73 is doxxing their competitors on Twitter. Max Hillebrand is one big of a hypocrite. Any sane person reading the open letter to Wasabi team can make out they're running a clown show.

What in the dystopia is this!

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For all we know, you could be the biggest serial killer.  Why point one finger to one serial killer without thinking that there are other serial killers that possibly could be roaming free?

With this mind set we can all give up on every thing.  Including Bitcoin.  Who knows the REAL reason Bitcoin was invented for!  Maybe we will only live to find out and it will be too late by then!  But what if it was not.

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What we are doing now is trying to hold on to the entities who SEEM not to work with our enemies.  Many of them will give up.  Many of them will collaborate with the enemy.  All we have left is hope and a few who still did not give up or trait us.

Does any of us have 100 percent belief that any of the Mixers available today is 100 percent clean and working for the people and not against the people?  I do not.  And I think it is foolish to resort to trust.  I only think by combining the diverse ways of Privacy we do get to a point where it is almost impossible to assimilate enough information to link the Bitcoin I had before with the Mixed, Coin Joined, Atomic Swapped Bitcoin.  Maybe the Mixer we used was a honey pot.  Alright.  But then we have two more spoofing techniques that are strong and build strong Privacy for our Coins.

For all we know, our Privacy is ruined already no matter what we do.  We could be trying our hardest to gain Privacy while there could be publicly unknown technology ruining it even with the best Coin Joins available.  Maybe there is a server underground that records and transcribes every single word and sound I have ever made into an immense record.  That does not mean I will ever give up based on assumptions only.

Wasabi has proved us and our suspicions right.  They DO work with the biggest Bitcoin Privacy enemy.  We are witnessing an entity who is trying to convince us that our enemy is our friend.  Either we continue declining to work with entities like Wasabi or we start losing the battle.  If the supposedly largest Bitcoin Privacy supporter says there is good and bad Bitcoin and we agree then we are screwed!  So is Bitcoin!

It means from tomorrow on we can start separating the Bitcoins we have into two sides, one of them worth less than the other!  It means we are never going to have the freedom Bitcoin was to give us.  Because if Wasabi starts pushing a Tainted Bitcoin narrative giving false hope for real Privacy and the most Privacy oriented users agree with them, the average user of Bitcoin will be much easier to fool.

Do not give up and do not treat every fighter as a traitor.  Wasabi showed they are traitors.  Join Market has not yet.  Monero has not yet.  Who the hell knows who falls next, but as long as we have even ONE alternative there is still hope!

No, o_e_l_e_o has been lying about the privacy of Wasabi regardless of which coordinator you use:




He's not just attacking Wasabi either, he's opposed to ANY open source software that allows you to coinjoin with full privacy:

He doesn't say that the code of Wasabi's open-source software is bad, he says that it's bad to use Wasabi's coordinator because you partner with BA companies. If I run my own coordinator without partnering BA analysis companies and won't filter transactions, then yes, problem will be solved. No one says that the open-source of project is bad. I think it's clear what's the issue here and why do you pretend like there doesn't exist any issue. Move away from BA companies and no one will complain anything about Wasabi if it remains open-source and transparent.

Anyone could be the enemy. The coinjoin service which is pro-government, pro-censorship, and pro-surveillance is the enemy.

You mean like Wasabi working with blockchain analysis companies? I would consider both of those enemies of bitcoin.

Um. What kind of twisted reasoning is this? Just because one such entity is funding blockchain analysis, it doesn't mean we have to treat everyone as guilty until proven otherwise. Everyone's innocent, until they are known to be working with the enemy.

There are a host variety of solutions for fungibility, from lightning and Schnorr signatures to not using coinjoin and mixing services which buy taint.

If WasabiWallet is the enemy, then I believe all of those CoinJoin services could be the enemy.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

We can't point one finger to one entity without thinking that there are other entities that possibly could be working with them.

Isn't there an update for the Lightning Network that makes it impossible to distinguish between a regular Bitcoin transaction and a transaction that opens a Lightning channel? That could be a solution to help preserve Bitcoin's fungibility.

🤔

Had what explained?  Provide quotes.  No one ever provided a single flaw in WabiSabi coinjoins, multiple users have merely been repeating your debunked report of "address reuse".


Fact:  If you use a deterministic seed on two different devices, they will generate and use the same exact addresses.

Fact:  Wasabi is open source software, it's not government controlled, it's user controlled.


It's clear you have no issue lying to defeat "the enemy" by making false claims about flaws existing in open source privacy software.  Fortunately, Bitcoin privacy experts such as Peter Todd directly addressed your lies about address reuse: https://youtu.be/oPNFdhZUGmk?t=162

Just lol.

You've had the same things explained to you dozens of times by multiple users over many months. Your continued lies and denial of facts is simply evidence of your malicious intent to drive bitcoin to a government controlled system.

Wasabi is the enemy.

I didn't need to appeal to authority the first time I explained to you that address reuse was caused by people using deterministic seeds on two different devices:



Now Peter Todd has given you the exact same explanation.  Didn't you hear him? Are you going to accuse Peter Todd of being corrupt and paid off like BlackHatCoiner did? Or, will you finally stop attacking open source Bitcoin privacy projects and admit there isn't a "flaw" like you claimed?

You only need to reveal one address when it used on both sides of the transaction.

I still haven't figured out what you think you are achieving by constantly appealing to authority.

Argue semantics and evade the questions all you want. It's quite clear no one here is attacking open source software nor privacy software. They are attacking Wasabi, which is categorically not privacy software.

Oh, so Monero isn't a shitcoin anymore? I just can't keep up with your goalposts.

So, just to clarify:  

You do not create "change outputs" with WabiSabi, your entire balance is turned completely private so you do not ever reveal two addresses belong to you.


You are lying.  Changing the derivation path of Whirlpool's change output doesn't improve its privacy.


You mean "According to Peter Todd":  https://youtu.be/oPNFdhZUGmk?t=162

You continue to dodge the fact that Bitcoin experts have already debunked this false claim and continue to attack open source Bitcoin privacy software.


Joinmarket, Jam, and Monero do work for privacy.  Stop trying to whitewash Samourai/Sparrow's Whirlpool and your "mixing site" scams by putting them alongside working privacy projects like Joinmarket, Jam, and Monero.

So, just to clarify:

A user creates a small change output using Samourai. Samourai clearly displays this change output before the transaction is signed, and gives the user ample opportunity to change it if they want. The user is happy with the size of the change output and goes ahead with the transaction. This change output is deliberately segregated in to a different account and so no privacy is lost. According to Kruw, this is a critical flaw in Samourai: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63134894

A user reuses an address on both sides of a Wasabi coinjoin. Outputs from the coinjoin land on the exact same address as the inputs they came from, resulting in a complete and critical loss of privacy. According to Kruw, this is all the users fault and has nothing to do with Wasabi.

Lol. The double standards are off the charts.

According to Kruw:
Samourai - doesn't work
Sparrow - doesn't work
Whirlpool - doesn't work
JoinMarket - doesn't work
Jam - doesn't work
Monero - doesn't work
Atomic swaps - don't work
P2P swaps/trades - don't work
Mixers - don't work

Wasabi - perfect, infallible

Isn't it amazing how thousands of developers of dozens of different privacy projects are all so incredibly wrong, and only the pro-surveillance, pro-censorship, pro-government sell outs are the ones who got it right.



By directly funding blockchain analysis, by directly supporting and spreading the concept of tainted coins, by attacking bitcoin's fungibility, and by censoring users, Wasabi are aiding and abetting the government take over of bitcoin. This kind of malicious behavior is now spreading to mining pools, which are using the exact same logic and methods as Wasabi to censor transactions from their blocks entirely. Soon enough, only government approved transactions will be allowed to me mined at all. We are marching down the road to bitcoin becoming a government permissioned network, and Wasabi are leading the charge.

Wasabi are enemies of bitcoin.

For this reason, bitcoin.org should completely scrub all traces of Wasabi from the site.

Right.  But you forget something.  Kruw thinks Blockchain Analysis has God like properties and is somehow indisputable.  It does not matter that I and o_e_l_e_o can swap Private Keys privately and if o_e_l_e_o has done something dirty the Blockchain Analysis puts ME on the Black List thinking it was me who did it.

To Wasabi this is impossible to dispute.  It shows that only two Transactions ago my Address made a drug deal so it HAD to be me.  How dare you even think Blockchain Analysis gives inaccurate results and is only guess work!  You big Privacy enemy!

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You are actively spitting in Moneros face denying that Monero <> Bitcoin Atomic Swaps are a way to Privacy even if it is one of the best options we have,
Just like spitting into Samourais face, into Join Markets face and into the face of every single Bitcoin Talk member who complains about your Surveillance supportive product.

Forget o_e_l_e_o has a long history of avidly supporting your product.  Forget pretty much every body here used to support it.  Now we are Privacy enemies.  Forget we all came here to constructively complain and help Wasabi return to their old track.

The Wasabi team is acting like some sort of Prophets.  We are all now enemies to Wasabi because they are our enemy.

To Wasabi team.  You are a disgrace.

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We also want you to answer all the unanswered questions.  But you never do.  Ironically, we could all start doing the same and skip every question.  This topic is already a hell hole.  Imagine what it would be like if every body acted the same way you do and dodged every single legitimate question and replied with deceiving statements and word twisting.

If you want an artsy discussion, some sort of contest of word twists and deception, then just fuck off straight to the Off Topic board.  Either we all have a legitimate discussion or act with maximum stupidity.

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Imagine Wasabi was a billion Dollar drink company and they acted this way about a hated change in their product line.  How dare you NOT like our new recipe!  Fuck off!  We are the BEST, you are all paid by competition!  Hmph!

I answered your question over and over already: Someone reusing their addresses is not a "flaw in coinjoins".  A coinjoin makes it possible to move money privately from one address to another.  If someone moves money from one address to the same address, that's not a flaw in the coinjoin.

Bitcoin experts like Peter Todd recognize this, but for some reason you still are miseducating people by telling them the opposite and accusing Peter Todd of being paid off with no evidence.  You really ruined your reputation by attacking open source Bitcoin privacy software with accusations of being flawed and attacking open source Bitcoin Core developers with accusations of them being corrupt.  It's truly despicable that you resort to wrongfully accusing innocent people and innocent projects in order to get people to lose their money to your custodian sites.  Find a new way to make money besides stealing it.


If you think that the coordinator's service can be improved, then why don't you run your own coordinator?  All the software is open source.


No response I see.  There are no weaknesses in WabiSabi coinjoins, you can't defeat total privacy: https://mempool.space/tx/d465033214fd2309dcce5a90c45fcaa788aa4394ee36debe07aad8d8a37907d2

I see. Repeating the soundbites. Alright, I'll take this as a "I cannot answer any of your questions".

Wasabi users fucking up with their anonymity individually isn't Wasabi's fault. But, coordinator fucking up with users' anonymity is a Wasabi's fault. Wasabi transactions listed in KYCP (except the post-mix tx) are all coinjoin, ergo approved by the coordinator.

I mean, if you can't tell the problem with reusing addresses in both inputs and outputs during coinjoin, then I'll just leave it here. I give up. As it turns out, you can't beat an idiot.

BlackHatCoiner, didn't you hear Peter Todd?  https://youtu.be/oPNFdhZUGmk?t=162


Why would the coordinator disallow address reuse?...


What "other weaknesses" are you talking about?