Topic: Watch out for Kano pool's 100% fees. - page 2. (Read 2829 times)

Besides from not informing mininum hashrate, they do not inform that if you don't state an address right away you will be DONATING btc to kano. Kano got some btc from me that way. And once contacting him, he was arrogant as usual.
These little things make me wanna leave kano. But unfortunately I cannot lie - I find their fee the best.
I'd love to mine at ckpool. I really like the 0% fee + block generation payout. The problem is I cannot trust them after ck threw away MONTHS of work over "code exploding" once a diff to find a block was found. He didn't even explain what happened nor grantee if it would happen again. Because of that, that pool is dead to me now unfortunately.

Till I find something better, I'm forced to stay at kano's

Do you mind if I ask your total actual payments from using Kano pool?  I'm trying to figure out the percentage of those payments the unpaid amount represents.  Also, what Th/s did you mine at when at his pool?  Thanks.

I haven't mined there for a while but I decided to go look at my payments page and see how much dust I had collecting out there...turned out to be 95 payments worth... 0.00196058 or about $6.50. I'm surprised he still hasn't paid out the dust to the users after all this time, especially given the substantial increase in value.

That is incorrect, those dust payments accumulate... in his wallet.  They've sat there for three years.  He 'occasionally manually pays some of them out' as he sees fit, or doesn't, shrug.

Kanopool subsidizes 'low fees' by ripping off the weakest miners in the pool.  The biggest members of the pool are indirectly profiting from the theft of what is due to the smaller contributors, in the form of lower fees for them.  It's 0.9% for the bigger, it's up to 100% for smaller.  Maybe that's why they have such glowing statements in his support... he's basically bribing them.

Ok, so for what it's worth, here's my assumption from what I know of the man:

Kano will aggregate your dust payouts until they cross the non-dust payout threshold, then pay you. Pandering to anything below that would be "ridiculous, unsustainable marketing hoo-ha" if my spidey-sense is correct.

I suggest that you do not succumb to your knee-jerk reactions of "scam". Kano is direct and concise, even prickly at times, not to be mistaken for "incorrect", "unreasonable" or "scammy". Kano is always precise (to a fractional satoshi in my experience), and overtly so.

Keep away from the pool is the best action you can take.

In one point I can agree with you:
It should be diplayed at wich amount of hashrate it is possible to mine without getting into a dust trap at the pool.

BUT:
I would never call him a thief!
He got that "dust" accounted on every user, you can see it if you look
in your account.
And he allways say he will pay it out to the user, if he ever finished the code for doing that automaticly.
As far as I know, Kano is preparing each Payout manualy, so it will be a big work for him to do also each dust!
During my stay at Kanopool I was happy, I chat with Kano and it was nice even we do not allways share the
same ideas. He could be rough, ok, that is Kano as we like him.
So simply I accept this and leave, because my hashrate is to low, but not because I do not trust Kano.

maybe later I will correct my bad english, so sorry about any typo.

Actually at today's rates, 16 BTC is $55k.  It doesn't matter if 'at the time' it wasn't much.  It's a lot now.  After three years of skimming off the top, it's made Kano quite a bit of money.

Frankly I have no idea what you're talking about with dark market drug money.  That's a very labored analogy.

And I already acknowledged that with PPLNS, Antpool keeps transaction fees, and that it's greedy and that advertising 0% rates for PPLNS is less than honest of them.  They do pay transaction fees out with PPS+ however, but then that has a 4% fee and it's PPS based so it's really totally different.  How Bitmain is ripping people off should be a totally different thread and I'd be happy to jump on that bandwagon, but this thread is talking about how Kano is robbing people.   Keeping those dust payments amounts to an unstated fee and it's heavily biased against people with the weakest hardware.  The less your miner makes, the more Kano keeps for himself.

Have you noticed how friendly Kano is if you're complying with his scam?  All you have to do is fork over those dust payments, help him make money with his pool, and talk smack about every other pool, and he'll be your best friend.  But if you have anything at all to say about it other than glowing reviews, he turns into a very hostile, defensive, and arrogant person?   If someone is only your friend while they are stealing from you, they're a con artist.

The $48,000 in dust payments were not that much at the time.  You could equally argue that if you bought $1,000 of drugs from a dark market when the price was $1, they owe you millions.

PS:  Antpool takes transaction fees.  Looking at this chart, you can see that with Antpool's hashrate they make shitloads of money.

At the very least, Kano should state on the pool faq that miners with less power than 0.7T will simply never be paid at all, regardless of how much they max out said requirement.  No such statement exists that I noticed, maybe I'm wrong but now I don't like to go to his site because I don't like him having access to my IP.   Instead it says 'Do not point CPU / GPU miners to this pool'.

Why should I give Kano my power cost and reward for that ramp up period?  Why isn't that 'donation' (or theft, depending on how you want to phrase it) mentioned as part of the fees?  Saying the fees are 0.9% is deceptive and not accurate.  If that ramp period comes to 2.5 days, then that's 2.5 days of power cost gone and 2.5 days of reward gone, for me, about $20.  I should pay $20 for the 'privilege' of mining on his pool?  No thanks.

I think he uses that implied write-off as a method of coercing users into staying with his pool. 


"Be patient, I just want to rob you for a couple days, but then afterwords, oh man, it's going to be so great!"


Actually, my code example is totally unnecessary.  Here's why.  The clearly evident facts are:

Kano is already tracking payments under the payout threshhold.  The website lists them, and marks which ones won't be paid.  So that is already done.

Kano already has code to send payments to people.  Allegedly, I wouldn't know, this happens all the time.

So the new code required?  Add up the unpaid payments, and pay them.

He's put more effort into crook-splaining why he doesn't do this than it would take to actually do it.


Well... my 'facts' are mostly just direct quotes from Kano.  This is not me putting words in his mouth, it's his own admission of not paying out 'dust' miners, keeping some portion of their payments, and ultimately that has added up to over $50k.  His words, not mine.  Maybe he's lying about it just to piss me off, I wouldn't rule that out.  But as it stands, he is pretty brazen about gloating about how much money he has skimmed off the top from users like yourself.


Not true.  The 2.5 day ramp up time period you paid more than that 0.9%, according to your own statements above.  Likely, you also got robbed at some point for any time you failed to stay connected 100% of the time.


You removed part of my sig so I filled it back in for you.  I'm curious why you would remove it.  Does it sting?  That's why I've done it.  For you, so hopefully you'll eventually get paid what's owed to you.  Do you think I care about the $1.40 Kano owes me?  Or the $5-$10 I lost in power costs trying his pool out?  Sure I'd like to get paid but at this point I'm just offended he gets away with robbing the people making him so much money.  It's not necessary.  He could just be honest and pay people what they're owed and still make a bucket of money.

I am not sure if you actually understand how kano pool works after all. I just can't tell from your lengthy complaint. Assuming you have maxed the 5Nd requirement as per pool faq page, you should expect 3.5T / 80000T (pool total) x 12.5 btc (raw reward) = 0.0005 per block. This is higher than the dust cutoff. If you were rewarded less than this by a wide margin, then either 1) your hash is much lower than 3.5T as you claimed; or 2) you haven't max'ed out 5Nd.

This is how kano pool works and the math behind it. Even kano cannot cheat around this, or we wouldn't be on the pool.


Current 5Nd should be about 2.5 days.

I can understand it's not possible to require every miner to be patient for such time frame, where I personally have no issue with, this could be found on faq page before you even start mining at this pool. and if timeliness is so critical to you, then antpool, or pool-hopping-proxy pools maybe are better choices for you. It's your preference.

I have electric bills to pay every month. what i do is i dedicate a small amount of hashes to other PPS pools to ensure i can meet the commitment, should kano pool suffers the worst possible luck. This is risk management, things can be done. Failure to use tools properly does not entitle tool inventers to be deceptive.


And now it comes to this interesting part. While I stay neutral on kano's comment about you being no experience with building system as such, I surely can't give you much credit either. I trust you didn't spend more than 5 minutes laying down pseudo code like this, but you have totally ignored the architecture and design behind the running software. Anyone can say how one would think something works, but without understanding how pieces fit each other, it's nonsense, or garbage, at most.

5 minutes of logic flow does not equate to 5 minutes of work to get it into production. <-- I will stop here, assuming you know software engineering principles well enough.


I saw you have a lot of emphasis on being factual. Yes, I witnessed this story you had with kano and would agree that you did not evidently spiced it. BUT, please understand that facts can be conflicting too. Your fact does not equate to my fact all the time.

So, facts are only for supporting your argument. it does not entitle you to be righteous without question.

because, I have 80TH on kano pool. and I audit kano pool payout every week then find that: I pay 0.9% fee, e-v-e-r-y-t-i-m-e.

Now, do I have a comeback to finger point your signature that


I would not do so.

I'm going to stop posting to his thread now, it's obviously not going anywhere (and I just noticed in the 'Deleted Post' notification that it expressly states I should stop posting to his thread if he's asked me to, which he did).

Kano pool users, I've done what I can.  It's up to you now.  Good luck.

Here's another post he deleted, I thought it should be retained somewhere.


Your statements don't add up.  The website is already showing me the payments it's not giving me.  Clearly you have access to that information.  And it's not based on the blockchain payments, because there was no payment (to me).   So no matter how it is that you figure out exactly how much money you're not paying out, you could simply do that again, and actually pay it out to people.  You've made the decision not to, and people need to be aware of that.

And I did read your other posts, they mostly read like the kind of rubbish that would result in me firing someone if they tried to explain a three year delay in critical functionality.  "Oh, we can't do that because something something Orphan Blocks.  You just wouldn't understand, only I understand, so shut up and give me your money!"

The rest of it, frankly, reads like you're laundering money for people.  People pool their miners, help you generate fresh coins, and in exchange, you give them small portions of other existing coins.  While you keep the newly minted coins.  Where did the old coins come from?  Where are the new coins going?  You could be laundering drug money for all we know.  And when the forensic accountants eventually get their act together and start unraveling the threads of this fiasco, who pays?  Your miners, when those old coins are retroactively seized.

When you talk about 'there is no accounting system yet, it needs added', how do you expect to go back over three years of payouts and figure out who gets what?  Obviously, you won't.  So you should just come out and admit that the unpaid 'dust' will never be paid out, instead of lying about it over and over again.

The code is right, I've posted it to my scam thread about your pool as well.  The only reason you've gotten away with this for as long as you have is you talk down at people you think don't know as much (or more) about coding.  Those days are numbered.  You need to get it together man, before you get dragged into court for fraud.  $50k+ is a considerable amount of money.