Topic: We are on our way to 3.5-3.7! (Read 10218 times)

All I'm sayin is that prohibition never helped anyone, except those with the force

Well, to be fair, you haven't shown me anything to believe you need the help like old_engineer. But, you know, if you need something... Seriously, shut up, Crypt_Current, unless you have a legitimate gripe about title insurance and property sold for BTC.

I've been looking for something to keep me busy since I automated my mining rig.  Thanks for the link BitMagic -- this will quell my simple mind all the way to bedtime!

Yes, nice work old_engineer, you've dug up the same listings I've seen. Property for sale, not sold. Still having trouble reading, yeah? This time it's a grammar problem. Check this out.

Happened to see a house for sale in Salt Lake City for bitcoins:
https://joindiaspora.com/posts/573699

Poking around, saw two more properties for sale, in the past year: one in Brazil, the other in Buenos Aires:
https://bitcointalk.org/?topic=1617.25%3bwap2

The Salt Lake place looks like owner financing, so you'd only have to put up about 1000 bitcoins to buy the place. The "unrealistic" and "highly improbable" is now looking more like "quite likely" over the next few years.  I really don't see how you could be any more wrong, repeating over and over that it's not possible, even as your objections have been shot down one by one by one, yet you still cling to your belief.  Do you ever change your mind based on evidence?

Aand deepbit's down.  So much for my market intelligence.  Should have been monitoring multiple pools I guess...

This is pretty much exactly what I see happening short term.  With the market going the way it is, I just don't see a reversal happening, we are barely holding to 4 as it is, just like with 5. 

I've been saying that we're not out of the denial phase myself.

At this point I'm seeing capitulation at $1.25.  It will be confirmed by a crash in deepbit hash rates.   A 20% reduction in hash rates from the peak is not capitulation, that's just a few bulls turning bear early.  If we keep slowly leaking hash rates and price instead I'll adjust my capitulation target accordingly.   If we somehow lose 80% of the hash rate at $3 instead I'll adjust my bottom call upward.

We shouldn't see capitulation until the long thanksgiving weekend and/or christmas and/or new years.  Longs have been severely punished during long holiday weekends in the past and if that repeats during end of year holiday season we may finally be done with the bubble deflating phase.

So far my calling the previous $4.20 support a new resistance (and by extension this month's stagnation target) level has been more or less correct.  The big question is: how low will it drop next month?  Even with a 10% difficulty drop we're still pretty close to power cost for most miners, a $1 drop could result in losing massive hashing power for months while difficulty adjusts.

OH and yes it will be interesting to see how the holidays factor into BTC prices -- i've been thinking about that a lot, and I think it could affect price moving it up or down.

A few days ago when the prices were fluctuating wildly and dropping, I took a short position at bitcoinica at a base price of 3.91.  I have yet to profitably eliminate that position.  IF ONLY PRICES WOULD DROP FURTHER

Right on.  The future of btc will hold good things, but for the moment I'm short btc.  I don't think we are quite through the denial phase/panic selling stage.  All it takes is a few people cashing out for the holidays/black friday/whatever. 

Good for you!

I make market related bets on bitcoinica, not against random internet forum users.  Maximizing my profits, can't stand to have bitcoins sitting around doing nothing   

Wanna bet?  On both or either.  Bet has to be in BTC though.

Who's sucker enough actually be holding bitcoins at the moment?  Correction isn't over. 

Yep! It has never been a requirement, only a very intelligent thing to do to prevent scams. Just sayin'. If you were an early adopter with 50k bitcoins sitting around, and a friend of yours wanted to buy bitcoins and also had an investment property he/she wanted to sell, I could see you transacting stupidly with bitcoin, with no insurance. Probable? I would have said no until now.

The point, lest you've missed it this entire time, is it's stupid. So stupid that it's a pointless argument. Just...stupid. Feel free to tell me why it's not, though.



I was talking about how stupid it would be to buy a house with bitcoins. You told me how you could do it with dollars. Then I called you stupid. I mean, it's pretty damn stupid. You know, like, not intelligent to suggest using dollars, and ignore how unreasonable such a transaction would be.

Seriously, quit trying to save face when someone comes along to tell you exactly why your idiotic idealism doesn't hold up to reality. I trust you're not stupid people, just obsessed with unrealistic possibility. Like I said before, I'm taken aback at how upsetting it is to hear people constantly look for that one little, highly improbable reason to keep beating this dead horse. You sound like cultists.

I can only respond to what you type.  I bought my first house decades ago.  You know not of what you speak.


And you're wrong about title insurance, too.  It is only required by mortgage lenders, and not required for a cash purchase.
From http://www.insurance.wa.gov/consumers/home/title_insurance.shtml :
"If you are buying real estate in Washington state and using a commercial lender to finance the purchase, the lender will require you to buy title insurance equal to the amount of the loan. [...] If you pay cash for a property, you are not required to buy title insurance."

Have any more face-saving clarification attempts?

Apology accepted, PIBM, but there is no way to rule out that a $40k btc property transaction has occurred.  Unlikely, perhaps, but like a normal distribution, the chance of a very large transactions is non-zero.  Bitcoins can be fun, and people can be purposefully illogical on the bleeding edge to make a point or just claim they were first.  If I were an early adopter with 50k bitcoins sitting around, and a friend of mine wanted to buy bitcoins and also had an investment property he/she wanted to sell, I could see a bitcoin-denominating transaction happening.  Probable?  No.  Possible?  Yes. Stranger things have happened.  A cash transaction can be completed in less than a day, minimizing exchange rate fluctuations.

And since you asked, my politics are nuanced and do not fall into simple categories.  I'm active in electoral politics, yet have never given money to a libertarian candidate, so though I do have libertarian leanings, I'm most certainly not a libertarian.  Also: NO U!

Wanna bet?  On both or either?  Has to be in BTC though.

Whelp, you caught me in another typo, which you might have been able to fully realize had you known anything about house-buying in the first place. I was actually talking about title insurance. You know, that insurance you purchase no matter how you pay for your house? Yeah, the same insurance that prevents bankruptcy trustees (the seller, perhaps?) from seeking a court order to void the sale because it was paid in "worthless internet scam dollars."

No title insurer would ever insure a house paid in BTC right now.

I apologize for the confusion. Now stop being a contrarian and accept that you're an idiot. BTC, now, is not going anywhere close to that level of transaction. It won't be here in 10 years, and you are a libertarian.

I'm glad to see you don't disappoint, PIBM.  My point is that if a $12k exchange fee on a $200k purchase passed your smell test, instead of calling it a "downpayment", you obviously have no experience in these matters, and no one should heed your advice.


Aaaand it looks like insurance isn't your specialty, either. Mortgage insurance, and all the formalities around MI, are only required in the US if you pay less than 20% of the principle as a down payment.  And of course, a mortgage is only required if you can't buy a house free-and-clear, and require a bank to own the property for you. The OP said nothing about getting a mortgage, just that 40k btc was paid for a house.

Perhaps Bitcoin denominated mortgages and mortgage insurance could happen in the future, but that's far-off speculation, and bitcoin prices would have to be more stable than the local fiat currency.  I don't think this would ever happen in the US in your lifetime, but some fiat currencies have experienced 100%+ monthly (not yearly) inflation - see Argentina in the 90s - and if bitcoin prices are relatively stable 10 years from now, bitcoin could be a more reliable store of value than the local fiat currency, and there's no reason why an entrepreneur couldn't start providing bitcoin-denominated mortgages in that country.


No, there is nothing that prevents someone from paying for property right now in the US with any combination of USD, bitcoins, or goats.  Once two parties agree on the payment method and sign the sales agreement, the only paperwork filed with the state is the title change, which is filed at the recorder's office.  Taxes are calculated as a percentage of the sale price, which would be done as USD equivalent, same as if you sell your house for a herd of goats and two oxen.  Being impossible to forge, the Bitcoin blockchain could provide proof of payment that would hold up in a court of law.

And for the record, I'm not a libertarian, I own no bitcoins, and I used to be be young and ignorant once, but I didn't pretend that I knew it all.