Topic: We Are Seeing The Effects Of The Minimum Wage Rise In San Francisco (Read 1390 times)
Our chancellor (UK) is implementing a £9p.h "living" wage in the next few years. Estimates are 60,000 people going to be displaced from work. You need to realise that people will also want to maintain wage differentials and more wages than just those at the bottom can be pushed up when you set/raise a minimum wage. This can make a business less competitive, obviously, and incentivise a look towards capital rather than labour in the production or service process...meaning those who would be benefiting from the higher wage actually receive no wage and would be better off just getting paid at their market price, because now a machine is doing their job! It's complicated, at least more than loony lefty activists want to make it out to be with their fairness mantras.
July 14, 2015, 07:06:45 PM
The issue is that the motivation is misplaced. Instead of fighting for a higher minimum wage, why not just redirect that effort into learning a skill?
Why don't pay these lads some money to learn a new skill and also get work done from them while teaching them, similar opportunities like interning, actually. But then the education board will question the government why they are offering same opportunities to the people who are paying top dollar to get the same opportunities after study. Maybe reducing tuition fees could be a nice thing that could happen to the world.
What happens is businesses start outsourcing low skilled labour to other countries, and the country loses employment opportunities. You can already see this for the last couple decades with manufacturing, call centres and IT jobs.
yes, and that leads to tension between the tourists and foreigners who visit the land and the people of the country. The outcome is terrible. After a lot of Indians settling down in Canada, there was a lot of bullying over these Indians stating that these people stole jobs from the Canadians.
I don't think it's due to lack of education opportunities. Everything up to high school is publicly funded most places, and in North America, the government will loan money for post secondary. I wasn't even talking about a formal education. Even without a formal education there are many ways to have a job that pays more than minimum wage if you have a skill. (installing drywall, plumbing, flooring, tiles, fencing, interlocking, landscaping, security, etc.) It takes 2 years to apprentice and become a mechanic and earn maybe 3-5 times minimum wage.
The fact that someone has trouble making ends meet at minimum wage should be enough motivation to get a job where you use your potential, be fulfilled from contributing something and making more money as a result.
I had a minimum wage job for about 6 months when I was 16. It felt great to get paid, but the job sucked and I wasn't treated well. I didn't enjoy being there and knew it would be temporary. That should be enough motivation for anyone to not work in that work environment long-term. At the time I lived with my parents with all living expenses covered, but otherwise, it would be extremely difficult to get by on that type of money.
July 14, 2015, 03:09:20 AM
The issue is that the motivation is misplaced. Instead of fighting for a higher minimum wage, why not just redirect that effort into learning a skill?
Why don't pay these lads some money to learn a new skill and also get work done from them while teaching them, similar opportunities like interning, actually. But then the education board will question the government why they are offering same opportunities to the people who are paying top dollar to get the same opportunities after study. Maybe reducing tuition fees could be a nice thing that could happen to the world.
What happens is businesses start outsourcing low skilled labour to other countries, and the country loses employment opportunities. You can already see this for the last couple decades with manufacturing, call centres and IT jobs.
yes, and that leads to tension between the tourists and foreigners who visit the land and the people of the country. The outcome is terrible. After a lot of Indians settling down in Canada, there was a lot of bullying over these Indians stating that these people stole jobs from the Canadians.
July 14, 2015, 02:13:05 AM
The whole concept of Minimum Wage is flawed, because it stems from centrally-planned resource allocation. It doesn't solve any problem but only creates new ones. Competition can't be eliminated via decree, it will always find ways of circumvention.
The truth is that in future low-skilled workers will have a very hard time to get any job. Minimum Wage will make the problem only worse, because workers will be more expensive, so their replacement by machines will be accelerated.
ya.ya.yo!
The truth is that in future low-skilled workers will have a very hard time to get any job. Minimum Wage will make the problem only worse, because workers will be more expensive, so their replacement by machines will be accelerated.
ya.ya.yo!
Employment for low-skilled folks would be much higher without a minimum wage. It definitely doesn't benefit the employer or the customer. It artificially benefits those that have minimum wage jobs, at the cost of having others unemployed altogether.
Low-skilled/minimum wage jobs should be a steppingstone for people entering the workforce or making ends meet. People need to better understand that it's not a place to have a life long career.
Its definitely not a place to have a life long career, a person just can't survive for so many years flipping burgers. And that is a much more comfortable job than others. With the inflation and the increase of price, how much would he even get even if his wage is a little high? We all should educate one another and find more creative and effecient jobs which might benefit more! Grow. Don't do the same job for more than 10 years.
Exactly, the idea of the minimum wage isn't that you can make a career doing anything, the idea is that minimal wage jobs allow teenagers a place to start, to move onto better things. Minimum wage shouldn't be elevated to the point where everyone is living luxuriously off of minimum wage, the only effect this will have is increasing the cost of living and destroying small businesses.
I think if the minimum wage is adjusted to a particular amount, it might benefit both. I don't think small businesses will just collapse if they pay a dollar or two more and I don't think students will really suffer so much if they get paid a couple dollars less too. I think both can grow mutually if they understand the concept of minimum wage better than just think about 'paying/receiving' more
The issue is that the motivation is misplaced. Instead of fighting for a higher minimum wage, why not just redirect that effort into learning a skill? Imagine going your whole life without having any skill, having trouble making ends meet, and doing nothing but complaining to the government or employer about it.
I don't agree that an employer should be obligated to pay "a couple dollars more" because the government insists on it. What happens is businesses start outsourcing low skilled labour to other countries, and the country loses employment opportunities. You can already see this for the last couple decades with manufacturing, call centres and IT jobs.
July 14, 2015, 12:00:37 AM
The whole concept of Minimum Wage is flawed, because it stems from centrally-planned resource allocation. It doesn't solve any problem but only creates new ones. Competition can't be eliminated via decree, it will always find ways of circumvention.
The truth is that in future low-skilled workers will have a very hard time to get any job. Minimum Wage will make the problem only worse, because workers will be more expensive, so their replacement by machines will be accelerated.
ya.ya.yo!
The truth is that in future low-skilled workers will have a very hard time to get any job. Minimum Wage will make the problem only worse, because workers will be more expensive, so their replacement by machines will be accelerated.
ya.ya.yo!
Employment for low-skilled folks would be much higher without a minimum wage. It definitely doesn't benefit the employer or the customer. It artificially benefits those that have minimum wage jobs, at the cost of having others unemployed altogether.
Low-skilled/minimum wage jobs should be a steppingstone for people entering the workforce or making ends meet. People need to better understand that it's not a place to have a life long career.
Its definitely not a place to have a life long career, a person just can't survive for so many years flipping burgers. And that is a much more comfortable job than others. With the inflation and the increase of price, how much would he even get even if his wage is a little high? We all should educate one another and find more creative and effecient jobs which might benefit more! Grow. Don't do the same job for more than 10 years.
Exactly, the idea of the minimum wage isn't that you can make a career doing anything, the idea is that minimal wage jobs allow teenagers a place to start, to move onto better things. Minimum wage shouldn't be elevated to the point where everyone is living luxuriously off of minimum wage, the only effect this will have is increasing the cost of living and destroying small businesses.
I think if the minimum wage is adjusted to a particular amount, it might benefit both. I don't think small businesses will just collapse if they pay a dollar or two more and I don't think students will really suffer so much if they get paid a couple dollars less too. I think both can grow mutually if they understand the concept of minimum wage better than just think about 'paying/receiving' more
July 13, 2015, 11:45:16 PM
The whole concept of Minimum Wage is flawed, because it stems from centrally-planned resource allocation. It doesn't solve any problem but only creates new ones. Competition can't be eliminated via decree, it will always find ways of circumvention.
The truth is that in future low-skilled workers will have a very hard time to get any job. Minimum Wage will make the problem only worse, because workers will be more expensive, so their replacement by machines will be accelerated.
ya.ya.yo!
The truth is that in future low-skilled workers will have a very hard time to get any job. Minimum Wage will make the problem only worse, because workers will be more expensive, so their replacement by machines will be accelerated.
ya.ya.yo!
Employment for low-skilled folks would be much higher without a minimum wage. It definitely doesn't benefit the employer or the customer. It artificially benefits those that have minimum wage jobs, at the cost of having others unemployed altogether.
Low-skilled/minimum wage jobs should be a steppingstone for people entering the workforce or making ends meet. People need to better understand that it's not a place to have a life long career.
Its definitely not a place to have a life long career, a person just can't survive for so many years flipping burgers. And that is a much more comfortable job than others. With the inflation and the increase of price, how much would he even get even if his wage is a little high? We all should educate one another and find more creative and effecient jobs which might benefit more! Grow. Don't do the same job for more than 10 years.
Exactly, the idea of the minimum wage isn't that you can make a career doing anything, the idea is that minimal wage jobs allow teenagers a place to start, to move onto better things. Minimum wage shouldn't be elevated to the point where everyone is living luxuriously off of minimum wage, the only effect this will have is increasing the cost of living and destroying small businesses.
July 13, 2015, 11:33:23 PM
The whole concept of Minimum Wage is flawed, because it stems from centrally-planned resource allocation. It doesn't solve any problem but only creates new ones. Competition can't be eliminated via decree, it will always find ways of circumvention.
The truth is that in future low-skilled workers will have a very hard time to get any job. Minimum Wage will make the problem only worse, because workers will be more expensive, so their replacement by machines will be accelerated.
ya.ya.yo!
The truth is that in future low-skilled workers will have a very hard time to get any job. Minimum Wage will make the problem only worse, because workers will be more expensive, so their replacement by machines will be accelerated.
ya.ya.yo!
Employment for low-skilled folks would be much higher without a minimum wage. It definitely doesn't benefit the employer or the customer. It artificially benefits those that have minimum wage jobs, at the cost of having others unemployed altogether.
Low-skilled/minimum wage jobs should be a steppingstone for people entering the workforce or making ends meet. People need to better understand that it's not a place to have a life long career.
Its definitely not a place to have a life long career, a person just can't survive for so many years flipping burgers. And that is a much more comfortable job than others. With the inflation and the increase of price, how much would he even get even if his wage is a little high? We all should educate one another and find more creative and effecient jobs which might benefit more! Grow. Don't do the same job for more than 10 years.
July 13, 2015, 10:51:46 PM
The whole concept of Minimum Wage is flawed, because it stems from centrally-planned resource allocation. It doesn't solve any problem but only creates new ones. Competition can't be eliminated via decree, it will always find ways of circumvention.
The truth is that in future low-skilled workers will have a very hard time to get any job. Minimum Wage will make the problem only worse, because workers will be more expensive, so their replacement by machines will be accelerated.
ya.ya.yo!
The truth is that in future low-skilled workers will have a very hard time to get any job. Minimum Wage will make the problem only worse, because workers will be more expensive, so their replacement by machines will be accelerated.
ya.ya.yo!
Employment for low-skilled folks would be much higher without a minimum wage. It definitely doesn't benefit the employer or the customer. It artificially benefits those that have minimum wage jobs, at the cost of having others unemployed altogether.
Low-skilled/minimum wage jobs should be a steppingstone for people entering the workforce or making ends meet. People need to better understand that it's not a place to have a life long career.
July 13, 2015, 06:42:14 PM
Minimum-wage laws make it illegal for low-skilled people to work.
It makes it only illegal to not pay low-skilled people enough. So when they need to get paid more then either these businesses die, then they were not strong enough from the start, or they charge higher prices for their services. If the business is needed then in fact they will survive. And the workers can buy their food.
Doesn't sound like the worst thing to me.
Regardless of what is "enough" or how much they "need", a business will not pay a person more than they are worth. If a person is not worth the wage dictated by minimum wage, then they will not work. The minimum wage laws make it illegal to pay some people what they are worth, and thus prevents them from working.
Your argument that people should be paid "enough" or what they "need" is really just an argument that low skilled people should be subsidized. In that case, a basic income guarantee is more appropriate than a minimum wage.
Yes, a basic income is a good idea to let people live and decide more free. Even the most liberal parties already thought about that idea.
Though paying the low educated people what they are worth is simply not correct. You only need to look at the countries that go "liberalizing" former regulated markets. For example if the bus drivers have a fixed amount of money then they get paid less and that's it. Ticket prices don't drop, they only get paid less. You say their worth is less worth then? The same people use the busses, nothing changed, only they get less money.
At the end they have so few that they can't nurture their family and they go and need money from the government on top. Which is... our tax payers money. At the end the busdrivers have less money, the government has less money, and the taxpayer has to pay for it, while some buscompanies CEO gets a reward for raising the company profits.
Doesn't sound like "the" clever plan.
July 09, 2015, 08:33:03 PM
Minimum-wage laws make it illegal for low-skilled people to work.
It makes it only illegal to not pay low-skilled people enough. So when they need to get paid more then either these businesses die, then they were not strong enough from the start, or they charge higher prices for their services. If the business is needed then in fact they will survive. And the workers can buy their food.
Doesn't sound like the worst thing to me.
Regardless of what is "enough" or how much they "need", a business will not pay a person more than they are worth. If a person is not worth the wage dictated by minimum wage, then they will not work. The minimum wage laws make it illegal to pay some people what they are worth, and thus prevents them from working.
Your argument that people should be paid "enough" or what they "need" is really just an argument that low skilled people should be subsidized. In that case, a basic income guarantee is more appropriate than a minimum wage.
July 09, 2015, 07:59:33 PM
The whole concept of Minimum Wage is flawed, because it stems from centrally-planned resource allocation. It doesn't solve any problem but only creates new ones. Competition can't be eliminated via decree, it will always find ways of circumvention.
The truth is that in future low-skilled workers will have a very hard time to get any job. Minimum Wage will make the problem only worse, because workers will be more expensive, so their replacement by machines will be accelerated.
ya.ya.yo!
The truth is that in future low-skilled workers will have a very hard time to get any job. Minimum Wage will make the problem only worse, because workers will be more expensive, so their replacement by machines will be accelerated.
ya.ya.yo!
July 09, 2015, 02:50:00 PM
Rising Minimum Wage is a topic shrouded with large amount of controversy in the United States. Some argue that raising it is vital to US recovery and will stop poverty, while others say that the real route to prosperity lies in lowering or even eliminating it. I am here to say that both are wrong. Our current woes have nothing to do with wages, per se. The latter are symptomatic of the deeper problem but are not, by themselves, key.
Rising Wages is not the problem, our current economic system is the problem. More info in this article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2014/07/06/raising-minimum-wage-not-the-answer/
Rising Wages is not the problem, our current economic system is the problem. More info in this article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2014/07/06/raising-minimum-wage-not-the-answer/
July 09, 2015, 02:11:41 PM
It's normal that people want raises. If you are going to be a wage slave, at least get a decent salary. What we'll see in china is the "competition through shitty salaries" bubble exploding, it's going to be fun.
July 09, 2015, 01:41:04 PM
Minimum-wage laws make it illegal for low-skilled people to work.
It makes it only illegal to not pay low-skilled people enough. So when they need to get paid more then either these businesses die, then they were not strong enough from the start, or they charge higher prices for their services. If the business is needed then in fact they will survive. And the workers can buy their food.
Doesn't sound like the worst thing to me.
July 08, 2015, 04:16:38 PM
It's too soon to see real effects yet. SF has only had higher minimum wages for about year, right? How are things going with the Seattle/Washington State market?
July 08, 2015, 01:52:56 PM
I can explain. All the increase in cost goes to paying more for labor. So nothing else changes except customers have to pay more so that workers can get paid more. This however reduces quantity of business, since prices have gone up. How much business is lost depends on several factors and the specific situation. This can however indirectly lead to more business in the long-term. If there are more people earning more money, there could be more consumers. That is one of the main reasons higher wages tend to be associated with less inequality.
It really depends on the specifics of the situation though, how much hidden pent-up demand there is. Because if you went into a Third World country and tried to institute a minimum wage several times higher than what the average people in that country are paid, it would simply lead to mass unemployment and make things even worse for most of those people. Raising the minimum wage works best during times when the labor force is close to full employment. And yet paradoxically it is times when unemployment is high that tends to drive down wages, when workers are struggling the most.
It really depends on the specifics of the situation though, how much hidden pent-up demand there is. Because if you went into a Third World country and tried to institute a minimum wage several times higher than what the average people in that country are paid, it would simply lead to mass unemployment and make things even worse for most of those people. Raising the minimum wage works best during times when the labor force is close to full employment. And yet paradoxically it is times when unemployment is high that tends to drive down wages, when workers are struggling the most.
Well, unemployment is a number. The number of workers out of the workforce entirely and not counted in that number is the highest ever. When labor is close to full employment, there is no need for minimum wage as wages will rise based on supply and demand, just like we saw during the dot com bubble when unemployment hovered around 4% and starting wages rose above minimum wage. When more are unemployed like today, raising minimum wage will just end up putting more people off the working list.
July 08, 2015, 01:44:20 PM
This is classic redistribution. Theiddle class patrons of Chipotle can afford to pay higher prices to help redistribute wealth to the minimum wage employees. Nothing like some forced market distortion!
July 08, 2015, 01:39:15 PM
That doesn't make any sense though. So let's say Chipotle has to increase the costs of its food. Now there's a demand for a way to produce cheaper meat. This in turn spurs the economy, after all someone has to create the product, manufacture it and sell it. More jobs have been created by this. Or think of it like this, the costs of meat have gone up, so people will buy less of it, but other food sources will be able to sell more products. In the end, there are plenty of jobs created. It's the manner of jobs being created that is the argument. This is stimulating the economy on the backs of businesses. This goes to a fundamental question about what businesses should be for. Are they for making a profit, or do they owe their employees?
I can explain. All the increase in cost goes to paying more for labor. So nothing else changes except customers have to pay more so that workers can get paid more. This however reduces quantity of business, since prices have gone up. How much business is lost depends on several factors and the specific situation. This can however indirectly lead to more business in the long-term. If there are more people earning more money, there could be more consumers. That is one of the main reasons higher wages tend to be associated with less inequality.
It really depends on the specifics of the situation though, how much hidden pent-up demand there is. Because if you went into a Third World country and tried to institute a minimum wage several times higher than what the average people in that country are paid, it would simply lead to mass unemployment and make things even worse for most of those people. Raising the minimum wage works best during times when the labor force is close to full employment. And yet paradoxically it is times when unemployment is high that tends to drive down wages, when workers are struggling the most.
July 08, 2015, 12:03:28 PM
So the cost goes up ,the prices goes up and the labor wage increases. The increase in minimum wages is nothing new though. But then best thing a country can do to its labors is actually provide them employment according to their capabilities. In a way , minimum wage destroys a sense of competition.
Dude, but I'd rather not give a fuck about the competition just to make sure the not so skilled, not so talented are also able to enjoy a good, comfortable lifestyle with the minimum wage. Surely award those who are talented, I would love to see the skilled progress ahead but please do not leave the poor, not so educated and not so talented people behind. As a team, lets progress together
July 08, 2015, 12:00:37 PM
Minimum-wage laws make it illegal for low-skilled people to work.
Jump to: