We No Longer Pay People Directly - page 2.

Ryker1

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Quote from: arwin100 on December 15, 2022, 06:54:05 PM

Quote from: proud55 on December 15, 2022, 06:05:13 PM

Quote from: NotATether on December 15, 2022, 12:50:59 PM

"We no longer pay people directly"

Erm... I just paid my bus fare in cash today. Not everywhere uses PayPal or fancy fintech apps. Not that they are unavailable or anything, but most places in the world just aren't infected by Silicoin Valley hype culture.

I understand that many places in the world still use cash often. But as the world transitions to a more digital economy your country will eventually stop using cash. Thus my statement remains true: We cannot pay another human unless there is a corporation involved.

Many people still use cash since their digital infrastructure is not so good and their digital economy is not well backed up by the government. Maybe if there's an upgrade towards this and they could make their internet fasten up and have digital economy upgrades we can see many third world country would adopt this changes. Its just the government is the problem to make this transition to happen.

This means that it will depend on which country you live because there are countries that did not support bitcoin as a payment method.
Bitcoin is one of the best alternative currencies as of now to use when it comes to digitalization currency. But I believe there is still the government that is open-minded when it comes to bitcoin, instead of stopping their people to use bitcoin they allow it, and becomes legal tender in their place. Banks and other regulated government agencies work together and if bitcoin is against you in your place, there is nothing you can do.

arwin100

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Quote from: proud55 on December 15, 2022, 06:05:13 PM

Quote from: NotATether on December 15, 2022, 12:50:59 PM

"We no longer pay people directly"

Erm... I just paid my bus fare in cash today. Not everywhere uses PayPal or fancy fintech apps. Not that they are unavailable or anything, but most places in the world just aren't infected by Silicoin Valley hype culture.

I understand that many places in the world still use cash often. But as the world transitions to a more digital economy your country will eventually stop using cash. Thus my statement remains true: We cannot pay another human unless there is a corporation involved.

Many people still use cash since their digital infrastructure is not so good and their digital economy is not well backed up by the government. Maybe if there's an upgrade towards this and they could make their internet fasten up and have digital economy upgrades we can see many third world country would adopt this changes. Its just the government is the problem to make this transition to happen.

proud55

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Quote from: NotATether on December 15, 2022, 12:50:59 PM

"We no longer pay people directly"

Erm... I just paid my bus fare in cash today. Not everywhere uses PayPal or fancy fintech apps. Not that they are unavailable or anything, but most places in the world just aren't infected by Silicoin Valley hype culture.

I understand that many places in the world still use cash often. But as the world transitions to a more digital economy your country will eventually stop using cash. Thus my statement remains true: We cannot pay another human unless there is a corporation involved.

This statement is extremely alarming to me. This is fundamentally not right. How can we live in a world where corporations/governments force themselves in every monetary transaction.

vv181

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We should expect that the world will evolve to be more and more digitized, and expect that transactions we are doing, are being recorded. Not only that, the services and goods will be specifically categorized. It potentially opens up a more controlled approach way of transaction handling, which is seriously concerning.

Bitcoin here seems a truly promising option for many people to directly transact digitally without any intermediaries, in another hand, cash would be the sole option. Unfortunately, it seems that many people will keep preferring convenience, so it will beat those two things, a convenient way that many people already getting used to using centralized entities. So, the way forward should be making bitcoin users' barrier to entry getting lower, which is a better UX for the ecosystem and widely spread adoptions.

NotATether

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"We no longer pay people directly"

Erm... I just paid my bus fare in cash today. Not everywhere uses PayPal or fancy fintech apps. Not that they are unavailable or anything, but most places in the world just aren't infected by Silicoin Valley hype culture.

Davidvictorson

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Quote from: proud55 on December 13, 2022, 01:00:40 PM

The less we use cash, the more we pay people through a corporation. The last remaining use of cash and direct payments is Tipping.
Everything else we must pay through a corporation. We cannot pay another human unless there is a corporation involved. As cash disappears this becomes a final fact -- a corporation involved in every financial transaction you pursue. In each transaction, the corporation is taking their percentage but also controls and monitors your transaction.

BTC

Bitcoin

I have never thought of it this way until now. You are correct though but in the country where I reside, he last remaining use of cash and direct payments is not just Tipping. We still use cash in the market, we still use cash to pay for transportation with the cabbie, cash is still used for payment in at the gas station. Bitcoin transaction is picking up slowly but not at the pace of other nations where one can use bitcoin for payment of goods or services.

isaac_clarke22

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Quote from: Yatsan on December 15, 2022, 09:38:12 AM

~

Considering that people are commonly using bank cards these days and there are digital payment processors that are continuously being used a lot here in my country. I can imagine that if people would somehow just realize how great decentralization then they would all just start using Bitcoin although Bitcoin being global currency is not going to happen obviously since we have government that are surely going to try to regulate the usage of it through either taxes or horrendous fees.

People would still be used to fiat since it is the one that just became the usual stuff they got used to since.

kryptqnick

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Quote from: proud55 on December 13, 2022, 01:00:40 PM

The less we use cash, the more we pay people through a corporation. The last remaining use of cash and direct payments is Tipping.
Everything else we must pay through a corporation. We cannot pay another human unless there is a corporation involved. As cash disappears this becomes a final fact -- a corporation involved in every financial transaction you pursue. In each transaction, the corporation is taking their percentage but also controls and monitors your transaction.

BTC

Bitcoin

I like the convenience of high level of digitalization. It's easy to use Google Pay or a PayPass chip on a debit card, not needing to think about the country you're in and having a proper currency with you when you are travelling. Fiat can have its own problems when ATM withdrawals are limited or there simply aren't enough ATMs to meet the demand, and if you're going to another country, exchanges to get fiat can collect ridiculous fees, as well as require an ID after some threshold. That being said, sometimes the cashless motive goes way too far. For example, in London, you can pay a bit more than 2 pounds for underground if you pay contactless, but a whopping 6 pounds and something if you pay with cash! I'm surprised it's even legal, given that cash represents the same currency, so how can the price differ so much!
Bitcoin is a great solution, one which doesn't require intermediaries. But that's not the case in practice, when acceptance of Bitcoin is still very low in many places, so you can't just use Bitcoin directly.

ethereumhunter

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Quote from: Bitstar_coin on December 15, 2022, 01:54:43 AM

That is not the case here in my country, cash is still heavily in use here even though the government is pushing hard for a cashless economy but it is not the same as the situation you have described above, I can't imagine how hard and frustrating such situation will be when the third party is in charge of every of your payment.
Definitely, btc will serve as a great alternative in such a situation that way you will bypass the use of those corporations you mentioned, assuming btc is accepted.

It also happens in several countries that have not approved the full use of bitcoin in their country. Its citizens also still use cash for payments. And as long as bitcoins are not widely accepted, they will still use cash even though bitcoin can serve as a great alternative. It will also depend on how the government can play a role in introducing crypto to the public but it looks like it will still take time for bitcoin to be truly accepted in the country. And I don't think that cash will disappear but maybe it will transform into digital money.

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Quote from: Yatsan on December 15, 2022, 09:38:12 AM

You cannot imagine? That is already what is happening on our daily transactions using fiat and to some instances, including ceyptocurrencies especially if you are withdrawing some of your funds or profit. We have to accept it; linkage of governments to any transaction which are being done on a daily basis. From buying market goods, paying service and more; there is a usage of 'third party' and that is already the government. One main reason why we won't be able to get rid of it is simply because of the 'system' existing inside and outside this industry.

When it comes on making use of decentralization of this industry for a long run, I think there will always be people to prefer fiat because of consistency with the price. Fiat transactions indeed has higher fees but for sure it is more convenient to the majority.

Not really, when you live in hyperinflation you quickly realize how useless fiat is. You pay in currency x but they want equivalent of currency y, so it doesn't matter if you pay with currency z they just want the equivalent of currency y.

Until currency y too crashes in a spiral of hyperinflation, then something else is used. Anything like cans of tuna, cigarettes or whatever. Those who talk about "convenience" of fiat have only lived with the "strong ones" forgetting that those too, can fall since they have the same flaws, as seen with the pandemic they all printed even more than usual just because they can, and only now some people are noticing.

The State issued fiat currency. Who issued bitcoins? The people independently who participated in the mining at some point. For the first time in history we have a real global currency, and no State issued it which is brilliant, we sidestepped the system. State or Bank can adopt it if they want, it doesn't matter to us. Sure its more "convenient", but not necessary, it will work with or without them, which is why it has so much value.

Yatsan

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Quote from: Bitstar_coin on December 15, 2022, 01:54:43 AM

That is not the case here in my country, cash is still heavily in use here even though the government is pushing hard for a cashless economy but it is not the same as the situation you have described above, I can't imagine how hard and frustrating such situation will be when the third party is in charge of every of your payment.
Definitely, btc will serve as a great alternative in such a situation that way you will bypass the use of those corporations you mentioned, assuming btc is accepted.

You cannot imagine? That is already what is happening on our daily transactions using fiat and to some instances, including ceyptocurrencies especially if you are withdrawing some of your funds or profit. We have to accept it; linkage of governments to any transaction which are being done on a daily basis. From buying market goods, paying service and more; there is a usage of 'third party' and that is already the government. One main reason why we won't be able to get rid of it is simply because of the 'system' existing inside and outside this industry.

When it comes on making use of decentralization of this industry for a long run, I think there will always be people to prefer fiat because of consistency with the price. Fiat transactions indeed has higher fees but for sure it is more convenient to the majority.

Bitstar_coin

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That is not the case here in my country, cash is still heavily in use here even though the government is pushing hard for a cashless economy but it is not the same as the situation you have described above, I can't imagine how hard and frustrating such situation will be when the third party is in charge of every of your payment.
Definitely, btc will serve as a great alternative in such a situation that way you will bypass the use of those corporations you mentioned, assuming btc is accepted.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: proud55 on December 13, 2022, 01:00:40 PM

The last remaining use of cash and direct payments is Tipping.

The share of digital payments varies heavily from country to country. There are countries where over 70-80% of payments are cashless, there are also countries where only 20-30% are. I don't see any country officially adopting a policy of getting rid of cash entirely. That would create more problems than it solves, cash is a plan B for emergencies that render digital payments unavailable, it also works in places with poor or no connectivity, and so on.

davis196

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Quote from: proud55 on December 13, 2022, 01:00:40 PM

The less we use cash, the more we pay people through a corporation. The last remaining use of cash and direct payments is Tipping.
Everything else we must pay through a corporation. We cannot pay another human unless there is a corporation involved. As cash disappears this becomes a final fact -- a corporation involved in every financial transaction you pursue. In each transaction, the corporation is taking their percentage but also controls and monitors your transaction.

BTC

Bitcoin

I assume that you are speaking about yourself and your experience with payments in your country.
There are a bunch of advanced countries, that have developed something like a cashless society, but the vast majority of the countries around the world are still using cash on a daily basis. I don't really think that a truly cashless financial system will be implemented around the globe in the next decades. Such cashless system would dominated by the US dollar(with the euro having the second place), but the big Asian superpowers like Russia, China and India would most likely try to protect their national currencies from the US financial dominance and create their own financial block. Unfortunately, I don't see Bitcoin as a global alternative to the concept of cashless society.

rodskee

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Quote from: franky1 on December 13, 2022, 10:35:12 PM

10 years ago
a mobile fast food vendor never accepted debit cards because the hassle of setting up a merchant account was not worth it.(also fee's were not worth it)

now
the same mobile food vendor only accepts debit cards because it does not trust its employee's to handle the cash(pocketing cash was a cost not worth continuing)

so this comes to one thing that Machines are more trustworthy than Humans Grin

_____________________________________

OP Bitcoin will always be the best option(or at least some crypto) to use as payment because we are not paying anyone but the transaction(miner) .

so Yeah Bitcoin is always the best option to pay though the use is limited as there are still many countries that does not support crypto .

franky1

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10 years ago
a mobile fast food vendor never accepted debit cards because the hassle of setting up a merchant account was not worth it.(also fee's were not worth it)

now
the same mobile food vendor only accepts debit cards because it does not trust its employee's to handle the cash(pocketing cash was a cost not worth continuing)

dansus021

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for some reason you are actually very true, in fact is now happening in all over place, human nowadays use less cash than before. in small town in my country is using qr for their payment, in this qr accept all bank and all digital wallet. so basically it simple ready to use. the bank invented cardless also that we can withdraw money without a card.

i think the trend not using cash will keep growing since small merchant start to adapt and the government seems make a move to central bank digital currency

rat03gopoh

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Quote from: proud55 on December 13, 2022, 01:00:40 PM

The last remaining use of cash and direct payments is Tipping.

Not sure, usually the remaining transaction dust will be accumulated and can be reused to pay for something else. Unless with one-sided decisions they gradually erode users' money, but that's not a transparent way to be trusted.

Silberman

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Quote from: GeorgeJohn on December 13, 2022, 01:36:02 PM

Quote from: proud55 on December 13, 2022, 01:00:40 PM

The less we use cash, the more we pay people through a corporation. The last remaining use of cash and direct payments is Tipping.
Everything else we must pay through a corporation. We cannot pay another human unless there is a corporation involved. As cash disappears this becomes a final fact -- a corporation involved in every financial transaction you pursue. In each transaction, the corporation is taking their percentage but also controls and monitors your transaction.

BTC

Bitcoin

It depends the country you are into, because i believe that no corporation we are paying in my country once we make use of cash for any payment. I just on my own understand that, because i believe even with any other currencies which is not cash that corporation you are making reference of, will still be paid, do you realize that any transaction of Bitcoin you made theirs is a particular fees attached to it.

It is true that we are seeing more and more payments all over the world being made with electronic means of payment which means a bank or another similar business is the one that is processing the transaction, but this is a trend that seems almost impossible to reverse as governments have pushed for it for a long time, however it is because of this that bitcoin which is the equivalent of cash in electronic form needs to become more popular as it could save us from a future in which corporations control our spending completely.

Darker45

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I certainly agree. Cash is king. The moment cash is replaced with digital currencies, there is indeed no way money could be used directly. Everything would all go through a centralized platform. That's why a CBDC is definitely worse than cash.

But even with Bitcoin, there are often companies involved in the middle. There's BitPay, PayPal, BitcoinPay, and many others. There are personal wallets but are custodial. Even if not, you are still reliant on something developed by somebody else. Even in P2P, there is often still a need to use escrow. The money would still pass through somebody else's hand.

Topic: We No Longer Pay People Directly - page 2. (Read 487 times)