Topic: We were all heading to cheap bitcoins, until the manipulator stepped in (Read 4428 times)

this is by far the most ridiculous assertion I have read this week.

cool, so i and my 20-BTC-to-never-be-sold will be the only ones left? cool news mate!! im getting finally rich with bitcoins without beeing an early adopter! yay! now i can leave this forum buy myself a maibach, let the poor eat my trash and be the rich capitalist bastard i have always hated loved to be!

In that case though, anyone who didn't sell to the government would hold the entirety of the supply. Since bitcoin is divisible to 8 places, even if there were only 1 million of them left, that would still be plenty to facilitate trade.

Bitcoin cannot be shut down, because it would be impossible for any single person to own 100% of the supply. Even if only 1000 bitcoins remained, it would still function as it does today; only with the decimal point in a different position.

At that price, if anyone (e.g. a government) really wants to shut down BTC, all they would need to do is buy up as many coins as they can for <$21 million and never put them back into circulation. Lower prices are inherently more volatile, at least if anyone is trading.

that is not true since we are all waiting for cheap coins to buy. the cheaper they become, the more we want to buy, the more expensive they become --> it becomes less volatile the cheaper they get. don't mix it up with pennystocks (where there is always the risk of putting millions of new shares in the market, or the corporation going bancrupt at all, or pure speculation on an e.g. intelectual property not beeing good measureable in $ etc..

the fundamentals of bitcoin are different: there are only 21.000.000 max. solely this fact makes a comparison with extreme volatile pennystocks invalid.

just my thoughts..
greets

If I were to be selling goods/services for BTC, I'd probably have to tack on an extra 30% right now just to make sure I can get a reasonable payment. If the price of BTC is at $1 and I run a restaurant that accepts BTC, if my food costs me $10 for a plate normally I'd charge 15 BTC. If the price is $10 per BTC, I'd be more inclined to accept 1.1 BTC for the plate, and if the price is $100 per BTC (and has held steady for months at that level) I might just do a straight 1:1 pricing.

+1

This is why I have been questioning people why they think $1 BTC is a good thing. Its actually very bad because it won't take as much to manipulate the price.

But gewure, we don't even know where he acquired the funds in the first place. There's certainly potential for the money having come from an initial BTC investment sold for over $20 per BTC, and for all we know the same person that had huge, manipulative sell walls up in the past is the same person doing the large buy walls right now. When we had large sell walls, I'm sure others were complaining that it was manipulation by "the man" to keep the price down. The fact is, all we can really say is that we're in a volatile market, and the lower the price gets the more volatile it will become (e.g. penny stocks).

What does difficulty have to do with anything?  That's a random comment...  btw, processing power has been in the mid 7 Thps range for a while now.  Does that mean what ever you were hoping for form a 30% drop has been accomplished?

Replace $1 with $2 and that's how I've been feeling for weeks...

Things change

since i posted alot in similiar threads i feel beeing spoken to, partialy.
but i think some got me totally wrong: i am not questioning nor whining about the manipulator and him not beeing rational. he does what he believes serves him best, offcourse. and everybody inside here does the same, offcourse.

what i questioned was that some of you now take the price as balanced, clearly denying the obvious information that this walls can and probably will disappear as fast as they came: in about 20 seconds.

the comparison with microsoft lacks so much, i don't really know where to begin. maybe at the point, that microsoft sells stocks, not crypto currency? that there is an virtually unlimited amout of stocks they can give out? that the fucking company is made out of many people, not just one manipulator? that manipulations trough microsoft happens with the knowledge of nearly every shareholder? that there are annual meetings where the shareholder discuss if they should "manipulate"? that there is actual property behind the M$-stocks, not like bitcoin?!..

in my native language there is this slogan: not everything that is partly wrong is an comparison

the thing is: trying to psychologically manipulate the price above a level of natural balance (fake walls are NO real demand! he does NOT want people to sell into them, that is the point of manipulation!) that obvious will only delay the inevitable. regardless what happens, the market will find its price. thats what i want to say.

you are a wise guy. that is exactly what i mean with "stable": anything but not decreasing in worth all the time
..so "stable" could also be a price, which is slowly climbing, offcourse you got my point? stable is the moment, when the market is clearly no more longterm-bear but not yet longterm bull. just stable. just no more loosing worth.

Well that's probably why you are not a manipulator.  Someone who gets into the position to be one probably didn't get that way by wasting their time on things such as these forums.

The real market participants are surely keenly interested in the disposition of their counterparts, but they are unlikely to glean any useful information here.

Great post! I also think that a lot of the whining going on around here is due to to this 'jealousy'. If any of you had that level of capital, you would all be doing it too. You cannot criticize the 'manipulator' for wanting to protect his own interests. You are all doing it yourselves, albeit on a much smaller level. He is allowing us to find the bottom slowly and carefully, as opposed to the madness which would otherwise ensue if he didn't.

Yes, and then that order apparently disappeared. WTF? It's not showing up now, but I know I saw the price spike up to $2.25. Perhaps the manipulator is MtGox and they inadvertently queued an order, only to roll it back right after it started executing?

Update: Now it suddenly showed up again. Weird. Maybe it's just MtGoxLive not rendering properly for a short period (which would hardly be surprising).

Im still waiting for someone to create a pool to do some processing such as Folding @ Home for bitcoins. This is a real commerce and could easily be accomodated. CHOP CHOP People!

If I was manipulating such a large volume of currency I would be on these boards trying to spread as much misinformation as possible to the effect that I was going to do the exact opposite of what I was really doing. This is a relatively small community and there is a lot that could be learned/anticipated by the manipulator if they paid attention to this forum.

LOL. Good point proudhon.

Though I do think we can achieve a stable bitcoin, but ONLY when there is real commercial activity in the bitcoin economy. When people NEED to buy bitcoins to obtain goods or services, we will have real demand. So if the price falls, people will buy a LOT for their needs in the future. That is true stability and we will get there eventually.

If we want stability we all need to invest in bitcoin businesses, buy as many goods with bitcoin as we can, and use it as it was intended to be used rather than all this money being pumped into a casino game. If you don't want to use bitcoin, or don't believe that it will be accepted anywhere in the future, there is very little point in trading it. Just liquidate your holdings and give the coins to people who WILL use them properly.

QFT. How is what is happening BTC *not* finding it's balance? To suggest that the manipulators of the market sit back and watch and do nothing with their cash and/or BTC is naive at best, rampant stupidity at worst. It's like saying, "Hey, Microsoft -- tell all of your major share holders to never sell any of their shares so that the market can determine the real value of MSFT stock." While we're at it, will all of you people with USD stop buying or selling everything so that the market can determine the real value of USD? News flash: the manipulators (e.g. large BTC holders) are part of the market, and they will always exist. Why don't we just say instead, "Mr. Manipulator, we're jealous of the fact that you have a shload of BTC and USD to play around with on MtGox; will you please redistribute all of your wealth to the rest of us so that we can be equal?"

IIRC, the bid wall vanished for some time yesterday and the price rallied 5% or so.

The walls are just in place to help sweep up whatever lint is blowing around.

My take is that we have a small integer number of market participants only, and they are playing against one another...those of us who are not putting multi-K BTC block on the table are increasingly irrelevant.  That was plain to see in the latter half of yesterday.

I also doubt very seriously that the real market participants pay any attention whatsoever to what a few yahoos (myself very much included) write on these boards.  This aspect of the data is probably not even solid enough to get a feel for what lint is blowing around.