Web wallets with no transaction fees charged, for how long?

tee-rex

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Quote from: satmas on October 22, 2016, 04:46:48 PM

Quote from: pedrog on October 18, 2016, 11:12:35 AM

Yes, you can be asked to pay fees at any moment:

Quote

Does Coinbase pay miner fees?

Aug 23, 2016
Yes, Coinbase pays the miner fees on external transactions in order to ensure these transactions propagate throughout the bitcoin network quickly. For very small transaction amounts you may be prompted to pay the transaction / miner fee.

Miner fees are a small amount of digital currency that is included in transactions as a reward/incentive to the people who operate the network. They help the network continue to grow and provide an incentive for your transactions to be verified quickly.

Remember, Coinbase to Coinbase wallet transactions are always free of fees, no matter how much you are sending.

https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/815435

How is coinbase able to maintain fee-free transactions between coinbase wallets(second post of the thread)?

I think they are not using Bitcoin addresses for internal transfers. If you send money to your Coinbase wallet, you will soon see that the money gets moved from your address, where you have sent it, to some other address. In this fashion, when you transfer funds to someone else who is also using a Coinbase wallet wallet, the money doesn't get transferred anywhere. I mean transfers that result in transactions seen on the blockchain.

satmas

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Quote from: pedrog on October 18, 2016, 11:12:35 AM

Yes, you can be asked to pay fees at any moment:

Quote

Does Coinbase pay miner fees?

Aug 23, 2016
Yes, Coinbase pays the miner fees on external transactions in order to ensure these transactions propagate throughout the bitcoin network quickly. For very small transaction amounts you may be prompted to pay the transaction / miner fee.

Miner fees are a small amount of digital currency that is included in transactions as a reward/incentive to the people who operate the network. They help the network continue to grow and provide an incentive for your transactions to be verified quickly.

Remember, Coinbase to Coinbase wallet transactions are always free of fees, no matter how much you are sending.

https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/815435

How is coinbase able to maintain fee-free transactions between coinbase wallets(second post of the thread)?

tee-rex

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Quote from: bL4nkcode on October 22, 2016, 06:16:43 AM

Quote from: tee-rex on October 18, 2016, 11:05:32 AM

Xapo and Coinbase are web wallets which allow transferring bitcoins free of charge. Maybe, there are a few other wallets that do the same and pay the transaction fees for their users. But what would happen if Bitcoin price rises manyfold and the fees rise proportionately in fiat terms? Will these wallets raise the transfer amounts above which the network transaction fees will still be paid by themselves or will they just begin charging their clients the fees in full?

To mods, if this thread doesn't belong here, please move it to its home board.

I really doubt that this kind of service though I used this web wallets before when I started in bitcoin world. But time goes I changed my bitcoin wallet and I already thought that why they do this kind of service for free without charge, though its business and we know that business will run from the fee they get from their services or from their customers but this companies are different, seems like it smells Cry

Smells fishy? They might be earning in a lot of other ways to cover their expenses connected with paying miner fees. Coinbase as well as Xapo also issue Bitcoin payment cards, and I'm inclined to think that their fees are not small. But even before setting out with payment cards, both wallets had been heavily engaged in exchange operations. On this account, attracting new clients by offering free of charge transactions might have paid off really well in the long run.

bL4nkcode

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Quote from: tee-rex on October 18, 2016, 11:05:32 AM

Xapo and Coinbase are web wallets which allow transferring bitcoins free of charge. Maybe, there are a few other wallets that do the same and pay the transaction fees for their users. But what would happen if Bitcoin price rises manyfold and the fees rise proportionately in fiat terms? Will these wallets raise the transfer amounts above which the network transaction fees will still be paid by themselves or will they just begin charging their clients the fees in full?

To mods, if this thread doesn't belong here, please move it to its home board.

I really doubt that this kind of service though I used this web wallets before when I started in bitcoin world. But time goes I changed my bitcoin wallet and I already thought that why they do this kind of service for free without charge, though its business and we know that business will run from the fee they get from their services or from their customers but this companies are different, seems like it smells Cry

tee-rex

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Quote from: neochiny on October 22, 2016, 12:17:42 AM

But this is when assuming that these 'free' exchanges do stay free, which I highly doubt. It's still a business after all. As long as they got their user base, they'll start charging especially if bitcoin fiat value rises really high. Or maybe selective fees, or a certain percent of the fees. One thing for sure is they won't lose out in any way.

That's the reason why I started this thread.

Some people here claim that the wallets that pay themselves for transactions instead of their clients are all-round Bitcoin businesses (which is hardly the case but still). Therefore, it would be irrelevant for them how high Bitcoin might shoot in this regard. Though this doesn't mean that they won't start charging mining fees one day, of course. But, on the other hand, if their payment of transaction fees and reimbursement of these expenses doesn't really involve fiat, there is no reason to start collecting fees other than to get more profits. Since there are quite a few web wallets in the Bitcoin world, the wallet that won't do that will get the prize. Then why others should undermine their business unless they first collude with regard to charging fees from their clients?

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Quote from: tee-rex on October 19, 2016, 12:35:10 PM

~
And will people continue to use Coinbase after they start charging fees? Also, what would happen if Bitcoin surges in price a dozen times and the transactional fees grow proportionately in terms of fiat thanks to that? Methinks, wallets like Coinbase would attract even more clientèle, especially in the case the transactional fees should grow to a burdensome percentage in respect to amounts typically transferred.
~
That might well be the case, and horrible if it is. But this alone won't make people stay away from these wallets.

That could very well be the case especially if bitcoin value to fiat rises in the tens of thousands fiat. Most people would definitely turn in droves to coinbase and such that will pay for their transaction fees. That way,they really could save some amount.

But this is when assuming that these 'free' exchanges do stay free, which I highly doubt. It's still a business after all. As long as they got their user base, they'll start charging especially if bitcoin fiat value rises really high. Or maybe selective fees, or a certain percent of the fees. One thing for sure is they won't lose out in any way.

tee-rex

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Quote from: Patatas on October 20, 2016, 09:02:32 AM

Quote from: tee-rex on October 18, 2016, 11:05:32 AM

Xapo and Coinbase are web wallets which allow transferring bitcoins free of charge.

Never used either.What else are you compromising for the few satoshi's saved as transaction fees ? Your anonymity I tell you.It is ethically wrong in the bitcoin world to do that.Against the correct use of bitcoins I'd say.

Methinks, people stick to web wallets primarily thanks to the ease of use, and not because they despise or just neglect the Bitcoin ethics, if there is any. Setting up and then keeping up a desktop wallet is not an easy task for the majority of ordinary Bitcoin users, who often have to ask someone to reinstall their Windows after it gets massively infested by all kinds of worms, trojans, and other malware.

Patatas

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Quote from: tee-rex on October 18, 2016, 11:05:32 AM

Xapo and Coinbase are web wallets which allow transferring bitcoins free of charge.

Never used either.What else are you compromising for the few satoshi's saved as transaction fees ? Your anonymity I tell you.It is ethically wrong in the bitcoin world to do that.Against the correct use of bitcoins I'd say.

Quote from: tee-rex on October 18, 2016, 11:05:32 AM

Maybe, there are a few other wallets that do the same and pay the transaction fees for their users. But what would happen if Bitcoin price rises manyfold and the fees rise proportionately in fiat terms? Will these wallets raise the transfer amounts above which the network transaction fees will still be paid by themselves or will they just begin charging their clients the fees in full?

No one knows.The rise in the price of bitcoins would hike the value of coins in your wallets as well so exchanges giving free transactions shouldn't be a problem.Blockchain.info does charge for tx,use that as an alternative.

tee-rex

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Quote from: cpfreeplz on October 19, 2016, 06:36:28 PM

Quote from: yayayo on October 19, 2016, 10:19:40 AM

Transactions without fees are the honey trap of services like Coinbase. They want to suck in as many people as possible to become the biggest exchange/wallet provider. Once they have reached their goal they will start to charge fees.

People should know that storing Bitcoin at centralized entities such as Coinbase, that are eager to please the governmental surveillance freaks is against the original idea of Bitcoin. Bitcoin was not born with the promise to make transactions as cheap as possible. Bitcoin's promise is individual financial independence through decentralization.

It's sad to see that so many people seem to forget about the original idea of Bitcoin and just fall for the old banker tricks. If you use Bitcoin via Coinbase, you can directly use Paypal - there is no difference in terms of restricting the use of your funds.

ya.ya.yo!

Exactly. Why would you deposit your bitcoins into some online shady bank for bitcoins? They try to look like normal everyday businesses but the harsh reality is, if you knew that a certain bank literally opened 5 years ago and is figuring it out as they go would you really trust your money with them? Now imagine you didn't have to trust anyone with your money (aka: what bitcoins are all about). Why the hell would you ever give them your money!?

Your analogy is evidently far from being correct. 5 years in Bitcoin is more like 50 years in the fiat world. Bitcoin itself is only some 7 years old. I'm more interested about what will happen to the Blockchain wallet if fees skyrocket. Will people transact less with bigger amounts, and the pains with the block size increase go away on their own? I'd like to hear the opinion of Coinbase and Xapo opponents on this.

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the transaction fee is a small proportion of what they're making on the spread or in fees when you're buying or selling from them.

if that's enough to entice you then maybe you should do some basic math and figure out whether it's worth it just for that. often it's still the cheapest option so it's a little bonus from them that might draw in more people.

cpfreeplz

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Quote from: yayayo on October 19, 2016, 10:19:40 AM

Transactions without fees are the honey trap of services like Coinbase. They want to suck in as many people as possible to become the biggest exchange/wallet provider. Once they have reached their goal they will start to charge fees.

People should know that storing Bitcoin at centralized entities such as Coinbase, that are eager to please the governmental surveillance freaks is against the original idea of Bitcoin. Bitcoin was not born with the promise to make transactions as cheap as possible. Bitcoin's promise is individual financial independence through decentralization.

It's sad to see that so many people seem to forget about the original idea of Bitcoin and just fall for the old banker tricks. If you use Bitcoin via Coinbase, you can directly use Paypal - there is no difference in terms of restricting the use of your funds.

ya.ya.yo!

Exactly. Why would you deposit your bitcoins into some online shady bank for bitcoins? They try to look like normal everyday businesses but the harsh reality is, if you knew that a certain bank literally opened 5 years ago and is figuring it out as they go would you really trust your money with them? Now imagine you didn't have to trust anyone with your money (aka: what bitcoins are all about). Why the hell would you ever give them your money!?

n691309

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Quote from: tee-rex on October 18, 2016, 11:05:32 AM

Xapo and Coinbase are web wallets which allow transferring bitcoins free of charge. Maybe, there are a few other wallets that do the same and pay the transaction fees for their users. But what would happen if Bitcoin price rises manyfold and the fees rise proportionately in fiat terms? Will these wallets raise the transfer amounts above which the network transaction fees will still be paid by themselves or will they just begin charging their clients the fees in full?

To mods, if this thread doesn't belong here, please move it to its home board.

If they had only this service like the wallet service and paying the fees then this could be a little harder for them but since they have other sources to generate money like the exchange they are able to cover these fees, but everything is relative it doesn't mean they will change this one day.

tee-rex

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Quote from: erikalui on October 19, 2016, 01:04:01 PM

The wallets do not look at the fiat prices as they know how to manage paying the transaction fee. They deal in bitcoins and not in fiat and hence, even if 0.0001 BTC is worth $1, it doesn't matter. Coinbase and Xapo don't give a user the wallet and withhold the private keys thus using their own funds when a user spends their coins. They also handle multiple transactions at a time to manage the fee and their own exchange too and the money we receive is saved in terms of their fiat price and not blockchain rates. They delay sending small transactions due to the fee being more than the amount.

That's what I think myself. In such circumstances, even more people will start to use these free of charge wallets. Who would want to pay 10% of the transacted amount as transaction fees to transfer some $10 in bitcoins? Right now $10 equals ~0.016 BTC, and there should be a lot of such transactions as well as transactions with amounts less than that, while the usual network fee of 10k satoshi equals only ~0.6% of that amount.

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Quote from: amacar2 on October 19, 2016, 01:21:17 PM

Quote from: bitdumper on October 18, 2016, 01:27:50 PM

xapo is using bank stratgys and i am supprised why they are not getting bandded by public because mtgox also hit that mistake i am sure most pf the prople hate less control over their wallets

Even though public know xapo and coinbase are using same banking system to send fee less transactions between two accounts people will keep on using it being greedy. But i think the main objective of bitcoin is to remain anonymous when doing transaction and with such wallets privacy will be wide open to public.

Unfortunately Bitcoin transactions in the future couldn't stay totaly anonimous. If we want use services like Xapo and Coinbase, so some added value to the Bitcoin, we should give up a part of our privacy. These services have to obey some regulations if they want to keep their business legitimate so there is a price to be paid. Price is privacy.

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Quote from: bitdumper on October 18, 2016, 01:27:50 PM

xapo is using bank stratgys and i am supprised why they are not getting bandded by public because mtgox also hit that mistake i am sure most pf the prople hate less control over their wallets

Even though public know xapo and coinbase are using same banking system to send fee less transactions between two accounts people will keep on using it being greedy. But i think the main objective of bitcoin is to remain anonymous when doing transaction and with such wallets privacy will be wide open to public.

bitdumper

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wallets with no transaction fees is simply an danger indication i am not saying that they will run away but i want to say they just lost you privacy think and they are also using banks stratgys to transact money

erikalui

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The wallets do not look at the fiat prices as they know how to manage paying the transaction fee. They deal in bitcoins and not in fiat and hence, even if 0.0001 BTC is worth $1, it doesn't matter. Coinbase and Xapo don't give a user the wallet and withhold the private keys thus using their own funds when a user spends their coins. They also handle multiple transactions at a time to manage the fee and their own exchange too and the money we receive is saved in terms of their fiat price and not blockchain rates. They delay sending small transactions due to the fee being more than the amount.

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If you are in US it is worth getting a Coinbase account just for the Shift card.

tee-rex

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Quote from: yayayo on October 19, 2016, 10:19:40 AM

Transactions without fees are the honey trap of services like Coinbase. They want to suck in as many people as possible to become the biggest exchange/wallet provider. Once they have reached their goal they will start to charge fees

And will people continue to use Coinbase after they start charging fees? Also, what would happen if Bitcoin surges in price a dozen times and the transactional fees grow proportionately in terms of fiat thanks to that? Methinks, wallets like Coinbase would attract even more clientèle, especially in the case the transactional fees should grow to a burdensome percentage in respect to amounts typically transferred.

Quote from: yayayo on October 19, 2016, 10:19:40 AM

People should know that storing Bitcoin at centralized entities such as Coinbase, that are eager to please the governmental surveillance freaks is against the original idea of Bitcoin. Bitcoin was not born with the promise to make transactions as cheap as possible. Bitcoin's promise is individual financial independence through decentralization.

That might well be the case, and horrible if it is. But this alone won't make people stay away from these wallets.

yayayo

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Transactions without fees are the honey trap of services like Coinbase. They want to suck in as many people as possible to become the biggest exchange/wallet provider. Once they have reached their goal they will start to charge fees.

People should know that storing Bitcoin at centralized entities such as Coinbase, that are eager to please the governmental surveillance freaks is against the original idea of Bitcoin. Bitcoin was not born with the promise to make transactions as cheap as possible. Bitcoin's promise is individual financial independence through decentralization.

It's sad to see that so many people seem to forget about the original idea of Bitcoin and just fall for the old banker tricks. If you use Bitcoin via Coinbase, you can directly use Paypal - there is no difference in terms of restricting the use of your funds.

ya.ya.yo!

Topic: Web wallets with no transaction fees charged, for how long? (Read 987 times)