Topic: Western Union - First Large Corporation To Be Killed By Bitcoin (Read 5059 times)
It's transferring the small amounts that is comparatively expensive.
I mean, the first real-world killer app of Bitcoin is for overseas workers to send remittances back to their families without obsolete companies like Western Union stealing a large chunk of it in what amounts to an unfair tax.
Sorry but that ain't gonna happen until we get multiple reliable exchanges in each country.
I regularly transfer reasonably large sums of fiat between two first-world countries, neither of which have credible means of exchange between BTC & fiat. In the meantime, the fees at the leading FOREX brokers work out less than 0.5%, excluding the spread.
Wow!! I cant believe this thread...
In the last month, I've 'lost' money I've wired into bitcoin24 trying to buy bitcoins, I've got a wire into MtGox that hasn't been acknowledge in over 2 days yet, but... Just yesterday I logged into my Western Union account online and sent US dollars; from a non-US country, to another, different non-US country and the money was available in minutes to a person who could go almost anywhere and pick it up.
In the last month, I've 'lost' money I've wired into bitcoin24 trying to buy bitcoins, I've got a wire into MtGox that hasn't been acknowledge in over 2 days yet, but... Just yesterday I logged into my Western Union account online and sent US dollars; from a non-US country, to another, different non-US country and the money was available in minutes to a person who could go almost anywhere and pick it up.
Exactly. BTC has a future, but it's a long way away from any proper usage, but on here there's a lot of people just drinking the BTC cool-aid, happy that the coin that is currently used mainly to speculate, invest and gamble is going to $1000USD etc.
Threads about actual usage for international money transfers are pretty absent.
It's just a matter of setting up local exchanges. In fact, the currency wouldn't even leave the country, because often times the flow of remittances is offset by the flow of money from corrupt elites in the opposite direction.
Case in point Uzbekistan. Remittances from Russia make 13% of the country's GDP, but President's daughter has "millions of dollars" in foreign accounts, according to FT March 7, 2013 article.
Wow!! I cant believe this thread...
In the last month, I've 'lost' money I've wired into bitcoin24 trying to buy bitcoins, I've got a wire into MtGox that hasn't been acknowledge in over 2 days yet, but... Just yesterday I logged into my Western Union account online and sent US dollars; from a non-US country, to another, different non-US country and the money was available in minutes to a person who could go almost anywhere and pick it up.
WU has nothing to worry about...especially after asicminer destroys the whole economy anyway.
In the last month, I've 'lost' money I've wired into bitcoin24 trying to buy bitcoins, I've got a wire into MtGox that hasn't been acknowledge in over 2 days yet, but... Just yesterday I logged into my Western Union account online and sent US dollars; from a non-US country, to another, different non-US country and the money was available in minutes to a person who could go almost anywhere and pick it up.
WU has nothing to worry about...especially after asicminer destroys the whole economy anyway.
You have something to worry about - lack of long term perspective.
Wow!! I cant believe this thread...
In the last month, I've 'lost' money I've wired into bitcoin24 trying to buy bitcoins, I've got a wire into MtGox that hasn't been acknowledge in over 2 days yet, but... Just yesterday I logged into my Western Union account online and sent US dollars; from a non-US country, to another, different non-US country and the money was available in minutes to a person who could go almost anywhere and pick it up.
WU has nothing to worry about...especially after asicminer destroys the whole economy anyway.
In the last month, I've 'lost' money I've wired into bitcoin24 trying to buy bitcoins, I've got a wire into MtGox that hasn't been acknowledge in over 2 days yet, but... Just yesterday I logged into my Western Union account online and sent US dollars; from a non-US country, to another, different non-US country and the money was available in minutes to a person who could go almost anywhere and pick it up.
WU has nothing to worry about...especially after asicminer destroys the whole economy anyway.
You have something to worry about - lack of long term perspective.
Show us a real example of how a Filipino maid working in UAE can send it home to a family member in BTC and they can then spend the BTC on their rent and food and I'll start to be convinced WU is at risk.
You are correct; however WU business is not only to or between developing countries. Along with moneygram its also often used to pay for B2B transactions in China, Taiwan etc. Just look at Alibaba. Those kind of transactions could be handled by bitcoin too, as the recipients would generally be sophisticated enough to handle or sell their bitcoins. How much of WU's business that represents, I have no idea, but I doubt its trivial.
Wow!! I cant believe this thread...
In the last month, I've 'lost' money I've wired into bitcoin24 trying to buy bitcoins, I've got a wire into MtGox that hasn't been acknowledge in over 2 days yet, but... Just yesterday I logged into my Western Union account online and sent US dollars; from a non-US country, to another, different non-US country and the money was available in minutes to a person who could go almost anywhere and pick it up.
In the last month, I've 'lost' money I've wired into bitcoin24 trying to buy bitcoins, I've got a wire into MtGox that hasn't been acknowledge in over 2 days yet, but... Just yesterday I logged into my Western Union account online and sent US dollars; from a non-US country, to another, different non-US country and the money was available in minutes to a person who could go almost anywhere and pick it up.
Exactly. BTC has a future, but it's a long way away from any proper usage, but on here there's a lot of people just drinking the BTC cool-aid, happy that the coin that is currently used mainly to speculate, invest and gamble is going to $1000USD etc.
Threads about actual usage for international money transfers are pretty absent.
Wow!! I cant believe this thread...
In the last month, I've 'lost' money I've wired into bitcoin24 trying to buy bitcoins, I've got a wire into MtGox that hasn't been acknowledge in over 2 days yet, but... Just yesterday I logged into my Western Union account online and sent US dollars; from a non-US country, to another, different non-US country and the money was available in minutes to a person who could go almost anywhere and pick it up.
WU has nothing to worry about...especially after asicminer destroys the whole economy anyway.
In the last month, I've 'lost' money I've wired into bitcoin24 trying to buy bitcoins, I've got a wire into MtGox that hasn't been acknowledge in over 2 days yet, but... Just yesterday I logged into my Western Union account online and sent US dollars; from a non-US country, to another, different non-US country and the money was available in minutes to a person who could go almost anywhere and pick it up.
WU has nothing to worry about...especially after asicminer destroys the whole economy anyway.
ALL HAIL THE GREAT AND WISE!
THE OMNIFICENT!
THE MAGNANIMOUS OVERLORD OF THE POOR AND THE HUNGRY!
The Western Union....
BWAFFAFAFAFAF!
Wow!! I cant believe this thread...
In the last month, I've 'lost' money I've wired into bitcoin24 trying to buy bitcoins, I've got a wire into MtGox that hasn't been acknowledge in over 2 days yet, but... Just yesterday I logged into my Western Union account online and sent US dollars; from a non-US country, to another, different non-US country and the money was available in minutes to a person who could go almost anywhere and pick it up.
WU has nothing to worry about...especially after asicminer destroys the whole economy anyway.
In the last month, I've 'lost' money I've wired into bitcoin24 trying to buy bitcoins, I've got a wire into MtGox that hasn't been acknowledge in over 2 days yet, but... Just yesterday I logged into my Western Union account online and sent US dollars; from a non-US country, to another, different non-US country and the money was available in minutes to a person who could go almost anywhere and pick it up.
WU has nothing to worry about...especially after asicminer destroys the whole economy anyway.
ALL HAIL THE GREAT AND WISE!
THE OMNIFICENT!
THE MAGNANIMOUS OVERLORD OF THE POOR AND THE HUNGRY!
The Western Union....
BWAFFAFAFAFAF!
Wow!! I cant believe this thread...
In the last month, I've 'lost' money I've wired into bitcoin24 trying to buy bitcoins, I've got a wire into MtGox that hasn't been acknowledge in over 2 days yet, but... Just yesterday I logged into my Western Union account online and sent US dollars; from a non-US country, to another, different non-US country and the money was available in minutes to a person who could go almost anywhere and pick it up.
WU has nothing to worry about...especially after asicminer destroys the whole economy anyway.
In the last month, I've 'lost' money I've wired into bitcoin24 trying to buy bitcoins, I've got a wire into MtGox that hasn't been acknowledge in over 2 days yet, but... Just yesterday I logged into my Western Union account online and sent US dollars; from a non-US country, to another, different non-US country and the money was available in minutes to a person who could go almost anywhere and pick it up.
WU has nothing to worry about...especially after asicminer destroys the whole economy anyway.
And bloody Western Union's currency exchange fee!! Biggest joke ever.
DOWN WITH WU
DOWN WITH WU
They have been around for 160 years so they're doing something right, and clearly they adopt new tech, so they get my respect,
I don't have that much respect for a corporation that bilks immigrants for fees as high as 30% to transfer money to their families.
I'd say they're a perfect target for a bitcoin entrepreneur. If you think about it, WU is part of the global "race to the bottom" parasitic chain...
you are kidding right... you know that kind of ridiculous shit is caused by government right. There is no way on earth WU could stay in business if it was just raking in 30% profit on the movement of money from one place to another.... Hell id get in my car and start driving money around if i was able to charge 30% premium and keep it for myself. You have to know that there is no way in hell WU would have to charge anything like that in a free market. Its very difficult and costly for a company like western union to get fiat from one jurisdiction into another.
Well how much DO the feds skim off WU? I'm sure it all depends how many congressmen they've bribed?
Even if WU had to split the 30% 50/50 with Uncle Sam, I'd still see no reason to shed a tear for their CEO.
Obviously they're able to make big money because:
* They have a near-monopoly
* The majority of their customers don't speak English well, nor are they good at math
* They do a large number of small transactions
Other posters have a point that there will be friction when converting BTC to/from local currency, but I still think the business is ripe for some competition.
Not if the alternative is WU at 30% fees.
Where are WU fees 30%?
The WU global average fee is about 5%. The countries where this is higher is intra-Africa i.e. from one african country to another, but the volume of these transactions are small.
The vast majority of WU transactions are from the developed world to the third world and the fees 10% or less. To replace these with BTC both parties would need computers or mobiles and an ability to spend it in BTC, otherwise they'll just get charged by someone else to change it into cash.
Show us a real example of how a Filipino maid working in UAE can send it home to a family member in BTC and they can then spend the BTC on their rent and food and I'll start to be convinced WU is at risk.
5%?
?Here's the linky for calculating rates and total costs.
https://wumt.westernunion.com/WUCOMWEB/priceShopperRedirectAction.do?method=load&countryCode=US&languageCode=en
Note they make money on the currency translation as well as on the 'moving of the money'. For the phillipine peso they do an exchange rate of 39.7, but standard at this moment is 40.9, and street is 50.
I assume you would agree with using the street exchange price, and then including the fees, there's your 30%. More or less.
Not if the alternative is WU at 30% fees.
Where are WU fees 30%?
The WU global average fee is about 5%. The countries where this is higher is intra-Africa i.e. from one african country to another, but the volume of these transactions are small.
The vast majority of WU transactions are from the developed world to the third world and the fees 10% or less. To replace these with BTC both parties would need computers or mobiles and an ability to spend it in BTC, otherwise they'll just get charged by someone else to change it into cash.
Show us a real example of how a Filipino maid working in UAE can send it home to a family member in BTC and they can then spend the BTC on their rent and food and I'll start to be convinced WU is at risk.
Plenty of big companies have died through history, just as new corporations grow and flourish, not to sound like the Lion King but it's the corporate 'Circle of Life'. Changing technology and consumer behaviour causes both.
Regarding Western Union and any other money transfer business, these are the businesses that absolutely face the most threat from BTC. However two things need to happen before it's an issue:
1. The recipients need to be able to spend the BTC directly on goods and services (like food and rent) in predominantly third-world countries, or not get charged fortunes in converting back to Fiat.
2. BTC needs to be more stable. Unless entire economies are denominated in BTC (which will NEVER happen) then exchange rates matter and there's no point sending someone 100USD in BTC to find it's 95USD by the time they convert it back because it's value has moved.
western union has the advantage of being physically available and known, as well as working in a stable currency. I dont think its going to disappear from bitcoin.
They have been around for 160 years so they're doing something right, and clearly they adopt new tech, so they get my respect,
I don't have that much respect for a corporation that bilks immigrants for fees as high as 30% to transfer money to their families.
I'd say they're a perfect target for a bitcoin entrepreneur. If you think about it, WU is part of the global "race to the bottom" parasitic chain...
you are kidding right... you know that kind of ridiculous shit is caused by government right. There is no way on earth WU could stay in business if it was just raking in 30% profit on the movement of money from one place to another.... Hell id get in my car and start driving money around if i was able to charge 30% premium and keep it for myself. You have to know that there is no way in hell WU would have to charge anything like that in a free market. Its very difficult and costly for a company like western union to get fiat from one jurisdiction into another.
You're wrong because just as easily you can send someone 100USD BTC and by time they get it its worth $110. This would encourage more people to use it instead of fiat which always inflates.
Rubbish. When I send someone 100USD it's because they want 100USD, not some amount of money that might be more or might be less....
2. BTC needs to be more stable. Unless entire economies are denominated in BTC (which will NEVER happen) then exchange rates matter and there's no point sending someone 100USD in BTC to find it's 95USD by the time they convert it back because it's value has moved.
There's an old story about the Weimar hyperinflation:
A man steps into a cafe and orders a cup of coffee priced at 6 million marks. He sits down, reads the newspaper, finishes his coffee, and orders another cup. When the waiter brings the bill, it's for 14 million marks. He protests that 6 million times 2 is 12 million. The waiter replies "Next time, please order both cups in advance. While you were reading the newspaper, the price of a cup of coffee went up to 8 million marks".
2. BTC needs to be more stable. Unless entire economies are denominated in BTC (which will NEVER happen) then exchange rates matter and there's no point sending someone 100USD in BTC to find it's 95USD by the time they convert it back because it's value has moved.
You're wrong because just as easily you can send someone 100USD BTC and by time they get it its worth $110. This would encourage more people to use it instead of fiat which always inflates.
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