Topic: What about adding debt support in Bitcoin ? - page 2. (Read 2364 times)

And how do they force people to pack back? do they ask for private information i guess? like ID and whatnot.

Just wondering how we will end up controlling debt issuance. I'm afraid it will end up just like the fiat system. I'm a bit reserved with the suggestion.

You are free to create a "debt coin" if you like (I suspect no-one will use it though).

Those of us who prefer "real money" rather than "debt money" (around 99% of people that use Bitcoin IMO) are not the slightest bit interested in your idea though (do you work for the banking industry?).

You should read the list of rules "that will never be changed" in Bitcoin before suggesting something that is clearly against those rules (it's in the Wiki somewhere - maybe someone else could provide the link).

For someone who claims to have been lurking around to learn about Bitcoin for a year it seems strange to me that you don't get the fundamentals of its purpose (most people *get it* within a few minutes by watching a video like WeUseCoins).

Maybe im reading your post wrong but it sounds like your thinking bitcoin will take over as the no1 world currency which i dont think will ever happen.
There is already companies like bitcoinjam were users can borrow BTC and pay back with interest, so in effect they are in debt until the BTC plus intrest is paid back.

You are right though, the whole world runs off an ever increasing debt level.
Before anything like this could work, whoever wants to borrow or get bailed out via btc would need he people their in debt with accept bitcoin.
It is still an interesting idea, i would like to hear more,

Hello,

It is probably my first post here, but I've been lurking at several places and learning bitcoin for almost a year now.

I noticed that something is never mentionned in discussions, and it is the question of debt. In the real world, when a debt is created, the equivalent amount of money is created. Actually, there is even more debt than there is money supply at a given time.

However it is clear that this is not possible with bitcoin, since coins creation obey very specific rules, and the number of coins will never exceed 21 millions.

It is in my opinion the greatest entry barrier for a large adoption of bitcoin in any country. I am a Software Engineer too, and you know that when we design new products, it's rarely a good idea to say "anyway, this very used feature of the old system was rubbish". And I think it's especially the case here, because modern societies are all based on debt. I'm not saying debt is good or bad. I'm just saying, it is a used feature that should be taken into account in bitcoin. Because the objective of bitcoin wasn't to destroy debt, and trustless value transfer system is probably able to support debt too if we adapt its meaning.

Debt, is highly correlated with the ability to create money. I have an idea where debt would be a specific transaction type in the bitcoin protocol.

Basically, every node (even user only nodes) would be able to issue any debt they want, but the value of what they issue would be the value that the receiver attributes to the node. It's not a technical matter, I'm talking about the value they attribute to that person in the real world.

For example, if a perfect stranger tells  you you are a good person, you thanks him but it has little value for you. On the other hand, if your mother tells you the same thing it has a great value for you.

Similarly, if a country, who has obliged all merchants on its territory to accept its "bitcoin debt currency" as a payment mean, issue you some debt, it will have a great value for you. However, if I issue you 1 million units of my "personal debt currency", it would have little value for you, but I still can do it.

In practice, countries might have to make larger political agreements, to accept each others debt currencies - that we might preferably call : allowancies - but the idea is here. And the concept of allowance will also be useful for example for merchant who would issue them instead of fidelity cards, etc.

People might also use them for professional references. For example, as a professional I mention a bitcoin  adress on my website, and then when people go and check for transactions of type : "Allowance", they would see the one I've issued and the one I've received to and from people and companies along with a comment for example. And we can imagine that the higher the number is, the better they appreciated us.

It might sound odd because we  see the bitcoin currency as the only thing having value in the bitcoin network. But exchanging value doesn't mean that I want/need to exchange bitcoins, and as long as I do it in a decentralized way, with no indexation on fiat currencies etc... we're still along with Satoshi's vision.

But the point here is that by simply implementing this transaction type, countries will move from fearing bitcoin because it threatens their financial soveignty, to loving it because it would allow them to create money without cost, and without depending on any central bank, or foreign country.

Bitcoin would be as gold whose value is intrinsec and whose value is valued by everybody.

Finally, I think that is important that it  be supported by the official bitcoin network.

Before working our a proposal I'd like to know what are your views on that.

Thanks