What about the lost BTC? - page 4. | Bitcointalksearch.org

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Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 07:07:20 AM

I was reading about some cases of people who had many BTC at a time when it has low or no value at all, and didn't care about it, so they eventually lost their security phrases, or hard wallets and now it is lost probably forever.

I've read that the amount that is considered lost can be up to 5 million BTC. That is about 1/4 of the total amount available.

Knowing that BTC has a limit, and we're getting there soon, isn't it possible to have some compensation for those lost BTC?

Something like adding more BTC in an equivalent amount for those lost BTC, or something similar.

Would it be positive for the currency or could bring some caos?

If someone can't recover his private key or hardware wallet, he has no chance to recover his bitcoins.because the security of Bitcoin depends entirely on the security phrase.so not your key not your bitcoin. So you must take care of Bitcoin and for that you take care of private key. Otherwise you will lose your bitcoins forever. so people who lose bitcoins will never get those bitcoins back if they can't recover the private key.

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Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 07:07:20 AM

I was reading about some cases of people who had many BTC at a time when it has low or no value at all, and didn't care about it, so they eventually lost their security phrases, or hard wallets and now it is lost probably forever.

I've read that the amount that is considered lost can be up to 5 million BTC. That is about 1/4 of the total amount available.

Knowing that BTC has a limit, and we're getting there soon, isn't it possible to have some compensation for those lost BTC?

Something like adding more BTC in an equivalent amount for those lost BTC, or something similar.

Would it be positive for the currency or could bring some caos?

Bitcoin system does not work like that, it is either you keep your coin very well and have access to it in your wallet(s) or you lose it forever. However, that's if you are using the self-custody arrangements. But if you are using the custodial arrangement, you may have no issues, you can reset certain passcodes, or contact their support for guidance on how to retrieve your coin. The choice is ours in either case.

Also, unless Satoshi is not a man of his word, no one will revisit anything when it comes to the capped 21 million market supply. This is one of what makes Bitcoin unique and not the lost coins can change this. Bitcoin is a different blockchain mechanism that is so different from other cryptocurrencies, but the moment they start altering it for whatever reason, the worse it will become.

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Quote from: seoincorporation on February 14, 2024, 02:52:15 PM

Quote from: LesterD on February 14, 2024, 02:35:28 PM

Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 07:07:20 AM

I was reading about some cases of people who had many BTC at a time when it has low or no value at all, and didn't care about it, so they eventually lost their security phrases, or hard wallets and now it is lost probably forever.

I've read that the amount that is considered lost can be up to 5 million BTC. That is about 1/4 of the total amount available.

Knowing that BTC has a limit, and we're getting there soon, isn't it possible to have some compensation for those lost BTC?

Something like adding more BTC in an equivalent amount for those lost BTC, or something similar.

Would it be positive for the currency or could bring some caos?

That is not possible. Those Bitcoins will be lost forever and will never be moved unless those users have a miracle and get access again with their wallets. When you say compensation for those lost BTC, do you mean they will get a replacement or the missing Bitcoins will be added again to the circulating supply?

Lost bitcoins can be recovered if someone finds the address's private key, is hard to find those keys, but is possible that someone will do so in the future. But is important to remember Satoshi's words about this topic:

Lost coins only make everyone else's worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone

So, lost coins isn't bad at all for the network.

That's exactly what I said. If there's a miracle that they happen to have access again with their wallets, or simply find the private key on it, they can recover their lost Bitcoin. If not, there is no chance for him to recover it. Even if he try multiple combination of private keys, nothing will happen.

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Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 07:07:20 AM

Knowing that BTC has a limit, and we're getting there soon, isn't it possible to have some compensation for those lost BTC?
Would it be positive for the currency or could bring some chaos?

This is a commendable idea because it would make those who lost their BTC really happy BUT it would certainly create only chaos in the whole Bitcoin network and market. Now, maybe in extension with your idea there can be another coin that would instead be used as compensation for those lost Bitcoin but then again the question of distribution can be a big problem. So better us stick to what has happened...lost Bitcoin are forever lost there is no way to recover them and that is why there is a big reminder to holders to make sure all safeguards are in placed...just like the fiat money once you lost them then most probably you lost them for good.

OcTradism

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Quote from: Ale88 on February 16, 2024, 07:15:08 PM

What you are proposing goes against bitcoin itself. Satoshi knew since the beginning that a good portion of bitcoins would have gone lost forever, and he was fine with that, so why should you worry? I am extremely against adding you bitcoin because that would mean giving space to many other changes in the future, and bitcoin would lose what made it special.

Satoshi only posted his opinion on lost bitcoin.

Quote from: satoshi on June 21, 2010, 12:48:26 PM

Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone.

He only can guess that there will be people who explore bitcoin by curiosity but don't back up wallets and later they will lose bitcoins. Satoshi Nakamoto doesn't have issue with people who lost bitcoins because it is not Satoshi Nakamoto's bitcoins. He and we can not control assets owned by others so it is not our problems to feel headache.

If they lost bitcoins, but we don't lose our bitcoins, we can celebrate it because lost bitcoins make accessible bitcoins more valuable by decreasing circulating supply of Bitcoin.

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Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 07:07:20 AM

I was reading about some cases of people who had many BTC at a time when it has low or no value at all, and didn't care about it, so they eventually lost their security phrases, or hard wallets and now it is lost probably forever.

I've read that the amount that is considered lost can be up to 5 million BTC. That is about 1/4 of the total amount available.

Knowing that BTC has a limit, and we're getting there soon, isn't it possible to have some compensation for those lost BTC?

Something like adding more BTC in an equivalent amount for those lost BTC, or something similar.

Would it be positive for the currency or could bring some caos?

What you are proposing goes against bitcoin itself. Satoshi knew since the beginning that a good portion of bitcoins would have gone lost forever, and he was fine with that, so why should you worry? I am extremely against adding you bitcoin because that would mean giving space to many other changes in the future, and bitcoin would lose what made it special.

letteredhub

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Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 07:07:20 AM

Something like adding more BTC in an equivalent amount for those lost BTC, or something similar.

Assuming this idea of yours is agreed to be taken into consideration how do we know the rightful owners of each respective lost bitcoin since they can't even prove the ownership to it with their seed phrase lost, and mind you it's only through the seed phrase that makes you an owner of a coin/wallet which without you can't spend the coins in the wallet. That's why your idea can be possible.

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Quote from: DeathAngel on February 15, 2024, 03:20:37 PM

“Lost coins only make everyone else’s coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone”
~ Satoshi Nakamoto

/thread

When Satoshi Nakamato was active on the forum the things you mentioned may have been said but now Satoshi Nakamato himself is in hiding and so far his existence has not been ascertained. As many are predicting about Satoshi Nakamato's Wallet Bitcoin if Satoshi Nakamato is not alive on Earth then Satoshi Nakamato's Wallet Bitcoin will be lost forever it will be considered dedicated to everyone.

That's a great donation. I wonder if he's dead or just really doesn't want to use his Bitcoin. I guess we'll never find out.

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Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 07:07:20 AM

Something like adding more BTC in an equivalent amount for those lost BTC, or something similar.

It is not possible to add more supply for Bitcoin. It's a fixed supply and the last Bitcoin will be mined after a century and more.

Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 07:07:20 AM

Would it be positive for the currency or could bring some caos?

If you think adding more, it's going to bring chaos. But if it's about the lost Bitcoins, they're making your and mine bitcoins rarer and that adds more value to it.

Quote from: DeathAngel on February 15, 2024, 03:20:37 PM

“Lost coins only make everyone else’s coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone”
~ Satoshi Nakamoto

/thread

This!

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Quote from: DeathAngel on February 15, 2024, 03:20:37 PM

“Lost coins only make everyone else’s coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone”
~ Satoshi Nakamoto

/thread

+1

This is the first thing I remember when I saw this thread.
It just happened you quoted it first Cheesy

This statement from Satoshi Nakamoto before is a simple yet straightforward explanation for the one what OP stated. If you really think and analyze it is indeed correct and applies.

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Once lost, it’s as good as lost forever, unless if you recover your password or seed phrases, you will retrieve your stored bitcoins. However, asking for a compensation from the market will never be possible. You are the only one responsible of your investment, if you are not wary and is not cautious, you will definitely lost track of your bitcoin hodlings. So as much as possible, if you are not yet capable to safely store some bitcoin, then never do the risk, otherwise our funds and time will only only go into waste.

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“Lost coins only make everyone else’s coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone”
~ Satoshi Nakamoto

/thread

Benedictare

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Bitcoin creator has Satoshi has made it clearer from the beginning that passwords and private keys should be kept properly because Bitcoin has no where to store , provide and retrieve passwords and so the ironkey allow users to guess upto ten times before permanently removing it's content.

This means that if your Bitcoin wallet is lost it's gone forever can't be retrieved which makes it not accessible and the lost Bitcoin will stay in the block chain and nobody can use it.

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Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 07:07:20 AM

I was reading about some cases of people who had many BTC at a time when it has low or no value at all, and didn't care about it, so they eventually lost their security phrases, or hard wallets and now it is lost probably forever.

I've read that the amount that is considered lost can be up to 5 million BTC. That is about 1/4 of the total amount available.

Lost BTC are lost forever unless they are found by getting access to where they were stored. I do not think they will be able to recover those coins.

Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 07:07:20 AM

Knowing that BTC has a limit, and we're getting there soon, isn't it possible to have some compensation for those lost BTC?

Something like adding more BTC in an equivalent amount for those lost BTC, or something similar.

Would it be positive for the currency or could bring some caos?

Who will compensate them? Do you know of any BTC reserve from where they can be compensated? Assuming there is any planned compensation, do you know those who lost their coins. What will happen to those who lost their coins through mistake of wallets? I do not see any point in compensating those who lost their coin because I don't think anyone will send them their mined Bitcoin.

EluguHcman

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Your phrases keys are equivalent to your traditional banking demanded signature, so, there is absolutely no way to have access to it if you can't key in the right keywords for identifications or proofs.
However, if you can get an access proof then you absolutely don't need even a dividend but having all of your Bitcoins to your courts but you you can't make the demanded access proof then you absolutely can't get a dime out of it because you have no evidence of accessible proof.

So, there is no compensations for anyone who looses their phrase keys because no one is second in-charge tongue privacies and no one else to be held responsible for it.

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Quote from: dzungmobile on February 15, 2024, 03:44:35 AM

In digital life, we can use PGP key and message to prove ownership.
In Bitcoin, we can only use Bitcoin private key to sign a message from a known public address to prove ownership.

Because those guys lost their bitcoins, it's impossible for them to access private keys for those bitcoins. No tool to sign a message to prove ownership.

Even if someone can sign a message, it might be not enough to prove ownership because private keys, mnemonic seeds can be lost, stolen, sold. It is a first step to prove ownership but to prove identity, it needs more evidence.

First we need to understand what is meant by losing bitcoin. In real world, losing fiat means losing ownership of the paper currency (like dropping it somewhere unintentionally, stolen etc). Losing bitcoin means you lose method to access your coins like losing private key or seed. This is biggest dilemma of Bitcoin i.e. once you lose the access its gone forever and this is something not possible in real world financial system.
AFAIK, in Bitcoins who ever owns the key owns the coin. There is no concept of identities in Bitcoin since its pseudonym. To prove the ownership you need the private key. (Correct me if I am wrong)

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Quote from: FatFork on February 15, 2024, 03:02:59 AM

Well, I guess if you had money that was somehow locked away permanently, with no way to access it ever again, there'd be no way to definitively prove the money was yours. Even if you knew deep down that you earned or owned that money at some point, with no private keys as the rightful owner you'd have no evidence to back up your claim over it.

So, in that kind of situation, how could you conclusively prove the money doesn't actually belong to someone else instead? If you can't verify your own ownership of it, the door is open for another party to potentially step in and argue it's their money that got locked away. And, if it is someone else's, then it is not lost.

In digital life, we can use PGP key and message to prove ownership.
In Bitcoin, we can only use Bitcoin private key to sign a message from a known public address to prove ownership.

Because those guys lost their bitcoins, it's impossible for them to access private keys for those bitcoins. No tool to sign a message to prove ownership.

Even if someone can sign a message, it might be not enough to prove ownership because private keys, mnemonic seeds can be lost, stolen, sold. It is a first step to prove ownership but to prove identity, it needs more evidence.

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Quote from: roller33 on February 14, 2024, 07:47:54 AM

Well, if you have a money that is locked forever, even if you know that it is there, but it can't be used or moved, than it can be considered lost, can't it? hahaha

Well, I guess if you had money that was somehow locked away permanently, with no way to access it ever again, there'd be no way to definitively prove the money was yours. Even if you knew deep down that you earned or owned that money at some point, with no private keys as the rightful owner you'd have no evidence to back up your claim over it.

So, in that kind of situation, how could you conclusively prove the money doesn't actually belong to someone else instead? If you can't verify your own ownership of it, the door is open for another party to potentially step in and argue it's their money that got locked away. And, if it is someone else's, then it is not lost.

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How do you even verify the amount of bitcoins that have been lost? It is only a guesstimate at best.

It is impossible for anyone to know the total amount of bitcoin that has been lost. Even if this figure was somehow known it is impossible to add any lost coins back to the network.

If that were to ever happen the price of bitcoin would drop to zero.

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Quote from: roller33 on February 12, 2024, 07:07:20 AM

I was reading about some cases of people who had many BTC at a time when it has low or no value at all, and didn't care about it, so they eventually lost their security phrases, or hard wallets and now it is lost probably forever.

I've read that the amount that is considered lost can be up to 5 million BTC. That is about 1/4 of the total amount available.

Knowing that BTC has a limit, and we're getting there soon, isn't it possible to have some compensation for those lost BTC?

Something like adding more BTC in an equivalent amount for those lost BTC, or something similar.

Would it be positive for the currency or could bring some caos?

Don't expect any compensation from what you called lost BTC since no one could ever touched those balances unless the owner of that wallet found there private key and open it back again. If located owners would decide to dump all of that 5 million BTC expect that there will be a dump to happen since imagine how huge that volume to dump by those people so for sure that it create a fud which can contribute other people decision to sell out there coins since they get afraid for worse situation that might happen.

Also much better you should not pay attention with those things and try to pay attention on other things since I believe its more worthy if you focus your attention on some things that can give you benefits in long run.

Topic: What about the lost BTC? - page 4. (Read 1548 times)