What about the "trusty" games - page 2.

aslamnur28

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Quote from: Patatas on December 23, 2017, 05:32:37 AM

Quote from: marlboroza on December 23, 2017, 05:28:45 AM

Quote from: Patatas on December 22, 2017, 04:03:02 PM

Quote from: LuanX3 on December 12, 2017, 11:39:11 PM

Without which it will not be provably fair. Hence they say if that is the formula for generating random numbers then you can trust that casino.

I disagree.There are multiple ways one can manipulate this and these are just the basics,actual provable fair casinos do much more than just taking nonce into consideration.

And I disagree with you.
In reality if casino provide you server seed, you provide client seed and ONLY nonce change from 1 to n that is true provably fair.
It seems that many don't really understand provably fair system.

I do understand the provable fair system and have done my homework so...
My point is ,how can you be so sure that the seeds generated by client or the server are not manipulated ? Have you studied any of those algorithms ? I don't think so...You're right about the nonce change but seeds can be randomised or manipulated..

When you're having the seed you could check the fairness on that seed. You could use this tool to check that : http://www.freeformatter.com/hmac-generator.html

audrey12

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I think those games are really made with a little chance of success of course developers will not make any program that they think they will lose a lot, so when it comes to trust I guess majority of them can be trusted besides it's a system generated game if someone wins from betting that's probably luck that he/she were able to make the best bet. But for us to get a more chance of winning try to choose the game with the lowest house edge percentage.

BTCevo

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Quote from: marlboroza on December 23, 2017, 06:45:58 AM

Quote from: Patatas on December 23, 2017, 05:32:37 AM

~
I do understand the provable fair system and have done my homework so...
My point is ,how can you be so sure that the seeds generated by client or the server are not manipulated ? Have you studied any of those algorithms ? I don't think so...You're right about the nonce change but seeds can be randomised or manipulated..

Player can manipulate result only if he knows server seed, which is pretty much impossible.
Casino can manipulate result because they know both player and server seed.
Nonce(or bet number) is solving this issue, so as long as you don't want to change client seed server seed should remain the same and only your bet number is changing. Take stake for example, unless you don't change client seed nothing is randomized leaving no room for manipulation.

But i believe there is some site that offer us to change seed. Which seed are those? But in the end we can't manipulated the result so what seed we need it? If you said server seed, I do not think that we can get that easily. I think some there are some people that keep changing their seed so you mean that their bet can be manipulated by server?

marlboroza

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Quote from: Patatas on December 23, 2017, 05:32:37 AM

~
I do understand the provable fair system and have done my homework so...
My point is ,how can you be so sure that the seeds generated by client or the server are not manipulated ? Have you studied any of those algorithms ? I don't think so...You're right about the nonce change but seeds can be randomised or manipulated..

Player can manipulate result only if he knows server seed, which is pretty much impossible.
Casino can manipulate result because they know both player and server seed.
Nonce(or bet number) is solving this issue, so as long as you don't want to change client seed server seed should remain the same and only your bet number is changing. Take stake for example, unless you don't change client seed nothing is randomized leaving no room for manipulation.

Patatas

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Quote from: marlboroza on December 23, 2017, 05:28:45 AM

Quote from: Patatas on December 22, 2017, 04:03:02 PM

Quote from: LuanX3 on December 12, 2017, 11:39:11 PM

Without which it will not be provably fair. Hence they say if that is the formula for generating random numbers then you can trust that casino.

I disagree.There are multiple ways one can manipulate this and these are just the basics,actual provable fair casinos do much more than just taking nonce into consideration.

And I disagree with you.
In reality if casino provide you server seed, you provide client seed and ONLY nonce change from 1 to n that is true provably fair.
It seems that many don't really understand provably fair system.

I do understand the provable fair system and have done my homework so...
My point is ,how can you be so sure that the seeds generated by client or the server are not manipulated ? Have you studied any of those algorithms ? I don't think so...You're right about the nonce change but seeds can be randomised or manipulated..

marlboroza

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Quote from: Patatas on December 22, 2017, 04:03:02 PM

Quote from: LuanX3 on December 12, 2017, 11:39:11 PM

Without which it will not be provably fair. Hence they say if that is the formula for generating random numbers then you can trust that casino.

I disagree.There are multiple ways one can manipulate this and these are just the basics,actual provable fair casinos do much more than just taking nonce into consideration.

And I disagree with you.
In reality if casino provide you server seed, you provide client seed and ONLY nonce change from 1 to n that is true provably fair.
It seems that many don't really understand provably fair system.

bigmaster23

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WWW.BLOCKCHAIN021.COM

It is hard to label some site that are not fair on their game, but it need to be the one that's you who need to take a break to have some review at the site your playing, have a review with it and you will nevertheless answer your own questions of is it fair? Cheesy

Patatas

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Quote from: LuanX3 on December 12, 2017, 11:39:11 PM

Without which it will not be provably fair. Hence they say if that is the formula for generating random numbers then you can trust that casino.

I disagree.There are multiple ways one can manipulate this and these are just the basics,actual provable fair casinos do much more than just taking nonce into consideration.

Quote from: LuanX3 on December 12, 2017, 11:39:11 PM

However, thing is that is pretty much the basics of it. I have not read anyone that would have criticized this here on the forum (or probably I missed it). In a much more deeper level of understanding, there would be some aspects of this that can still be cheated. But I can't really say how that would be, but likely some good crafty programmer can think of ways to cheat this if they wanted to.

If a casino has their own random number generation algorithm then it can be cheated into multiple ways by a crafty programmer but server hashes and if blocks taken into consideration,there are fewer chances of it.In reality,no machine with normal hashing power can generate a number which is 100% random and promises non recursive pattern.

marlboroza

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OP do research about provably fair gambling. You can find couple topics on this board.

Quote from: LuanX3 on December 12, 2017, 11:39:11 PM

"Farer"? or did you mean fair?

It depends on the site and how they generate their random numbers. The bitcoin gambling foundation has always said that to be a real provably fair system, it must have this formula,

Code:

[Server Seed Hash] + [Client Seed] + [Nonce]

Without which it will not be provably fair. Hence they say if that is the formula for generating random numbers then you can trust that casino.

However, thing is that is pretty much the basics of it. I have not read anyone that would have criticized this here on the forum (or probably I missed it). In a much more deeper level of understanding, there would be some aspects of this that can still be cheated. But I can't really say how that would be, but likely some good crafty programmer can think of ways to cheat this if they wanted to.

There is no possible way for casino to cheat players if only nonce change.

mrproblem

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I should look from 2 different part, one of them is to be "trusty" on games , the other one is to be "trusty" on payment.
Games can be "trusty" and you play and win and you can reach limit of payment. MEantime you may be clicking lots of advertisements or links.
When payment time comes oh there is nothing.
So not only game part and also payment part is really important.
You can look topics in here or look some websites they are listing game sites..

BillCoin

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Quote from: TheBarMan on December 12, 2017, 10:02:38 PM

When you bet in games like blackjack or hi and low dice games in digital they always says that all is ferar..

They have a trust link for check if that game is trustued or not.

What you think about it?

This is real or what???

please comment here what you think about it...

good day friends,

Playing online casino has it own risks, one of them is that the casino operator may operate an unfair game, for an example, the blackjack may not be totally random, and may decide that some cards have more appearance chance.

That's the reason you should be always checking if the casino you are playing has a provably fair system( they show the source code of the game, and allows you to verify that the output is correct from the Hash and Salt they generated at the first place before you starting playing, the Hash and Salt should be revealed at the start of the game).
Even if the casino is well known, there is still no way to know that it is not cheating on games.

kryptqnick

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Quote from: LuanX3 on December 12, 2017, 11:39:11 PM

It depends on the site and how they generate their random numbers. The bitcoin gambling foundation has always said that to be a real provably fair system, it must have this formula,

Code:

[Server Seed Hash] + [Client Seed] + [Nonce]

Without which it will not be provably fair. Hence they say if that is the formula for generating random numbers then you can trust that casino.

However, thing is that is pretty much the basics of it.

I think that most of casinos are actually provably fair, for it's more profitable for the casino than taking risks of losing the trust of the community.
Op, if you don't feel like trusting everyone - just gamble on the most trusted websites like Primedice or those based on smart contracts (like vDice).
One more thing: the numbers might be absolutely random, but we shouldn't forget that there's also a house edge, so the actual probability of you to win is not the same as a pure probability to get a number you need, but a bit smaller.

Patatas

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Quote from: TheBarMan on December 12, 2017, 10:02:38 PM

When you bet in games like blackjack or hi and low dice games in digital they always says that all is ferar..

They have a trust link for check if that game is trustued or not.

- > Depends on which site you're gambling.

- >You can be easily tricked into believing your roll is fair if you don't know how to check for it.Usually every website has a link to prove their fairness but you gotta filter out the legit ones.

- >Check this old article on how to check for fairness : https://dicesites.com/provably-fair

AliCris

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Quote from: Aengus on December 13, 2017, 07:25:50 PM

Without shilling too much, check www.cryptogambling.org for a list of websites which are 100% fair and without a doubt will payout.

Thank you for the link, it is very useful. Now it is very difficult to find honest games, everyone wants to deceive you and appropriate your means.

michkima

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Quote from: Aengus on December 13, 2017, 07:25:50 PM

Without shilling too much, check www.cryptogambling.org for a list of websites which are 100% fair and without a doubt will payout.

Well, that site is beginning to be a good source for people looking for answers for their gambling site checking needs. I guess it would just take some time though that every gambling site would be registered and comply with the rules there. Since this is somewhat like a treaty between states, were they are only bound by the rules of that treaty only by their express consent.

Aengus

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Edward Miroslav

Without shilling too much, check www.cryptogambling.org for a list of websites which are 100% fair and without a doubt will payout.

Oilacris

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Quote from: LuanX3 on December 12, 2017, 11:39:11 PM

"Farer"? or did you mean fair?

It depends on the site and how they generate their random numbers. The bitcoin gambling foundation has always said that to be a real provably fair system, it must have this formula,

Code:

[Server Seed Hash] + [Client Seed] + [Nonce]

Without which it will not be provably fair. Hence they say if that is the formula for generating random numbers then you can trust that casino.

However, thing is that is pretty much the basics of it. I have not read anyone that would have criticized this here on the forum (or probably I missed it). In a much more deeper level of understanding, there would be some aspects of this that can still be cheated. But I can't really say how that would be, but likely some good crafty programmer can think of ways to cheat this if they wanted to.

That supposed to be fair and its just a typo for sure. This is why i do always seek out to see that transparency when it comes on making bets and how to verify it that its all random.These things can really make me say that this is a fair and trusted site but these behavior is just when i was still newbie on finding possible legit sites but not i am not already basing on that thing because i do consider it fair when a certain site do have lots of players and do have some good feedbacks.

felipe04

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Quote from: TheBarMan on December 12, 2017, 10:02:38 PM

When you bet in games like blackjack or hi and low dice games in digital they always says that all is ferar..

They have a trust link for check if that game is trustued or not.

What you think about it?

This is real or what???

please comment here what you think about it...

good day friends,

all of us can say it's fair so i think we need to believe to what they say but you can think also that is not fair because they say only and for me all words is not trusted so i think see to believe.If they have proof then play but i think if you play gambling that is only for fun and not for profit,Moreover play in the gambling site that have a player also not like computer and in poker here in crypto.

jinksters09

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It depends about who implement it. To be sure that this is trustworthy do a search about this sites. If there are many members and there is no hint that this is just scam casino then you can trust it. Avoid sites that are too private.

badjacks99

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If this site has implemented a proper provably fair system, then yet it is very real. Do a quick Google search on how the provably fair System works for a better understanding. Once you know how to use it and what you’re looking for and you can just simply avoid sites that don’t have implemented correctly or haven’t bothered to try.

Topic: What about the "trusty" games - page 2. (Read 658 times)