What after localbitcoins.com shutting down

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Quote from: slaman29 on March 10, 2024, 06:13:19 AM

@logfiles

I've tried BISQ of course, that is decentralized but my point was, Localbitcoins is still P2P, it never claimed to be decentralized. I think people get confused by centralized and decentralized. I like the idea but I don't deny that centralized services are also P2P.

I don't know if you get my point.

Peer to peer trading means there are two parties directly buying and selling amongst themselves without the involvement of central authority in the process, thus this is where decentralization comes in. If a third party is involved, then that is not P2P.

If you still remember how localbitcoins operated, the truth is that once you deposited the funds to their addresses, it was now their Bitcoin and not yours. You simply had figures showing in your account that you have 0.1 or 10 BTC, but the fact was the Bitcoins were lying in their hotwallets, and therefore they were the Central Authority and had complete control over the deposited assets.
Once you carried out the trade to sell the Bitcoins, it was Trader 1 ----> LocalBitcoins ----> Trader 2. Sincelery, how do you still consider that to be Peer (trader 1) to Peer (trader 2)

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Quote from: slaman29 on March 10, 2024, 06:13:19 AM

In fact, the whole topic thread is about a localbitcoins alternative, so Bisq is a better, decentralized alternative. For sure. But there are many more that people might feel safer using. Personally, I like for a newbie LBC alternative with actual customer support to become mediator in bad deals.

I don't know how long ago you have used Bisq, but the platform actually has 3 different kinds of disputes available - trader chat, mediation, and arbitration. These methods are ordered from the most usual one (trader chat) to the most rarest (arbitration). In the first level you are just talking with the buyer but if you feel that you are being damaged you can proceed to the next kind of escalation (mediation) which adds another user/person to the discussion. You can learn all about the dispute process here[1] and see the current mediators here[2].

To give you an idea of the different type of problems faced within the mediation fase, here is the latest snipped of current mediations within Bisq from one mediator (from 2 weeks ago[3]):

Quote

Summary of reasons for all closed mediation tickets:

This is an all time list of tickets that have been closed for my current Bisq mediation instance:

Summary of reasons for disputes:
OTHER: 76
TRADE_ALREADY_SETTLED: 97
SELLER_NOT_RESPONDING: 120
BUG: 76
PEER_WAS_LATE: 108
USABILITY: 64
BANK_PROBLEMS: 152
WRONG_SENDER_ACCOUNT: 13

TOTAL: 582

Albeit this being just a sample (there are more mediators) it gives you an idea of their role and the main problem that they face.

[1]https://docs.bisq.network/trading-rules
[2]https://github.com/bisq-network/roles/issues/83
[3]https://github.com/bisq-network/roles/issues/83#issuecomment-1966159832

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@logfiles

I've tried BISQ of course, that is decentralized but my point was, Localbitcoins is still P2P, it never claimed to be decentralized. I think people get confused by centralized and decentralized. I like the idea but I don't deny that centralized services are also P2P.

In fact, the whole topic thread is about a localbitcoins alternative, so Bisq is a better, decentralized alternative. For sure. But there are many more that people might feel safer using. Personally, I like for a newbie LBC alternative with actual customer support to become mediator in bad deals.

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Not sure if anyone mentioned BISQ. Unlike localbitcoins it is decentralized and without KYC.

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Quote from: slaman29 on March 09, 2024, 04:11:51 AM

It was peer to peer, what are you Savastan0 talking about? It just was not decentralized, but it never claimed to be.

I also used LocalBitcoins before they introduced KYC. How was it peer to peer if even the addresses you would deposit the Bitcoins to were owned by them and not you and, worst of it, they would even charge a deposit fee? Grin

You can't claim to be a peer to peer service, yet you are centralized.

Quote from: slaman29 on March 09, 2024, 04:11:51 AM

99% of DEX are non custodial but they are so centralized now THEY are not p2p, you don't even know who you're trading with a bot, or some companies' bots, or just a few guys with all the liquidity.

Those are not Dexs. It's all a lie.

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Quote from: logfiles on March 07, 2024, 05:08:20 PM

Quote from: Savastan0 on March 07, 2024, 02:26:39 AM

LocalBitcoins had to close because of government rules and not many people using it anymore. But it wasn't really peer-to-peer or decentralized like it claimed to be. You had to give your personal info before using it, and it held onto your bitcoins for you.

Exactly and this is the same lie Binance, Bybit, Kucoin and all this other centralized exchanges are selling to users claiming that they have p2p service, yet the fact is that for you to use the service;
1. You have to pass KYC verification
2. You let them be the custodians of the funds
Hardly peer to peer in my opinion.

It was peer to peer, what are you Savastan0 talking about? It just was not decentralized, but it never claimed to be.

If Localbitcoins is not p2p then absolutely none of the platforms offering p2p trading, p2p marketplace, p2p sharing etc are not p2p.

You are buying and selling directly to another peer. Yes, you use the platform to escrow funds, and to use the platform you have to KYC but remember this was only later years. When I first used Localbitcoins there was no need for KYC at all. And if you are buying, they are not even custodian, you send the money directly to the seller. Only the seller uses escrow but that's for their protection.

I'm not defending Localbitcoins, it's nothing to do with being decentralized.

And "custodial" and non custodial services is ONE aspect of decentralization. 99% of DEX are non custodial but they are so centralized now THEY are not p2p, you don't even know who you're trading with a bot, or some companies' bots, or just a few guys with all the liquidity.

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Quote from: Savastan0 on March 07, 2024, 02:26:39 AM

LocalBitcoins had to close because of government rules and not many people using it anymore. But it wasn't really peer-to-peer or decentralized like it claimed to be. You had to give your personal info before using it, and it held onto your bitcoins for you.

Exactly and this is the same lie Binance, Bybit, Kucoin and all this other centralized exchanges are selling to users claiming that they have p2p service, yet the fact is that for you to use the service;
1. You have to pass KYC verification
2. You let them be the custodians of the funds
Hardly peer to peer in my opinion.

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LocalBitcoins had to close because of government rules and not many people using it anymore. But it wasn't really peer-to-peer or decentralized like it claimed to be. You had to give your personal info before using it, and it held onto your bitcoins for you.

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Quote from: Savastan0 on February 29, 2024, 05:32:24 AM

There are fewer options for peer-to-peer trading. If a well-known P2P exchange closes, it could be risky for us. Many people prefer P2P trading over centralized exchanges like Binance. While there might be other P2P exchanges opening up, LocalBitcoin was a trusted choice. I'm not sure why a P2P exchange would shut down. Maybe it's just for some temporary rules.

Localbitcoins shutdown probably due to regulatory pressure and a decline in its popularity/trading volumes, but it was far from being anything peer to peer and decentralized in its later stages.
The service was custodial and one need to have their KYC verified before using the exchange.

If you want a serious p2p exchange that is decentralized. Check out Bisq.network

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Quote from: Savastan0 on February 29, 2024, 05:32:24 AM

There are fewer options for peer-to-peer trading. If a well-known P2P exchange closes, it could be risky for us. Many people prefer P2P trading over centralized exchanges like Binance. While there might be other P2P exchanges opening up, LocalBitcoin was a trusted choice. I'm not sure why a P2P exchange would shut down. Maybe it's just for some temporary rules.

LocalBitcoins started off as a p2p exchange, but along the way they made kyc compulsory, so at the time of shutting down they were not a p2p exchange, and that is the major reason why they shut down. They lost most of their customers as they were using the service because they wanted to trade p2p, but since LocalBitcoins could no longer provide that, they had to look for other services.

Here is a list of p2p exchanges: https://kycnot.me/?t=exchange

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There are fewer options for peer-to-peer trading. If a well-known P2P exchange closes, it could be risky for us. Many people prefer P2P trading over centralized exchanges like Binance. While there might be other P2P exchanges opening up, LocalBitcoin was a trusted choice. I'm not sure why a P2P exchange would shut down. Maybe it's just for some temporary rules.

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Quote from: PX-Z on February 12, 2024, 09:24:51 AM

Quote from: BitcoinsGreat on February 12, 2024, 09:18:09 AM

I think People can easily use the P2P platform available on Binance and other centralized exchanges. Why do they need other sites like localbitcoins etc for this purpose?

Also, I think that these sites have been losing business ever since the biggest exchange Binance has launched their P2P platform and that is very secure too.

Not everyone can legally access Binance and not all are fan of centralized exchanges that asks KYC. Besides localbitcoins are famous p2p platform on its prime years not until it asked KYC requirements which started its dooms day.

Similar to any online money processor, it would be quite naive to expect that it will stay no KYC forever. Does everyone expect the government would allow criminals to send and receive money freely without imposing anti money laundering laws? This would certainly be head shaking if they left Localbitcoins alone hehehee. This is not the fault of anything or anyone. This is reality.

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Quote from: EarnOnVictor on February 15, 2024, 12:47:35 PM

Nevertheless, the advice of @BitcoinsGreat is very much valid as Binance is a better alternative to Localbitcoins and services like it actually killed the business of Localbitcoins.

I also agree with him (BitcoinsGreat) as why do we need to look for the third party P2P for exchanging the coins, when we can use Binance which is by far the most trusted exchange so far.
Also to know the credibility of the platform, you can always check the number of people transacting with the platform. As a rough idea, almost 1.5M users uses the P2P transaction and these numbers tell us that people are happy with the P2P services offered by binance.

Binance P2P by the Numbers: Facts, Figures and Statistics Revealed!

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on February 15, 2024, 12:47:35 PM

Also, if there are countries that ban Binance, and not cryptocurrency generally, such will be so few. I can only read of Singapore and a tiny fractional part of Canada. I didn't dig deeper but I know that Binance offers its service to almost every part of the world. But it is a different ballgame if you want to use DEX, the Ts&Cs must be obeyed including the KYC.

Well, we have binance US which is specifically designed for the people of the US. So we cannot say that Binance is not available in that region. These are the Countries and Regions where binance is operational and this list covers almost 100+ countries.

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on February 15, 2024, 12:47:35 PM

Besides, KYC is not what killed Localbitcoin, it's the too-hot competition in the industry that killed it. I can't have Binance and still think of Localbitcoin, this is obvious in all services you may think of.

KYC is not a problem here because almost all the platforms will ask for your KYC for P2P transactions. Local Bitcoin also had the KYC enforced. You can use Binance exchange without the KYC but for the P2P transaction, you will have to do the mandatory KYC. This means that the people who want to do the P2P transaction are already aware that without KYC, they cannot avail this service.

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Quote from: PX-Z on February 12, 2024, 09:24:51 AM

Quote from: BitcoinsGreat on February 12, 2024, 09:18:09 AM

I think People can easily use the P2P platform available on Binance and other centralized exchanges. Why do they need other sites like localbitcoins etc for this purpose?

Also, I think that these sites have been losing business ever since the biggest exchange Binance has launched their P2P platform and that is very secure too.

Not everyone can legally access Binance and not all are fan of centralized exchanges that asks KYC. Besides localbitcoins are famous p2p platform on its prime years not until it asked KYC requirements which started its dooms day.

Nevertheless, the advice of @BitcoinsGreat is very much valid as Binance is a better alternative to Localbitcoins and services like it actually killed the business of Localbitcoins.

Also, if there are countries that ban Binance, and not cryptocurrency generally, such will be so few. I can only read of Singapore and a tiny fractional part of Canada. I didn't dig deeper but I know that Binance offers its service to almost every part of the world. But it is a different ballgame if you want to use DEX, the Ts&Cs must be obeyed including the KYC.

Besides, KYC is not what killed Localbitcoin, it's the too-hot competition in the industry that killed it. I can't have Binance and still think of Localbitcoin, this is obvious in all services you may think of.

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Quote from: BitcoinsGreat on February 12, 2024, 09:18:09 AM

I think People can easily use the P2P platform available on Binance and other centralized exchanges. Why do they need other sites like localbitcoins etc for this purpose?

Also, I think that these sites have been losing business ever since the biggest exchange Binance has launched their P2P platform and that is very secure too.

Not everyone can legally access Binance and not all are fan of centralized exchanges that asks KYC. Besides localbitcoins are famous p2p platform on its prime years not until it asked KYC requirements which started its dooms day.

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Quote from: PX-Z on February 09, 2023, 09:21:58 AM

most p2p users need to find and new platform where to trade well at least new reputed one.

I think People can easily use the P2P platform available on Binance and other centralized exchanges. Why do they need other sites like localbitcoins etc for this purpose?

Also, I think that these sites have been losing business ever since the biggest exchange Binance has launched their P2P platform and that is very secure too.

Quote from: tyz on February 10, 2024, 10:25:48 AM

Sure, but then it would be best to use decentralized exchanges

Yes, that will be the best option but the problem would be the liquidity plus the escrow system to be deployed in the P2P decentralized ecosystem.

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Quote from: Z-tight on February 08, 2024, 06:28:21 PM

Quote from: tyz on February 08, 2024, 03:19:44 PM

However, I wonder why people still exchange Bitcoin in face-to-face meetings today. That would be far too dangerous for me given the value of Bitcoin. Personally, I wouldn't meet up with a stranger to exchange Bitcoin, as it can be assumed that you are carrying a lot of money with you. Even in public places, such an exchange is no longer safe these days.

Each to their own anyway, there are so many tx we do with fiat that can also be considered to be as 'risky' as this, like withdrawing money from a fiat atm or directly coming out of a fiat bank, you could be followed because people think you have withdrawn a lot of cash and have it on you, but this does not stop people from using these services.

There are precautions to take in f2f trades, and if you take them, i think it is fine to trade that way. Use a p2p exchange like bisq to connect you to traders who want f2f trade, meet in public, go with a friend and do not trade a large amount of money.

Sure, but then it would be best to use decentralized exchanges that have a fiat interface instead of making an deal with someone online to meet in person and exposing yourself to danger. If you want absolute privacy, then you can swap the bitcoins bought on the decentralized exchange back and forth a couple of time or run them through a mixer and you have the same effect without the risk of personal harm.

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Quote from: ParticlAccelerator on February 07, 2024, 11:08:14 AM

I'm new here and not affiliated with the project, but that's a great idea, I didn't realise it was an option. I'll mention it to their team and see if they want to do that. Thanks for the advice!

Are you kidding me right now? You are not their affiliate and have nothing to them, yet since it is a great idea for you, you will contact the company that is not in any way affiliated with you. C'mon, this is too cheap to pass any sensible radar. Above all, no one is disturbing you as the forum is free and once you obey the rules, you will be fine. Just be sincere and think twice even before you post.

Mind you, just for a piece of advice, hiding under pretence and so much shadow often pisses people off here and we may know/suspect more than what you think we do.

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Quote from: tyz on February 08, 2024, 03:19:44 PM

However, I wonder why people still exchange Bitcoin in face-to-face meetings today. That would be far too dangerous for me given the value of Bitcoin. Personally, I wouldn't meet up with a stranger to exchange Bitcoin, as it can be assumed that you are carrying a lot of money with you. Even in public places, such an exchange is no longer safe these days.

Each to their own anyway, there are so many tx we do with fiat that can also be considered to be as 'risky' as this, like withdrawing money from a fiat atm or directly coming out of a fiat bank, you could be followed because people think you have withdrawn a lot of cash and have it on you, but this does not stop people from using these services.

There are precautions to take in f2f trades, and if you take them, i think it is fine to trade that way. Use a p2p exchange like bisq to connect you to traders who want f2f trade, meet in public, go with a friend and do not trade a large amount of money.

tyz

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Quote from: talkoncrypto Official on February 09, 2023, 09:10:51 AM

Now people are in dilemma that how they can continue their trading, as localbitcoins is one of the exchange which set a benchmark in crypto space,

AgoraDesk [1] is the direct competitor to LocalBitcoins. After LocalBitcoins has been shut down this is the service to go.

However, I wonder why people still exchange Bitcoin in face-to-face meetings today. That would be far too dangerous for me given the value of Bitcoin. Personally, I wouldn't meet up with a stranger to exchange Bitcoin, as it can be assumed that you are carrying a lot of money with you. Even in public places, such an exchange is no longer safe these days.

[1] https://agoradesk.com/

Topic: What after localbitcoins.com shutting down (Read 1197 times)