What Are The Five Biggest Boldest Socialist Success Stories Since 1917?

Wilikon

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 16, 2015, 12:39:51 PM

Quote from: Wilikon on August 16, 2015, 11:16:59 AM

Socialism's theory in a nutshell. The myth of free, perpetual energy...

So according to you, education and healthcare should not be free? I disagree with that.

Education and medicare should not be considered as a business. That is what happening in the United States, where poor people are unable to afford quality education and healthcare.

Healthcare is free to poor people. It is even free to total strangers and illegals. The middle class is paying for it. The very rich can afford it. Socialism hates the entrepreneurial spirit and the middle class... Even more than the ultra rich class. The middle class gives hope to the poor. Too much hope to the poor kills class warfare. Without class warfare socialism ceases to exist.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Wilikon on August 16, 2015, 11:16:59 AM

Socialism's theory in a nutshell. The myth of free, perpetual energy...

So according to you, education and healthcare should not be free? I disagree with that.

Education and medicare should not be considered as a business. That is what happening in the United States, where poor people are unable to afford quality education and healthcare.

Wilikon

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Activity: 1176

Merit: 1001

minds.com/Wilikon

Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 16, 2015, 11:03:05 AM

Quote from: Spendulus on August 16, 2015, 09:44:08 AM

I consider Bolivia one of the most hopelessly screwed up, poverty stricken countries in the continent. And that's when the electric works.

The situation in Bolivia has improved ever since Evo Morales took over as the president in 2006. The poverty rate is declining, and the poor are being given healthcare and education free of cost. He has permitted the usage of indigenous languages, and Catholicism has lost its dominance in deciding the government policies.

Bolivia was one of the few economies in the world, which actually grew during the global recession of 2008. There was a significant improvement in rural infrastructure, with new roads and power and water lines being constructed. Exploitative agencies such as the World Bank and International Monetary Fund (IMF) were kicked out.

Socialism's theory in a nutshell. The myth of free, perpetual energy...

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Spendulus on August 16, 2015, 09:44:08 AM

I consider Bolivia one of the most hopelessly screwed up, poverty stricken countries in the continent. And that's when the electric works.

The situation in Bolivia has improved ever since Evo Morales took over as the president in 2006. The poverty rate is declining, and the poor are being given healthcare and education free of cost. He has permitted the usage of indigenous languages, and Catholicism has lost its dominance in deciding the government policies.

Bolivia was one of the few economies in the world, which actually grew during the global recession of 2008. There was a significant improvement in rural infrastructure, with new roads and power and water lines being constructed. Exploitative agencies such as the World Bank and International Monetary Fund (IMF) were kicked out.

Spendulus

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 15, 2015, 01:58:54 AM

Here is my list:

1. Soviet Space Program
2. Soviet Ballistic Missile Program
3. Kazakhstan
4. China
5. Vietnam

Socialism will be OK, if it is implemented properly. An example is Bolivia. But it will go wrong, if corruption and dictatorship get involved in the system (Venezuela and North Korea respectively).

I consider Bolivia one of the most hopelessly screwed up, poverty stricken countries in the continent. And that's when the electric works.

Spendulus

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 15, 2015, 02:45:12 PM

Quote from: Wilikon on August 15, 2015, 01:50:26 PM

Good.

Cuba also scores a pretty number in literacy. It did not stop women with PHDs in physics from whoring in the streets of havanas at night but... I guess that's a start as a good example for socialism...

I would blame socialism for most of the troubles in countries such as North Korea and Venezuela. But the abject poverty in Cuba is a direct result of the American sanctions and embargoes directed against that nation. Without the sanctions and embargoes, Cuba would have been the most prosperous Latin American nation right now.

There's no basis for this assertion, given that they'd abandoned the entertainment industries as demeaning for a Peoples' Republic.

Snail2

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Quote from: Wilikon on August 15, 2015, 09:05:13 AM

Socialism is good for creating weapons and invading countries? There must be other examples other than those "vectors of creativity"...
So, since 1917 what are examples of socialism being implemented properly?

I really don't want to defend and promote socialism, but actually socialist countries very rarely initiated wars and invaded other countries. (I'm not counting revolutions, civil wars, re-joining divided countries, or sending military help to friendly countries as invasion.) Especially if you compare the number of their invasions to the numbers of invasions started by the US and other western countries in the last 70 years.

There's no properly implemented socialism. It's a flawed design, so it doesn't matter how you implement it, you will always end up with a collapsed economy. Even the Chinese returned to a capitalist economy to be able to finance the "socialist" state.

Snail2

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Quote from: Wilikon on August 14, 2015, 10:28:55 PM

Is socialism a natural vector of creativity? Sounds like you had to be in good term with the boss and the politburo... Until the new boss comes... Then. Watch out!

Back in the socialist times creativity always been greatly encouraged in certain areas like technology and science, tolerated in other areas like arts, literature (until the author or artist honoured some rules), and fiercely discouraged in areas like economy, philosophy and politics.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Wilikon on August 15, 2015, 01:50:26 PM

Good.

Cuba also scores a pretty number in literacy. It did not stop women with PHDs in physics from whoring in the streets of havanas at night but... I guess that's a start as a good example for socialism...

I would blame socialism for most of the troubles in countries such as North Korea and Venezuela. But the abject poverty in Cuba is a direct result of the American sanctions and embargoes directed against that nation. Without the sanctions and embargoes, Cuba would have been the most prosperous Latin American nation right now.

Wilikon

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 15, 2015, 01:05:35 PM

Quote from: Wilikon on August 15, 2015, 09:05:13 AM

So, since 1917 what are examples of socialism being implemented properly?

There are a few examples. Let's compare the case of ethnic Tajiks. Some 2/3rd of them live in Afghanistan, which was under nominal British rule until the mid-20th century. The remaining one-third live in Tajikistan, which was a Soviet Republic until 1992.

Now, the Tajiks who live in Afghanistan are mostly illiterate, and the only economic activities available for them are drug smuggling, joining the Taliban, and extortion.

On the other hand, the Tajik Soviet Socialist Republic had a literacy rate of around 96% in 1989, with large number of them (including a large proportion of women) graduating out of engineering and medical institutes.

Good.

Cuba also scores a pretty number in literacy. It did not stop women with PHDs in physics from whoring in the streets of havanas at night but... I guess that's a start as a good example for socialism...

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Wilikon on August 15, 2015, 09:05:13 AM

So, since 1917 what are examples of socialism being implemented properly?

There are a few examples. Let's compare the case of ethnic Tajiks. Some 2/3rd of them live in Afghanistan, which was under nominal British rule until the mid-20th century. The remaining one-third live in Tajikistan, which was a Soviet Republic until 1992.

Now, the Tajiks who live in Afghanistan are mostly illiterate, and the only economic activities available for them are drug smuggling, joining the Taliban, and extortion.

On the other hand, the Tajik Soviet Socialist Republic had a literacy rate of around 96% in 1989, with large number of them (including a large proportion of women) graduating out of engineering and medical institutes.

Wilikon

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 15, 2015, 01:58:54 AM

Here is my list:

1. Soviet Space Program
2. Soviet Ballistic Missile Program
3. Kazakhstan
4. China
5. Vietnam

Socialism will be OK, if it is implemented properly. An example is Bolivia. But it will go wrong, if corruption and dictatorship get involved in the system (Venezuela and North Korea respectively).

Socialism is good for creating weapons and invading countries? There must be other examples other than those "vectors of creativity"...

So, since 1917 what are examples of socialism being implemented properly?

Spendulus

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Quote from: Wilikon on August 14, 2015, 10:28:55 PM

Quote from: Spendulus on August 14, 2015, 08:53:31 PM

Quote from: Wilikon on August 14, 2015, 08:25:45 PM

Quote from: Spendulus on August 14, 2015, 07:43:50 PM

Quote from: Snail2 on August 14, 2015, 04:53:11 PM

Surviving for so many years with such a flawed economic system and in the meantime still having the resources to build/achieve a lot of actually quite appealing things.
Winning WW2.
Transforming Russia from a second class country to a superpower.
First space vehicle.
First man in the space...
...and so on.

Hey, Snail. I wrote my five gems, a little bit of a joke.

Truth is that Soviet Russia has done many really great things.

And this genius:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SARwg6kYOn8

And this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFA9q6wHGNc

I'll give them credit for the ekranoplan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Nu94khHoo

Just...watch...out...for...icebergs...and kite surfers

Also, Lunokhod - drowned under Apollo media hype, yeah, but actually very sophisticated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUkAVZMX8QU

Is socialism a natural vector of creativity? Sounds like you had to be in good term with the boss and the politburo... Until the new boss comes... Then. Watch out!

Okay, let's look at 2 more immensely successful things from socialism. Both were accomplished "under socialism."

1. The move of Russia from communism to a semi capitalistic, creepy, gangster form of free market.
2. The move of China from communism to a semi fascist, enormously productive free market.

bryant.coleman

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Here is my list:

1. Soviet Space Program
2. Soviet Ballistic Missile Program
3. Kazakhstan
4. China
5. Vietnam

Socialism will be OK, if it is implemented properly. An example is Bolivia. But it will go wrong, if corruption and dictatorship get involved in the system (Venezuela and North Korea respectively).

Wilikon

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Activity: 1176

Merit: 1001

minds.com/Wilikon

Quote from: Spendulus on August 14, 2015, 08:53:31 PM

Quote from: Wilikon on August 14, 2015, 08:25:45 PM

Quote from: Spendulus on August 14, 2015, 07:43:50 PM

Quote from: Snail2 on August 14, 2015, 04:53:11 PM

Surviving for so many years with such a flawed economic system and in the meantime still having the resources to build/achieve a lot of actually quite appealing things.
Winning WW2.
Transforming Russia from a second class country to a superpower.
First space vehicle.
First man in the space...
...and so on.

Hey, Snail. I wrote my five gems, a little bit of a joke.

Truth is that Soviet Russia has done many really great things.

And this genius:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SARwg6kYOn8

And this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFA9q6wHGNc

I'll give them credit for the ekranoplan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Nu94khHoo

Just...watch...out...for...icebergs...and kite surfers

Also, Lunokhod - drowned under Apollo media hype, yeah, but actually very sophisticated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUkAVZMX8QU

Is socialism a natural vector of creativity? Sounds like you had to be in good term with the boss and the politburo... Until the new boss comes... Then. Watch out!

Spendulus

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Activity: 2926

Merit: 1386

Quote from: Wilikon on August 14, 2015, 08:25:45 PM

Quote from: Spendulus on August 14, 2015, 07:43:50 PM

Quote from: Snail2 on August 14, 2015, 04:53:11 PM

Surviving for so many years with such a flawed economic system and in the meantime still having the resources to build/achieve a lot of actually quite appealing things.
Winning WW2.
Transforming Russia from a second class country to a superpower.
First space vehicle.
First man in the space...
...and so on.

Hey, Snail. I wrote my five gems, a little bit of a joke.

Truth is that Soviet Russia has done many really great things.

And this genius:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SARwg6kYOn8

And this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFA9q6wHGNc

I'll give them credit for the ekranoplan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Nu94khHoo

Just...watch...out...for...icebergs...and kite surfers

Also, Lunokhod - drowned under Apollo media hype, yeah, but actually very sophisticated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUkAVZMX8QU

Wilikon

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Activity: 1176

Merit: 1001

minds.com/Wilikon

Quote from: Spendulus on August 14, 2015, 07:43:50 PM

Quote from: Snail2 on August 14, 2015, 04:53:11 PM

Surviving for so many years with such a flawed economic system and in the meantime still having the resources to build/achieve a lot of actually quite appealing things.
Winning WW2.
Transforming Russia from a second class country to a superpower.
First space vehicle.
First man in the space...
...and so on.

Hey, Snail. I wrote my five gems, a little bit of a joke.

Truth is that Soviet Russia has done many really great things.

And this genius:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SARwg6kYOn8

And this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFA9q6wHGNc

Spendulus

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Activity: 2926

Merit: 1386

Quote from: Snail2 on August 14, 2015, 04:53:11 PM

Surviving for so many years with such a flawed economic system and in the meantime still having the resources to build/achieve a lot of actually quite appealing things.
Winning WW2.
Transforming Russia from a second class country to a superpower.
First space vehicle.
First man in the space...
...and so on.

Hey, Snail. I wrote my five gems, a little bit of a joke.

Truth is that Soviet Russia has done many really great things.

Wilikon

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1001

minds.com/Wilikon

Quote from: Snail2 on August 14, 2015, 04:53:11 PM

Surviving for so many years with such a flawed economic system and in the meantime still having the resources to build/achieve a lot of actually quite appealing things.
Winning WW2.
Transforming Russia from a second class country to a superpower.
First space vehicle.
First man in the space...
...and so on.

Surviving... Despite socialism. Check!
Winning WW2 all by stalin? Check!
Transforming russia from a second class country to an invading military might, keeping happy comrades behind an iron curtain. Check!
First space vehicle, thanks to nazi scientists. Check!
First man in space, first 126 men burnt alive because of the space race, 55 years ago. Check!

The part I am interested most is "...and so on." I really want to know what positive, amazing contributions socialism brought the human race since then.

Great chess players? Could socialism help stay focus while looking at a game board?

"You lose, you go to Gulag!"

Hmm.. OK, now I see how socialism helps stay focus...

Snail2

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Activity: 1512

Merit: 1000

Surviving for so many years with such a flawed economic system and in the meantime still having the resources to build/achieve a lot of actually quite appealing things.
Winning WW2.
Transforming Russia from a second class country to a superpower.
First space vehicle.
First man in the space...
...and so on.

Topic: What Are The Five Biggest Boldest Socialist Success Stories Since 1917? (Read 1269 times)