Topic: What are the potential side effects of corporations selling fake crypto? (Read 571 times)
March 08, 2021, 03:36:03 PM
I believe major platforms have ways of manipulating the market, but they all have their limits. I doubt how a reputable platform like PayPal would try and do something of that nature. Nevertheless, should they involve in a falsification of the real amount of bitcoin, they would easily be exposed. So far as, no one has complained of having experienced undue delays in withdrawal of bitcoin, then everything is fine on the platform.
March 08, 2021, 07:32:01 AM
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PayPal has announced you'll eventually be able to withdraw it, they're building out the capability. So OP's concern is largely theoretical since it won't exist in actuality. As a public company, PayPal wouldn't be able to get away with selling something to the public that they couldn't back up though, so even if they weren't building out the capability, their crypto sales to users would have to be backed by crypto purchases in order not to get in trouble with the SEC.
PayPal has announced you'll eventually be able to withdraw it, they're building out the capability. So OP's concern is largely theoretical since it won't exist in actuality. As a public company, PayPal wouldn't be able to get away with selling something to the public that they couldn't back up though, so even if they weren't building out the capability, their crypto sales to users would have to be backed by crypto purchases in order not to get in trouble with the SEC.
Honestly, I was expecting this move from PayPal, because it was hard to imagine a giant with 51 billion USD in total assets suddenly decided to manipulate markets in illegal way using false coins, as OP suggested. We are yet to see the impact of this news, though. A 2% rise in price isn't enough imo. I personally wasn't able to find the confirmation anywhere besides coinpedia. Maybe that's why we are witnessing no impact yet.
March 07, 2021, 10:04:07 AM
PayPal has started selling "crypto" but they don't let you withdraw.
I'm not fully aware and only have limited information about Paypal's term related to Crypto but it is for real that you can't withdraw it?
What's the purpose of buying BTC on Paypal if users can't able to withdraw it?
PayPal has announced you'll eventually be able to withdraw it, they're building out the capability. So OP's concern is largely theoretical since it won't exist in actuality. As a public company, PayPal wouldn't be able to get away with selling something to the public that they couldn't back up though, so even if they weren't building out the capability, their crypto sales to users would have to be backed by crypto purchases in order not to get in trouble with the SEC.
March 07, 2021, 12:28:38 AM
PayPal has started selling "crypto" but they don't let you withdraw. Hence, if you think about it, they could easily only literally sell numbers on a screen rather than a math-backed, miner-verified real cryptocurrency.
I was wondering what could happen from an economical point of view if they (or any other corporation) did this and suddenly wanted to manipulate markets using false coins. What could PayPal do to BTC?
I guess it already started and being tested right now as well. All those "wrapped bitcoin" things are basically saying how they are actually bitcoin but in another chain, why wouldn't bank do something like that as well? Plus what banks do is not just fake crypto, just like in fiat world they could simply make sure that they give loans and expect more back when in the world there aren't enough money to pay that.I was wondering what could happen from an economical point of view if they (or any other corporation) did this and suddenly wanted to manipulate markets using false coins. What could PayPal do to BTC?
In crypto world if banks give a loan they will want more from you right? That is how loans work, so if one day 21 million bitcoin is loaned total, what happens then? How could the interest be paid? That is going to be the real problem with the world because crypto is limited.
March 05, 2021, 02:39:28 AM
selling fake crypto are popular in this crypto currency world, they will create a fake platform and deceive people for their own desire for money, you had an issue regarding paypal? i think paypal would let you cash out your funds, they are new in this industry but paypal is good company. paypal is legit and i will buy soon in paypal digital currency.
March 02, 2021, 06:14:30 AM
By introducing Bitcoin on their platform PayPal showed their respect for the crytpo currency.
Is it respect, or is it financial profit seeking? I highly doubt it's the former, since Bitcoin is basically PayPal's enemy. I don't think there is any respect to show in the face of a currency that's willing to literally destroy you as a business.Think of the Communist China. Seeing communist countries collapsing one by one, they allowed Western businesses(basically their enemy) on their territories, thus saving themselves from crumbling. Now, is it respect for Western civilization? It surely is. And PayPal is doing the same, allowing BTC on their platform, they are trying to save themselves, to get a spot in the new world economy, where Bitcoin, their former enemy, will be the king.
February 26, 2021, 09:45:48 AM
It shouldn't be "full cashless" though. People should have the right to own physical currencies whether on centralized or decentralized system. There are lots of benefit in the use of physical currency for society. Virtual currency could easily leave a society vulnerable to tyranny for example.
Anyway, I don't believe every society will go full cashless. It will be imposed on others or they will be decieved into accepting it.
Any sane crypto person would know that we can't be fully cashless anyway, and even though I am a bitcoin (and many other crypto) maximalist that thinks that we should be 10x of what it is right now in the future easily, and maybe even 20x in the future as well, I still think that doesn't mean that we should be fully cashless that doesn't make any sense.Anyway, I don't believe every society will go full cashless. It will be imposed on others or they will be decieved into accepting it.
What I believe would be the greatest achievement for us would be to be a common payment method all around the world. We can go to any place and they will ask us if we will pay with cash or card right? Well how about we add crypto in there as well?
How about whenever I go to anywhere in the whole world, they ask me if I want to spend cash or card OR crypto as well, that would be addition and there is no need to remove the other ones. That is why I think it could be great and I believe it should be like that, not a cashless society, but a crypto added one.
February 26, 2021, 09:16:41 AM
PayPal has started selling "crypto" but they don't let you withdraw. Hence, if you think about it, they could easily only literally sell numbers on a screen rather than a math-backed, miner-verified real cryptocurrency.
I was wondering what could happen from an economical point of view if they (or any other corporation) did this and suddenly wanted to manipulate markets using false coins. What could PayPal do to BTC?
No I don’t believe that any of these things like this can affect the crypto market, especially Bitcoin. Though I’ve been thinking that the reason why PayPal has been doing this is because they are still new and they don’t have cryptocurrencies in their storage yet, so I guess they don’t want to rush into it quickly, and what they might be doing is that when you invest in their market, they then buy from other real exchanges and then keep the assets for you. Not really sure about this, I’m just saying.I was wondering what could happen from an economical point of view if they (or any other corporation) did this and suddenly wanted to manipulate markets using false coins. What could PayPal do to BTC?
But, if there are companies that are doing such thing as you have said, I think they will be at loss, because if the price should increase heavily and customers wants to withdraw their money ,the company will be the ones to be losing at a moment like this . So that’s a loss for them I think, unless they will use other customer’s fund to cover up.
February 25, 2021, 05:25:23 PM
PayPal has started selling "crypto" but they don't let you withdraw.
I'm not fully aware and only have limited information about Paypal's term related to Crypto but it is for real that you can't withdraw it?
What's the purpose of buying BTC on Paypal if users can't able to withdraw it?
Yeah, I also wonder why? Maybe bitcoin on their platform is just their marketing strategy to attract more people to use their platform. Then, if people bought bitcoin they need to exchange it into a fiat money inside paypal account before they can use it. Therefore, bitcoin on their platform is useless.
February 25, 2021, 01:44:06 PM
By introducing Bitcoin on their platform PayPal showed their respect for the crytpo currency.
Is it respect, or is it financial profit seeking? I highly doubt it's the former, since Bitcoin is basically PayPal's enemy. I don't think there is any respect to show in the face of a currency that's willing to literally destroy you as a business.Millions of their users(PayPal currently has 286 million active users), who would never think of using BTC have changed their minds. Bitcoin is no longer a "speculative bubble" or "financial pyramid" to them, it's a respected currency. After getting accustomed to it on PayPal's platform, they can buy real BTC outside(which I suspect is happening already).
Using vs investing in BTC is a significant difference, and those people who've purchased BTC through PayPal definitely aren't truly "users" of Bitcoin. When people find out how difficult it is to purchase and safely store Bitcoin outside of third parties, they will likely just give up and keep holding onto what PayPal or other corporations offer. February 25, 2021, 10:17:57 AM
the side effects can be felt to both the corporation and to the coin itself . the corporations reputation can get damage if people knew that they are fraud and selling fake products and id say it also damage the coin because people will think that its also the fault of the coin on why they got scammed or loose . not just the single coin that they bought but the effect can also spread on other coins because they will think that all coins are the same scam but if we can give a proper guidance we can avoid that to happen .
February 25, 2021, 09:22:29 AM
By introducing Bitcoin on their platform PayPal showed their respect for the crytpo currency. Millions of their users(PayPal currently has 286 million active users), who would never think of using BTC have changed their minds. Bitcoin is no longer a "speculative bubble" or "financial pyramid" to them, it's a respected currency. After getting accustomed to it on PayPal's platform, they can buy real BTC outside(which I suspect is happening already).
You are correct in your perspective. Perhaps the bright side of this is the Crypto-related literacy step to Paypal users, but with the inability to withdraw funds. They may have the ability to sell fake crypto. Because with that policy, it is possible that this is just like investing money for the benefit of the platform. While online shopping sites alone have a policy of withdrawing funds, the Paypal classmates did not make this policy. What's behind their policy? Aren't you suspicious?
February 25, 2021, 08:58:49 AM
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I also agreed that the PayPal company can't possibly manipulate a trillion dollars market but I was actually talking about the moment when the market hasn't reach $30,000 price if you follow rumors within the cryptocurrency communities (on this forum, Reddit, etc) some people believe Paypal's trading activities impact the dump in price that happens then.
Yes, there can be an effect, but only a short-living one. I think Bitcoin is so strong today that no company, whatever they do, can manipulate its price for a long term.I also agreed that the PayPal company can't possibly manipulate a trillion dollars market but I was actually talking about the moment when the market hasn't reach $30,000 price if you follow rumors within the cryptocurrency communities (on this forum, Reddit, etc) some people believe Paypal's trading activities impact the dump in price that happens then.
February 25, 2021, 08:43:25 AM
What Paypal is doing is sort of second layer Bitcoin scaling solution. Yes it is centralised. Yes it is not Bitcoin anymore. But this is what Bitcoin allows us to do and they are doing it. Just like centralised exchanges. People use them for a decade but dont really complain. Having BTC on Coinbase is similar to the moment you withdraw it. It is not really yours. Differences only that you can withdraw. You sort of can withdraw from papal to. You withdraw USD send them to some exchange and buy BTC and withdraw it. Yes, the fees will probably kill you doing this 
All Bitcoin second-layers or side-chains will not be real Bitcoins. Lightning Bitcoin will be Lightning Bitcoin. Liquid Bitcoin will be Liquid Bitcoin. They will have more decentralisation then exchanges or Paypal but still. Onchain Bitcoin is only real Bitcoin.
All Bitcoin second-layers or side-chains will not be real Bitcoins. Lightning Bitcoin will be Lightning Bitcoin. Liquid Bitcoin will be Liquid Bitcoin. They will have more decentralisation then exchanges or Paypal but still. Onchain Bitcoin is only real Bitcoin. February 25, 2021, 07:16:07 AM
PayPal has started selling "crypto" but they don't let you withdraw.
I'm not fully aware and only have limited information about Paypal's term related to Crypto but it is for real that you can't withdraw it?
What's the purpose of buying BTC on Paypal if users can't able to withdraw it?
Yeah, I also wonder why? Maybe bitcoin on their platform is just their marketing strategy to attract more people to use their platform. Then, if people bought bitcoin they need to exchange it into a fiat money inside paypal account before they can use it. Therefore, bitcoin on their platform is useless.
I disagree.
By introducing Bitcoin on their platform PayPal showed their respect for the crytpo currency. Millions of their users(PayPal currently has 286 million active users), who would never think of using BTC have changed their minds. Bitcoin is no longer a "speculative bubble" or "financial pyramid" to them, it's a respected currency. After getting accustomed to it on PayPal's platform, they can buy real BTC outside(which I suspect is happening already).
February 24, 2021, 10:49:42 AM
PayPal has started selling "crypto" but they don't let you withdraw. Hence, if you think about it, they could easily only literally sell numbers on a screen rather than a math-backed, miner-verified real cryptocurrency.
I was wondering what could happen from an economical point of view if they (or any other corporation) did this and suddenly wanted to manipulate markets using false coins. What could PayPal do to BTC?
I was wondering what could happen from an economical point of view if they (or any other corporation) did this and suddenly wanted to manipulate markets using false coins. What could PayPal do to BTC?
The first thing that is likely going to happen to these fake currencies is that value will drop drastically. Even if corporations will try to rescue their cryptos they won't be able to fight the whole market. This could be the end for the hole company if they are not careful. Keeping fake currencies a float is very expensive and doesn't work long term.
February 24, 2021, 10:21:34 AM
What else other than feeling the scam but this is going to end the career of those companies no matter how big they are so I believe their will never sell the fake numbers which apply to the exchanges as well. In this case Paypal is not selling anything they just act as a gateway to exchange so they will get the fiat then the exchange will hold the cryptos for them and this happens while buying or selling from a customer.
February 24, 2021, 09:47:51 AM
If you see how Paypal sells their Crypto service, it seems as if this is part of a scam. Another possibility is that these are only the initial stages of maintenance which are still in progress. As long as no one feels cheated by their services, there is no accurate evidence regarding the fake crypto they are selling. The data is that Paypal users still feel safe and secure with the services provided by Paypal so that's enough so far.
PayPal is one of the most trusted payment processor out there, and it has been in existence since 1998. They operate as per US laws, and therefore the users don't need to worry that someone will take their money and vanish (similar to a lot many small sized exchanges have done in the cryptocurrency sector). The user functionality is limited right now, but I hope they will make full functions available to the users in the near future. For those who use exchanges such as Huobi and Kraken, there should be no issue in using PayPal. The risk involved is the same.
I think whatever law a cryptocurrency company follows should be in harmony with the good ideals/principles of true Cryptocurrency otherwise it could result to future problems for a decentralized cryptocurrency Network/System.
February 24, 2021, 05:49:14 AM
You mean, they might be short selling those fake BTC, knowing that they can manipulate the market to make the price go down? That's an interesting point, but does PayPal have resources to manipulate a market with $1 trillion cap? I personally don't think so.
If they were willing to manipulate markets using real BTC, market cap would not matter at all. Liquidity is pretty much the main factor that matters when it comes to influencing markets. But if they wanted to manipulate markets using counterfeit (non-existent) BTC, all they have to do is just take off the limit for BTC purchases/sales. At that point, there is an infinite counterfeit BTC going in and out of PayPal's system making Bitcoin's scarcity artificially vanish.Ok, but what would they(PayPal) do if people on their platform decided to exchange those fake "BTC" to USD? USD isn't fake on PayPal, right? You can withdraw it, unlike BTC, which you can't. PayPal would be obliged to pay real USD for fake BTC they created. That's why I think it's an unrealistic scenario.
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I also agreed that the PayPal company can't possibly manipulate a trillion dollars market but I was actually talking about the moment when the market hasn't reach $30,000 price if you follow rumors within the cryptocurrency communities (on this forum, Reddit, etc) some people believe Paypal's trading activities impact the dump in price that happens then.
I also agreed that the PayPal company can't possibly manipulate a trillion dollars market but I was actually talking about the moment when the market hasn't reach $30,000 price if you follow rumors within the cryptocurrency communities (on this forum, Reddit, etc) some people believe Paypal's trading activities impact the dump in price that happens then.
Yes, there can be an effect, but only a short-living one. I think Bitcoin is so strong today that no company, whatever they do, can manipulate its price for a long term.
February 23, 2021, 01:11:33 PM
RobinHood App (they are not actually giving to the poor, quite the opposite) does that too.
The way it works they are printing endless money because people give them $$$ and in return just receive a number in the app.
This money they can loan or hedge out. Like if they have $1bn of virtual bitcoin they would only need to use a small percentage
of that to back it up in case everyone wants to sell suddenly and pull it out.
Banks work this way too, they only have 2% or 3% reserves of the actual money people have in their accounts.
The worst can happen RobinHood gamble away the customer funds and cant pay you out anymore.
The best advice is to not support these systems because you only own your bitcoin if you own your keys.
Whoa!The way it works they are printing endless money because people give them $$$ and in return just receive a number in the app.
This money they can loan or hedge out. Like if they have $1bn of virtual bitcoin they would only need to use a small percentage
of that to back it up in case everyone wants to sell suddenly and pull it out.
Banks work this way too, they only have 2% or 3% reserves of the actual money people have in their accounts.
The worst can happen RobinHood gamble away the customer funds and cant pay you out anymore.
The best advice is to not support these systems because you only own your bitcoin if you own your keys.
I am kinda hearing this for the first time. I know this system do exist, but I never knew it existed with PayPal. And to think with all the difficulties of using them, they could offer this type of service is surprising.
I can understand if this happens with fiat, but with Bitcoin, why would anyone want to even do that? This is way too risky.
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