Topic: What could eclipse Bitcoin and make it antiquated? (Read 1146 times)

Yeah guys don't listen to me,
nothing I say is of any value.
I am known for this.

Anyone want an autograph?
Might have value after I die.

But I'm no one of importance,
so pretend I was never here.

A new altcoin that can be much profitable than the bitcoin, but as many comments post here, we have to wait till that happen and see if it really outshine the bitcoin as he is today.

I see AgentofCoin is here selling bullshit and playing rewrite history again.
That guy is known for making new shit up every reply.

Bitcoin can outshine any other e-currency that will function better and possibly even bring more profit. Time does not stand still and many developers are trying to create something better than bitcoin.

What will eclipse Bitcoin? The post-scarcity society. But that's still a long way down the road.


Are you serious or are you just throwing random buzzwords around?

Bitcoin is a P2P payment system, with this purpose it was created, but if bitcoin fails to serve its main purpose, as a medium of exchange then it might become obsolete in future.

There is no denying the fact that bitcoin gets its value from being a decentralized P2P payment system, the store of value is an extension of this. If the former fails, no store of value.

There are hoarders and spenders. There is nothing wrong in considering bitcoin as an investment vehicle, but in the long run if a balance is not maintained between bitcoins use as an medium of exchange vs store of value, it would stall its growth.

Why it is believed that bitcoin would provide economic freedom? Simply because no central authority, not dependent on third party, quick transfer, low fees. Now the majority of the world population are not into trading, nor hoarding, they just want to use a currency which would give them economic freedom and that's what bitcoin is for.

Scarcity has its limitations, it is tied to demand. Do you think a small population consisting of traders and hoarders would be able to keep the demand of bitcoin high forever? Its simply impossible, circulating the same thing over and over between the same number of people would put an end to demand.

Right now bitcoin is limited to two activities, trading and hoarding and because of this bitcoin market could be manipulated easily, but bitcoin needs to be adopted by more people to be used as a currency and this would make it less volatile and less prone to manipulations and this is necessary if bitcoin needs to avoid becoming obsolete in future.

Nothing against hoarders, just my opinion. Roger Ver does believe hoarders are more important than spenders, 4 days

No, i'm a firm bitcoin believer and i don't think that any coin is close to overtaking bitcoin yet. Not even ethereum.

The thing is, you don't need fancy decentralized applications in real life. In real life, all you need is something that you can pay with anonymously and quickly with minimal fee, and that's it. People yell at me, hey, the fees are so damn high but it's a short term issue, and it's still darn cheap to send people money across borders with such high fees by bitcoin standards.


Flaw 1: Your argument assumes that transaction fees are going to stay high, you even said that yourself that it's a short term issue so why bother saying it as your main argument?
Flaw 2: So many altcoin sare just there for the funding, and when the ICO hype fades, the devs become less and less active until the project goes dead.

The closest contender is probably XMR in my opinion, if the government outlaws BTC holdings, then you can see how XMR is useful with its private tx's.

The only thing I can think of would be a quantum computer synced with artificial intelligent network version of Bitcoin. But even then I think I believe Bitcoin could've evolved to adopt any of those features that would render it useless.

You don't need deep cryptography and monetary system experience to know the problems of bitcoin and theoretically build a bitcoin V2 fixing those flaws.

Flaw 1: Long transaction times unless you pay a high transaction fee.
Flaw 2: High transaction fees although it should be better after Segwit gets activated on August the first.

I think that in the long term bitcoin will definitely will be overtaken, by another future currency that improves on bitcoin flaws and has more special features. There are already have altcoins with other special features, like an alt coin that is revolved of the idea of your fingerprint. Right now though, we don't another competitor to bitcoin, but in the future who knows?

Those that say that Bitcoin could be replaced with a competitor with "better tech" must first evaluate what problem that "tech" would have to solve.

Ethereum, for example, may be "more advanced" than Bitcoin because of its Turing-complete script language, but that language has nothing to do with the main USP Bitcoin is "selling": decentralized, trustless payments.

Different was the case if the "better tech" was able to improve on Bitcoin's payment feature. For example, offering less fees (e.g. by using PoS that is less resource-consuming for validators/miners and allows them to charge less), or offering better privacy without sacrificing scalability. In most coins that attempt to solve one of these problems, other problems emerge (like the larger transactions in Monero and ZCash). So for now, we don't have a real contender, but it's not impossible there won't be one in the future.

No. The 4th dimension, in this particular way, is only used for
relaying data. Crypto-currency data is not encrypted since that data
needs to verified publicly by all miners and nodes that are participating
in all times, but the miners and nodes are never leaving their current
location in time. They are only all "peaking into the future" by receiving
data through microscopic wormhole tunneling and confirming their current
time's actions with this data.

If you find a block or make a transaction, it is subject to your location
in time and that action will correspond to a pre-existing entry in the
4D blockchain. (When this occurs, it is no longer "sending a tx" or
"finding a block", but becomes "revealing a tx" or "reaffirming the block"
since all actions are already known.) The 4D blockchain is only a simple
3D blockchain, where the full record has been broadcast through the 4th
dimension, so that past nodes may have a full record from genesis till the
last block. This system allows for many new properties such as
"predetermined accountability" and "settled security".

You can not create more coins or exceed the coin limit since the amount
of coins is contingent on the future nodes that are broadcasting the finalized
ledger. All nodes that can broadcast into the 4th dimension enforce the
decentralized protocol and prevent doublespending or tokenduping. All
receiver nodes only enforce and participate within their own time, until they
reach the point in time where they are advanced enough to also broadcast
into the 4th dimension with their independently built partial ledgers.

If you wish to send your past self coins from your future, that TX will only
correspond to your location in future time. If your parent output is in your
future, and your child output is to your past self, the past miners will
consider that TX as invalid, so you can not "send coins back in time".
To circumvent this, you would need to broadcast an encrypted message
(privatekey to a Satoshi address) through the 4th dimension and hope that
not only is your past self listening and has the password to your encrypted
message, but also that no advanced AI is observing all 4D communications
and decide to intervene in your particular action. At this point in time,
thinking machines will defer almost all operations to this dimension for
efficiency. If they deem your communication to the past to be dangerous
or malicious to their future objectives, they will intervene either
electronically or physically.

Beep Boop.

Sooo...time travel, essentially. Yes? So you could draw on funds that were available years ago? Technically this would create an endless money supply and therefore devalue the currency, no?


I like this idea! But it does worry me that you still say "maybe" to the question can it be made antiquated?

I suppose everything can and it's not usually not possible to understand how until that eclipsing technology is in the process or has been developed. Thanks all. Great ideas.

Basically, humans currently can not enter the 4th dimension,
but can transmit data through it, whether or not there is a receiver
there. If a crypto-currency could be created that uses 4th dimensional
space in order to carry all the network's data and relaying, it is possible
to provide proofs to the past, in the present, and to the future, and
in what would be perceived in the 3rd as being instantaneous. (TXs
sent to the past, if receivable and understandable, are only used
for communication. These TXs would be considered misunderstood
anomalies until they were recognized as using a computer language.)

This system would allow nodes throughout time to communicate with
the 4th dimensional network "in real time" providing the only efficient
way to bypass the technological limitations of silicon and organic
circuit transmission.

Ultimately, it is very complex and when you participate with this
network, your pending transaction was already confirmed and placed
in a block years ago (from the miner's perspective in your future),
but prior to your present thought and broadcast, you didn't know
that pre-existing tx on the 4D blockchain corresponded to your
current action now. Essentially, it existed prior to your action,
but was always contingent (or relative) to your location in time.

This would make Bitcoin antiquated and obsolete, IMO.
Private monetary systems no longer exist on Earth, in this future.

The whole world of cryptocurrency is an open world and really nothing is impossible. Bitcoin  remains to be the King of Cryptos but any king can be dethroned if there is a widespread demand for it. So if there would be a massive shift to another coin and Bitcoin can be left behind then by that time Bitcoin can be just another footnote in cryptocurrency history.

However, I don't see that happening soon. There have been some analysts and experts who are suggesting that Ethereum can be the one to eventually overtake Bitcoin but when a great weakness of Ethereum was recently exposed many are already expressing some doubts...though Ethereum is like an orange and Bitcoin is an apple so comparison may not be fair enough. 

Personally, I don't wish for Bitcoin to go as it has not yet reached its full potential. And actually there for now there is no need to replace it though there are many altcoins available that can even be better than Bitcoin...still nothing can beat the original and the number one.

In this sense, I see bitcoin the same way I see the internet protocol. Has there or is there or will there ever be anything out there that can eclipse the internet and make it antiquated? Maybe, but not likely anytime soon.

4th dimension, so allow you to make transactions in the future or the past? What would a 4th dimension be for you and how would enable evolution to a decentralized and private monetary system?


I'd argue that a store of value is utility. Stock in a company has utility because it represents ownership in something with underlying value. Is Bitcoin (as a store of value) not the same? If now, why not?


Yeah, "better tech"...that's what I'm asking, what would be better technology to make Bitcoin obsolete?

As for Ethereum, it's fantastic, but it's not a competitor to Bitcoin. Ethereum tokens aren't a monetary currency, they're a processing power currency. Literally, the value of Ether represents the value of processing power on their blockchain. It's a brilliant new addition to this industry, but it's not a currency it's a blockchain platform.


Hmm, so you think the thing to eclipse Bitcoin would be a step back to government-owned currency. I don't like that idea. The only question I have is why a government would want to encrypt the ownership of transactions (as crypto-currencies do)...answer: They wouldn't.

I love the ideas, keep them coming. And to be clear, I don't think Bitcoin is going away any time soon but every new development in the history of man has been retired by something better. The only exception is the leading edge technology today which has not yet been proven to be obsolete...but history says that day will come.

everyone pays taxes.. if you dont a red flag would appear. they would then look into things like is your name listed against a mortgage/land ownership, car rental/ownership and questions start to arise as to how you can afford such things without technically any income.
then its ends up being the avoider having to explain where/how the car/house got paid and then lots of legal bureaucracy.

the reality of taxes is that the government do not nor ever did "have a way of calculating tax. " people owed. it has always been down to people declaring how can afford to survive. by either self assessment or employer informing the tax authority.

the taxmen only really go after those that dont declare any income/tax yet have names listed against many things like mortgages/assets.

(best tax evaders put all their homes/ assets into trusts, to avoid having their name listed against their luxuries and spend only a few months in each country to avoid being a 'resident')


a government crypto wont be 'revolutionary' in the way bitcoin is. infact it will change peoples lives in little to no different way compared to today. all that will effectively happen is that it will cut the costs of the government auditing/managing fiat and cutting the headaches out of seizing control, accessing info about citizens. basically only benefitting the government/bank, not the citizen

But governments would have no way of knowing how much Bitcoin that one earned. Thus, they have no way of calculating tax.

This is where the national crypto comes into play. If the utopian future of everyone using Bitcoin actually comes to be, (very unlikely) governments would implement a national crypto with "reliable" wallets. (in truth they would be controlling all your private keys) Most citizens would use these "reliable" wallets and the governments can then see how much you have in cryptos. Taxes can then be calculated from here. For example, look at Ecuador. Here read this article: http://www.cnbc.com/2015/02/06/ecuador-becomes-the-first-country-to-roll-out-its-own-digital-durrency.html

This is how a national crypto can take over Bitcoin. Does that make sense?

even if lets say footballer(soccer) david beckham is natively from the UK and travelled around the world. he still had to pay tax on things. yep no matter what currency he used or earned playing in different countries. he still had to pay tax.

same with many things. if you live in america but get paid in euro's, by living in america you have to abide by american tax rules. meaning converting euro's to dollars to pay the dollar tax

so even if bitcoin is not a US legal tender or have any government jurisdiction. labour laws and other 'residence' laws mean you have to pay your taxes in dollars

..
though fiat is created out of nothing. thus has no intrinsic value. where fiat survives is in law.. the law of minimum wage,the law of tax and the law of debt/court fines

it does not matter if you are trading favours, trading services, trading goods. if you owe something. its usually by court or government turned into a debt that needs to be repaid in fiat(lgal tender) of the jurisdiction/court/government that the parties involved reside.

so even if a utopian future occurred where all merchants accepted bitcoin. government/taxes/debt would still need to be repaid in the 'legal tender' of the country

so those thinking toppling government can happen just by using something different.. wont succeed in toppling government. infact it will end up those tax avoiders end up paying more back in fines/ legal costs

to topple a government you have to actually change the laws. and yes most laws are there to protect the government/banks not the people. yep even minimum wage law has more benefit for enforcing 'legal tender' than it does for enforcing people get a decent living wage
....
governments will have a 'crypto'.. and its happening. just research "hyperledger" to keep upto date on what governments and banks are getting into

You know what, this is a similar question that I had thought of before. I think the best answer to this would be a government tendered crypto-fiat. Now you may be shocked at this point, but let me explain myself.

Ok, let's say Bitcoin hits mainstream media. It takes over the world and governments would obviously be afraid. Whilst Bitcoin thrives, economies fall. This is because no one is paying any more tax. Everyone is paying in Bitcoin now. But like this won't last. True to the saying, 'you can't avoid 2 things in life; taxes and death', government will find a way to implement tax. The only way that I can see them doing this is by forcing everyone to make a national crypto-fiat. And so everyone will have to use that. Thus, Bitcoin could be eclipsed.

Does that make sense? Please respond to this with your comments.