Topic: What does Proof of Reserves mean and... (Read 321 times)
Proof of Reserves is meant to show "solvency"; however, it only tells part of the story. It doesn't tell you if the exchange has made bad bets. Also, consider the allocation of said reserves- beware of those with too much reserves in their own token.
What is your take on this as an investor in crypto?
Will it add any impact on your decision to get into crypto or stay away from it?
I like bitcoin and crypto in general before their so called proof of reserve, and I will like them after. Before FTX, we have seen many disappointments in the past, but we do not just experienced it. Why? Because it is not good to leave fund on an exchange. People should know that they do not have the private key, they do not have the control, it is not their coins on blockchain. With proof of reserve, you still do not have full control over your coins on exchanges, it can be seized, your account can be blocked, you may need money when withdraw option is disabled. What can perfectly solve this is not to trust your coins with anyone, use a noncustodial wallet.Will it add any impact on your decision to get into crypto or stay away from it?
Do not believe that proof of reserve can not be manipulated.
That means you can keep saying not your keys not your money for another decade and yet people will do what they want to do, no idea why they keep doing it, but I do have some money in binance too, so I guess I have some idea why.
The FTX case surprised us and never thought that the top exchanges that had millions of users and daily transaction volumes were more than 1 billion USD per day could go bankrupt, if previously there was an exchange that went bankrupt or scam in my opinion was common, but the FTX case that made a big shock And make us always be vigilant.
Very very important i am really ready to put my money in a project which is about to bring upon this change in the industry. To create a sort of dashboard API to regularly monitor this thing for people. This might be a nightmare for exchanges but after the case of FTX it's more like a necessity for us. I think this will transfer the burden on the exchanges to make sure they keep user's funds not only in appropriate amounts but also in appropriate asset type.
Why will an exchange think that it is a nightmare for them? They didn't want to be tracked out? If they have bad intentions, yes but for those who are clean, they won't be bothered about it. It is in fact beneficial for both parties because people will gain trust so they won't hesitate to put their money in the exchange and the exchange itself is going to be more in demand. They can now earn more profits because of it.This proof of reserve thing should have been invented long time ago as early as the mt gox collapsed but they didn't do it, and have waited for more damages to happen before they finally decided to implement it. Oh well it's better late than later/never.
What is your take on this as an investor in crypto?
Proof of funds means security for the supporters and investors. Making the funds reserve public ensure the public that the project has enough money to operate. It is also and indication that the development team is serious in taking the project to new heights since they are honest enough to provide details of project fundings which many corrupt developers hides.
Will it add any impact on your decision to get into crypto or stay away from it?
Definitely, it is good to invest in a platform that has enough fund to continue its development. After all we cannot really feel the profit in the early development of a project except if its market is pumped which obviously ends up in a dump.
The lack of liquidity is a problem, not the only problem.
First of all, there's a lot of ambiguity in where the assets of an exchange exist and whether they're liquid assets or not. I imagine they do this purposefully because most exchanges are great at mismanaging their users' funds. I don't anticipate many enterprises are willing to disclose proof of reserves to any degree of certainty.
First of all, there's a lot of ambiguity in where the assets of an exchange exist and whether they're liquid assets or not. I imagine they do this purposefully because most exchanges are great at mismanaging their users' funds. I don't anticipate many enterprises are willing to disclose proof of reserves to any degree of certainty.
That is why proof of reserve or proof of fund where the address that holds the fund is published. This way we can see whether a project can continue its development/operation or not.
Say you had a real time checking mechanism to determine the underlying liquidity an exchange has, that still doesn't matter -- you transfer any funds into an online account and those funds are not yours. They're an assurance that the funds will exist if you choose to withdraw, and that assurance is worthless. You're still liable to hacks or getting locked from your account for whatever arbitrary reason.
Proof of reserves help but they don't solve the issue.
Proof of reserves help but they don't solve the issue.
Proof of reserve isn't for anti hacking, or whatever issue you are thinking. Proof of reserve purpose is to show to the public that the company has enough funds to do its service without any problem.
how will it affect anyone's decision to invest in crypto?
Proof of Reserves
Also known as Proof of Funds, Proof-of-reserves is a way to allow customers to monitor the balances of an exchange.1
This is an important step for the exchanges in order to keep their customers ' and investors' faith alive in crypto. This will make lots of things transparent about many crypto exchanges and will also weed out various bad actors who had been hiding their deeds since long time.
What is your take on this as an investor in crypto?
Will it add any impact on your decision to get into crypto or stay away from it?
1. Source
Very very important i am really ready to put my money in a project which is about to bring upon this change in the industry. To create a sort of dashboard API to regularly monitor this thing for people. This might be a nightmare for exchanges but after the case of FTX it's more like a necessity for us. I think this will transfer the burden on the exchanges to make sure they keep user's funds not only in appropriate amounts but also in appropriate asset type. Proof of Reserves
Also known as Proof of Funds, Proof-of-reserves is a way to allow customers to monitor the balances of an exchange.1
This is an important step for the exchanges in order to keep their customers ' and investors' faith alive in crypto. This will make lots of things transparent about many crypto exchanges and will also weed out various bad actors who had been hiding their deeds since long time.
What is your take on this as an investor in crypto?
Will it add any impact on your decision to get into crypto or stay away from it?
1. Source
But what is certain is that they (CEX) are trying to fix the public stigma circulating about crypto in droves by demonstrating Fof/PoR.
It's not working.
Imagine if Politicians started talking about 'Proof of Honesty'. All that would do is draw attention to how much they lie. And it's the same with this. They wouldn't need to be making a big song and dance about this if they could be trusted to begin with. All they're doing is shining a spotlight on how vulnerable they are. Hopefully hastening their own demise.
Yes, they do that to show proof of reserves purpose is to ask users to be able to trust them again, maybe beginners in the crypto world will easily trust them because they have trillions of dollars worth of assets in them without knowing their liquidity, but not us.
CEX is very dangerous, the requirement to use the platform is to do KYC first and fulfill personal data such as using an ID card, passport, and other data.
Personal data will be very dangerous if leaked into the wrong hands, even the consequences can be worse than losing money on the platform, it is also possible that the CEX platform can sell user data for their benefit.
The lack of liquidity is a problem, not the only problem.
First of all, there's a lot of ambiguity in where the assets of an exchange exist and whether they're liquid assets or not. I imagine they do this purposefully because most exchanges are great at mismanaging their users' funds. I don't anticipate many enterprises are willing to disclose proof of reserves to any degree of certainty.
Say you had a real time checking mechanism to determine the underlying liquidity an exchange has, that still doesn't matter -- you transfer any funds into an online account and those funds are not yours. They're an assurance that the funds will exist if you choose to withdraw, and that assurance is worthless. You're still liable to hacks or getting locked from your account for whatever arbitrary reason.
Proof of reserves help but they don't solve the issue.
First of all, there's a lot of ambiguity in where the assets of an exchange exist and whether they're liquid assets or not. I imagine they do this purposefully because most exchanges are great at mismanaging their users' funds. I don't anticipate many enterprises are willing to disclose proof of reserves to any degree of certainty.
Say you had a real time checking mechanism to determine the underlying liquidity an exchange has, that still doesn't matter -- you transfer any funds into an online account and those funds are not yours. They're an assurance that the funds will exist if you choose to withdraw, and that assurance is worthless. You're still liable to hacks or getting locked from your account for whatever arbitrary reason.
Proof of reserves help but they don't solve the issue.
But what is certain is that they (CEX) are trying to fix the public stigma circulating about crypto in droves by demonstrating Fof/PoR.
It's not working.
Imagine if Politicians started talking about 'Proof of Honesty'. All that would do is draw attention to how much they lie. And it's the same with this. They wouldn't need to be making a big song and dance about this if they could be trusted to begin with. All they're doing is shining a spotlight on how vulnerable they are. Hopefully hastening their own demise.
how will it affect anyone's decision to invest in crypto?
Proof of Reserves
Also known as Proof of Funds, Proof-of-reserves is a way to allow customers to monitor the balances of an exchange.1
This is an important step for the exchanges in order to keep their customers ' and investors' faith alive in crypto. This will make lots of things transparent about many crypto exchanges and will also weed out various bad actors who had been hiding their deeds since long time.
Several Centralize Exchanges are currently and have conducted audits regarding proof of Reserve (PoR).Proof of Reserves
Also known as Proof of Funds, Proof-of-reserves is a way to allow customers to monitor the balances of an exchange.1
This is an important step for the exchanges in order to keep their customers ' and investors' faith alive in crypto. This will make lots of things transparent about many crypto exchanges and will also weed out various bad actors who had been hiding their deeds since long time.
Binance : https://www.binance.com/en/blog/community/our-commitment-to-transparency-2895840147147652626
Crypto.com : Still in the audit stage, BTC wallet addresses, ETH, ERC20 wallet addresses.
OKX : Still in the audit stage, BTC Address 1, BTC Address 2, BTC Address 3, BTC Address 4,
ERC20 Address 1, ERC20 Address 2, ERC20 Address 3, ERC20 Address 4.
Deriibit : https://insights.deribit.com/exchange-updates/deribit-wallet-holdings/
KuCoin : https://www.kucoin.com/id/blog/transparency-and-trust-a-detailed-list-of-kucoin-s-wallets
Huobi : https://www.huobi.com/support/en-us/detail/24922606430831
Bitfinex : https://github.com/bitfinexcom/pub/blob/main/wallets.txt
ByBit : https://portfolio.nansen.ai/dashboard/bybit
I personally don't know that the data is real or that it has been manipulated because it takes time to check it all. But what is certain is that they (CEX) are trying to fix the public stigma circulating about crypto in droves by demonstrating Fof/PoR.
Why don’t we just follow Satoshi in the first place?
A small part of people does that, but the majority did not invest in Bitcoin because of what it represents and why it was invented, but they are only interested in profit and do not care too much how it will be achieved. This means that they basically do not understand concepts like blockchain, private and public keys, mempool or fees for sending transactions.
The question arises, how are you going to explain these things to these people if they are not really interested in it? Therefore, they are perfect for what CEX represents, and I don't think much will change there.
Let me get this right, so Satoshi came in with great vision of making decentralised model of financial system. He invented blockchain, implemented all the bitcoin protocols and started proof of work as its working model. Everyone was happy, as everyone could see the transactions over block explorer and get public confirmations.
Then most stupidest peeps jump into the market they create extra layer of exchangers to expose the whole meaning of PoW and anonymous nature by exposing us to the KYC processes.
This too without any proof of their funds!
So then again the most stupidest peeps come together and form another layer to be implemented so that they can make the centralised working “decentralised” by showing their funds to us.
Wow, you got me.
Why don’t we just follow Satoshi in the first place?
Then most stupidest peeps jump into the market they create extra layer of exchangers to expose the whole meaning of PoW and anonymous nature by exposing us to the KYC processes.
This too without any proof of their funds!
So then again the most stupidest peeps come together and form another layer to be implemented so that they can make the centralised working “decentralised” by showing their funds to us.
Wow, you got me.
Why don’t we just follow Satoshi in the first place?
the only measure that would be effective is for people to understand that crypto exchanges are not banks and not to use them in that way. If you are not in sole possession of your private keys, you have nothing but empty promises.
Indeed. Not worth the paper it isn't even written on.
It's as though they're trying to appropriate and pervert the mantra "Don't Trust, Verify", by claiming that you'll be able to verify they have funds. But it's just an obfuscation.
If an exchange were to sign a message or provide some other cryptographic proof that they hold 1000 BTC, someone might interpret that as "proof of reserves" and imagine it's safe. But then imagine that particular exchange happens to be in debt to the tune of 4000 BTC. All of a sudden, people might realise only possessing 1000 BTC still means it would be incredibly dangerous to deposit funds with them. They clearly aren't solvent.
But the thing is, you'll never get to know if these so-called companies are solvent or not because they'll never get customers to deposit funds if they were up-front and honest about that. You won't find out until it's too late and you've lost your BTC forever.
Maybe the new mantra should be "Don't trust, because you can't verify anything when it comes to strangers on the internet".
So this proof of reserves is a nice advertising some exchanges want to pull... and not much more.
While Proof of Reserve is probably a step forward, I personally don't care about it and won't make me feel trust centralized exchanges and platforms any more than I (dis)trust them now. Big problem with it is that it can be manipulated with, and since it can, it will.
I have nothing much more to add to your statements, because it would be rather naive to believe that such things can change something, at least not to such an extent that it would prevent some new genius from doing the same thing that Bankman or Cotten did. Every hole they patch opens a new one through which some manipulation can be carried out again, and the only measure that would be effective is for people to understand that crypto exchanges are not banks and not to use them in that way. If you are not in sole possession of your private keys, you have nothing but empty promises.
https://coinmarketcap.com/rankings/exchanges/
coinmarketcap has already added the ability to view exchange reserves. Near the name of the exchange there is an icon, after clicking on which you will see full information about the reserves of the exchange.I don't have full statistics yet, but most of the losses I think will be from exchange and fund bankruptcy and not hacking.
coinmarketcap has already added the ability to view exchange reserves. Near the name of the exchange there is an icon, after clicking on which you will see full information about the reserves of the exchange.I don't have full statistics yet, but most of the losses I think will be from exchange and fund bankruptcy and not hacking.
Proof of Reserves
Also known as Proof of Funds, Proof-of-reserves is a way to allow customers to monitor the balances of an exchange.1
Also known as Proof of Funds, Proof-of-reserves is a way to allow customers to monitor the balances of an exchange.1
Why do i need to monitor a crypto exchange proof of funds, am i their rented auditor? Do you think they cannot falsify it in your mind? I can only advise someone to engage a thorough research or rather avoid any exchange or centralized institutions from having dealings with them.
What is your take on this as an investor in crypto?
Will it add any impact on your decision to get into crypto or stay away from it?
Will it add any impact on your decision to get into crypto or stay away from it?
I cannot rely on the level of the research I've conducted to engage my entire trust on crypto exchanges knowing how they have been a source of bankruptcy to many investors and how insecure they are in security and privacy, they will always hype thier data to entice you to invest it you're greedy enough, but if you can't risk yourself with them better option is to avoid deals with them, considering the numbers of shitcoins out there.
how will it affect anyone's decision to invest in crypto?
Proof of Reserves
Also known as Proof of Funds, Proof-of-reserves is a way to allow customers to monitor the balances of an exchange.1
This is an important step for the exchanges in order to keep their customers ' and investors' faith alive in crypto. This will make lots of things transparent about many crypto exchanges and will also weed out various bad actors who had been hiding their deeds since long time.
What is your take on this as an investor in crypto?
Will it add any impact on your decision to get into crypto or stay away from it?
1. Source
Proof of Reserves
Also known as Proof of Funds, Proof-of-reserves is a way to allow customers to monitor the balances of an exchange.1
This is an important step for the exchanges in order to keep their customers ' and investors' faith alive in crypto. This will make lots of things transparent about many crypto exchanges and will also weed out various bad actors who had been hiding their deeds since long time.
What is your take on this as an investor in crypto?
Will it add any impact on your decision to get into crypto or stay away from it?
1. Source
I think the exchanges are desperate to keep their clients during such turbulent time during which people are becoming less and less trusting of centralized exchanges. So obviously, nobody will really trust in this new "proof of reserves" marketing PR coming from the exchanges. If they want to screw people over, they will. And it does not matter how much good-will PR they post on their social medias.
Its time to step away from CEXes and just let them die. They undermine everything crypto (and especially Bitcoin) stands for.
Proof of Reserves is still bullshit if the company who will do the audit is a private company that can be paid. People can only trust this audit if they will prove ownership on chain such as signed message on the address containing the tokens.
The whole idea is that it doesn't rely on a private company. But what people need to understand is that reserves are only half of the picture. I don't trust this at all. It feels like a deflection. NeuroticFish's post raises the most salient points. It's not enough to know a service has funds, it's about what they're doing with those funds.
Having a proof of reserve means nothing, because at the end of the day, the crypto exchange owner could still run away with all the "reserves" held by the crypto exchange and claim that the crypto exchange platform was "hacked" (which is the classical exit scam).
The concept of "proof of reserve" would mean anything, if the crypto exchanges hold their reserves in a trusted third party, which is accountable for keeping those reserves safe. Just like all the banks have reserves in the central bank. This concept also isn't 100% safe, but there's no 100% safety in real life.
The concept of "proof of reserve" would mean anything, if the crypto exchanges hold their reserves in a trusted third party, which is accountable for keeping those reserves safe. Just like all the banks have reserves in the central bank. This concept also isn't 100% safe, but there's no 100% safety in real life.
how will it affect anyone's decision to invest in crypto?
Proof of Reserves
Also known as Proof of Funds, Proof-of-reserves is a way to allow customers to monitor the balances of an exchange.1
This is an important step for the exchanges in order to keep their customers ' and investors' faith alive in crypto. This will make lots of things transparent about many crypto exchanges and will also weed out various bad actors who had been hiding their deeds since long time.
What is your take on this as an investor in crypto?
Will it add any impact on your decision to get into crypto or stay away from it?
1. Source
Proof of Reserves
Also known as Proof of Funds, Proof-of-reserves is a way to allow customers to monitor the balances of an exchange.1
This is an important step for the exchanges in order to keep their customers ' and investors' faith alive in crypto. This will make lots of things transparent about many crypto exchanges and will also weed out various bad actors who had been hiding their deeds since long time.
What is your take on this as an investor in crypto?
Will it add any impact on your decision to get into crypto or stay away from it?
1. Source
I like to enjoy the complete transparency as well but look these things from the Exchange's point of view, don't you think this will make them more vulnerable to hack attacks?
So I tend to disagree with the idea, and if you feel that exchange is not trusted then just move to new one ar atleast we need to use the decentralized exchanges now because we don't need to trust anyone out there, just our money and our responsibility.
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