What does Quantum Computing mean for Bitcoin? - page 4.

ctoon6

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Quote from: RodeoX on September 01, 2011, 12:55:10 PM

The spookiest thing about quantum (Einstien called it spooky) is that we do not know how it works. For all we know research may discover ways of accessing secure data via multidimensional exploits. It's no longer even out of the question to think that cause and effect is just a phenomena created by our feeble ability to perceive what's really going on.

I teach biology, and I often wonder if there is a quantum connection between wave colapse and the state we call "living". Right now I can't explain to my students the difference between a dead bird and a live bird.
You are going to hear a lot more about this in the future.

a "real" answer
living is nothing more than chemical reactions and electrical impulses, all working together to create an illusion of live and death.

heres a little something to think about
for all we know or i know, you or i could be "god" and only imagining this thing we call life on earth. we could be like in the matrix for all we know. or you might not exist at all, in theory everything could be everything, and you perception of reality could just be a "wave"

Piper67

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Heh... Richard Feynman, who was instrumental in developing quantum electrodynamics, once famously said that "if you think you understand quantum theory, you don't understand quantum theory".

I hope the same thing applies to quantum computing. Cheesy

neptop

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Time for some conspiracy!

I guess there are a lot of rich people and institution with serious interests in quantum computing because of what it means to security. DARPA always had some secret research in various fields for example. They have virtually unlimited funds. However with the ability to really break (as opposed to just break it by the means of finding something better than brute force) cryptography you are powerful enough to care about Bitcoins or financial institutions anymore.

RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

The spookiest thing about quantum (Einstien called it spooky) is that we do not know how it works. For all we know research may discover ways of accessing secure data via multidimensional exploits. It's no longer even out of the question to think that cause and effect is just a phenomena created by our feeble ability to perceive what's really going on.

I teach biology, and I often wonder if there is a quantum connection between wave colapse and the state we call "living". Right now I can't explain to my students the difference between a dead bird and a live bird.
You are going to hear a lot more about this in the future.

ctoon6

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Activity: 350

Merit: 251

Quote from: hashcoin on August 27, 2011, 09:41:00 PM

With QC, far better things can be done than bitcoin. In particular, it is possible to design quantum e-cash where transactions occur entirely offline and yet doublespending is prevented (i.e., no global blockchain that must be aware of all transactions).

http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/52007

wanna sum it all up so i don't have to read 15 pages of high level math and complicated quantum theories?

hashcoin

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With QC, far better things can be done than bitcoin. In particular, it is possible to design quantum e-cash where transactions occur entirely offline and yet doublespending is prevented (i.e., no global blockchain that must be aware of all transactions).

http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/52007

Quantus

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Quote from: paulie_w on January 27, 2011, 11:28:56 AM

Simple question, and I am by no means well-rounded in my knowledge of quantum computing. But what I have read indicates that it is a massive hammer to all crypto algos currently in existence. Could the sudden existence of quantum computing mean the sudden uselessness of Bitcoin as a currency?

simply yes. "not if but when they come out with powerful Quantum computers it will simply Crush any and all encryption commonly used today"

ctoon6

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Quote from: qbg on August 27, 2011, 08:07:25 PM

Quote from: ctoon6 on August 27, 2011, 07:41:13 PM

2. all encryption can be broken with enough time AFAIK

Except the one time pad.

thats not encryption, thats 2 factor verification, and it too is easily defeated

man in the middle attack
how do you handle it when you "lose" your security token?
phishing

qbg

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Quote from: ctoon6 on August 27, 2011, 07:41:13 PM

2. all encryption can be broken with enough time AFAIK

Except the one time pad.

ctoon6

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AFAIK cryptography is never "safe" it has many weaknesses.

1. the vault is only as secure as the key

in theory you never need to encrypt you private keys, just keep them in a place where others can not see it or access it.

2. all encryption can be broken with enough time AFAIK

3. to combat QC now, simply increase the encryption now to unrealistic heights. then you have time to reimplement the needed security once you understand the problem.

to find a private key from a public key would still probably take a while, my guess would be at best, a few days.

4. alternate chains will emerge and probably try to address these problems

and lets not forget the most important thing.

i have yet to see any real benchmark of QC doing real work, and i don't see that happening in the next 5 years.

kjj

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Quote from: sgravina on August 22, 2011, 02:11:14 PM

The best quantum computation ever was the successful factoring of the number 15 into it's prime constituents, 3 and 5. It did this really slowly.

Quantum computing is interesting and worth pursuing for many reasons, but it will never be a useful computational device.

I don't really know the future, I'm just guessing based on the unsolved problem of reading more than a few qubits of information before it is lost to the environment. Or the unsolved problem of storing more than a few qubits of information in a device without losing it.

Beyond a few qubits, at least 2 but less than 8, you can't program a problem for a quantum computer and you can't read the result.

I'm going to disagree. The difficulties are, I think, just a matter of engineering. Extremely difficult engineering, to be sure, but with a huge payoff.

Quantum information theory is too important to be left unused.

sgravina

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The best quantum computation ever was the successful factoring of the number 15 into it's prime constituents, 3 and 5. It did this really slowly.

Quantum computing is interesting and worth pursuing for many reasons, but it will never be a useful computational device.

I don't really know the future, I'm just guessing based on the unsolved problem of reading more than a few qubits of information before it is lost to the environment. Or the unsolved problem of storing more than a few qubits of information in a device without losing it.

Beyond a few qubits, at least 2 but less than 8, you can't program a problem for a quantum computer and you can't read the result.

Sam

Pieter Wuille

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Assuming QC "suddenly" appears, and ECDSA is instantaneously crackable using Shor's algorithm, and SHA256/RIPEMD160 become vulnerable to Grover's algorithm:

Every unspent coin, sent to an address whose pubkey is not yet revealed, is somewhat safe (80 bit security left, instead of 160 bit)
The block chain is quite safe (128 bit security left, instead of 256 bit)
Transactions to new quantum-computing-based addresses with corresponding keys, are safe
... only unspent coins sent to reused addresses will be trivially claimable by any attacker (a few bits of security left, instead of 128 bit)

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

If some qc is created that is so powerful like it would solve all BTC, then likely it will be simply used as a superweapon to create bioweapons that will selectively kill entire races of people. It will also probably be used to solve the problem of fusion so some country can destroy an entire continent without any radioactive fallout. I doubt that we will have to worry about it being used to destroy bitcoin. OTOH there is a very small chance it could be used to help mankind never have any need for money at all and allow us to live in peace.

tl;dr QC > BTC

Saturn7

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This is the best doc I've read on qc.

http://www.obld.net/qcintro.pdf

caston

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would we call this "qubitcoin"?

bitcoinBull

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rippleFanatic

Quote from: Jaime Frontero on June 01, 2011, 04:58:03 PM

Quote from: bitcoinBull on June 01, 2011, 04:15:59 PM

This entity would be able to recover all lost bitcoins!

oh my.

now that is interesting.

Unless the network subsequently upgraded to a post-quantum version without backwards-compatibility, which would render all coins not re-sent by then as obsolete.

I don't know the technicals well enough to say with confidence that this is the only scenario. But if the upgrade to post-quantum is compatible with the current blockchain, it seems this would be how.

LegitBit

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: paulie_w on January 27, 2011, 11:28:56 AM

Could the sudden existence of quantum computing mean the sudden uselessness of Bitcoin as a currency?

I don't think practical quantum computing will "suddenly" exist.

Jaime Frontero

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Quote from: bitcoinBull on June 01, 2011, 04:15:59 PM

This entity would be able to recover all lost bitcoins!

oh my.

now that is interesting.

bitcoinBull

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rippleFanatic

Creighto says here that the ECDSA in bitcoin is modular enough to be swapped out.

I'm guessing the upgrade would be a version which uses post-quantum private keys, but is backwards-compatible with the current ECDSA private keys.

Bitcoins received with the new version would have a post-quantum wallet file. Any bitcoins not re-sent to a new address with the new version would be vulnerable to theft by a quantum computer.

Therefore, the first entity with access to a quantum computer could steal any coins which have not been re-sent.

This entity would be able to recover all lost bitcoins!

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