Topic: What happened to Bitcoins being anonymous? - page 2. (Read 4736 times)

All of this will improve the Bitcoin Economy as a whole.

Dammit, now I'm going to have to get behind like 8 proxies, send my bitcoins to various exchanges, then send them back to new offline wallets in weird amounts.

thallium,
This is interesting, I've been doing something similar with building a few tables of forum users and their IP addresses, as well as a blockchain watcher, but you seemed to fix an accuracy issue I was having with yours. I'd definitely be interested in the final product when you are done with it, if you eventually do open source or donations or sell it, PM me.

I am not quite yet ready to open it up to active development, though my timeline is about 2 weeks from today.  I'm writing this visualization tool with the hopes that this method becomes less effective by educating people how important good bitcoin practices are (if you want to remain anonymous).  Remember, just because block chain analysis can't explicitly identify you, they can still implicitly identify you based upon who is sending you money and where you are sending money to...

Did you ever play SatoshiDice?
I was just thinking right now that SatoshiDice is the biggest address de-anonymizer that exists today
And ErebusBat just posted about it right when I was writing this post lol

True.... this is all a very good example of how BTC are not private....

Also had he wanted to it would be very easy to see the following things with the knowledge posted above:

• I occasionally play SatoshiDICE (and obviously HOW I bet and in what amounts)
• I always use the same address, which would indicate a certain level of organization
• The amount of money that has moved through those wallets

All because I put an address in my signature because someone might send me some satoshi's (ya right).

Which is one reason I often employ single use addresses, keep some "daily cash" in shared wallets and ensure large tx are private.

Confirmed... those are all mine.

I would love to sub to that script... anywhere I can follow the dev process?  What language/platform?

So, what can you tell me about myself? lol
Now you got me curious
I can tell you from the start that I make no effort on hiding anything, so you can probably find a lot.

It's a script and a visualization tool I am developing for the community.  I hope for it to be ready soon.  ErebusBat, I know with 100% certainty that you own the addresses:

==> | Node[16381401]{addr->"14rsxwZHGV2F2x1fEoVZe7Lji3eTJUrXta"} |
==> | Node[16382476]{addr->"15mCE5te79DG1uonzvN2ghkmw1zgummcDy"} |
==> | Node[16227737]{addr->"18qPnt1ajzP143znAScMmAcV4mLgxBoUt6"} |
==> | Node[16227736]{addr->"1JqpTwfcGSGzgLyeTfWfsmVVo8D7XYmvdX"} |

I also know, just for an example, that you have sent money to the user 'evoorhees' here on the forums for .06814 BTC...

Did you do that by hand thallium205, or do you have a script?

It's not anonymous per se.  For example, Steve's donation signature has an address of '1NHDsGvmck79CmFj6e9bbJJZwvhWLhWwZQ'.  Using a little block chain magic, I can determine with 100% certainty that he also own these addresses:


==> | Node[16314325]{addr->"1BV8qQYTJVLKRCyvbDTk6X6AbVMoSwnENh"} |         
==> | Node[16314326]{addr->"125fL82nEWh3xX4bdtdYDFnzowkkNeWnoz"} |         
==> | Node[16470059]{addr->"1LBwwXxNwSVjAyGFdhAUzYxT2uHhr4ceu2"} |         
==> | Node[14261789]{addr->"16Mn9nWP9viaZhYBer6sBd7PbbtGNHcS91"} |         
==> | Node[14261790]{addr->"16UDn6MVbvPha9uCrUi6yfnsudxV2RgAgT"} |         
==> | Node[14261791]{addr->"1Mfdr9bBq8YNY82f5mGFNeqrrXjTBbkD37"} |         
==> | Node[14261792]{addr->"1FDcpBmipLnyMB928vSgh89fXUGz76jF7R"} |         
==> | Node[14261793]{addr->"1CU4teFSuWCW5c8JY2igRnXD1YG4ebVJ2w"} |         
==> | Node[14261794]{addr->"1J6WDvfAkZz37Ak1o5oRk9MKV42BysK4Fs"} |         
==> | Node[16108448]{addr->"1JnqCsVmR8eEgJow1Z1LqqSH3k8a5ZvrZ5"} |         
==> | Node[16108449]{addr->"19ojhgvtLJ3aLte4a2acSDRaagVgLTfJAe"} |         
==> | Node[16108450]{addr->"1HRWqSXSvdJn5UgCEJtUt2crh4MAY9gr6u"} |         
==> | Node[16218413]{addr->"19LmbkQye9NFE3NENouEg8SgFiyvtJ9vEK"} |         
==> | Node[16218414]{addr->"13RcdGtpMzCQLhU3xjyb9XwMdCn3KrMeS6"} |         
==> | Node[16218666]{addr->"1CkJK56u62pYY9bohY7RAJ9s4RChmq3uD7"} |         
==> | Node[16251262]{addr->"1JGqL56sFTMSkAbLGokBFecDwQuREhnUmQ"} |         
==> | Node[16251263]{addr->"1CSW1wYc1KkJmDLe8Cu5giQcbRXW418BeM"} |         
==> | Node[16251264]{addr->"1572yYS1hPC2Fv5krkANe1yX2dMnU68oTg"} |         
==> | Node[16401709]{addr->"1PX9pWr1GG98H1VLACtFfbsdrEb4tpy9H2"} |         
==> | Node[16401710]{addr->"1KgFnZYYhWunAMZAQ5xwc5hRxo1phj67xX"} |         
==> | Node[16401711]{addr->"1FxfGLCdFuxqD1kpYfqjumB87JJ3VMJbys"} |         
==> | Node[16401712]{addr->"12r5unpyDfNxvagzf4SMY9WpB9ifJZUTkc"} |         
==> | Node[14615764]{addr->"1JHZEwEvjbuTRnEL9yyov36nR4QLCgDUKz"} |         
==> | Node[14615765]{addr->"159igsYa7TUT6ZSN2kWmJCzXuFeeaDdbr5"} |         
==> | Node[15590750]{addr->"1MZT5hxr1PR9rEz1A8ipNcWz6Zo8qrSjzz"} |         
==> | Node[16023442]{addr->"1KCqHttZPoXSn4UzxCbGrGgPjzM8FAEBeY"} |         
==> | Node[16201837]{addr->"1225dYuckw6oP4pf4SohNNpaxSfb8uDFSp"} |         
==> | Node[14012220]{addr->"1GUJr6iByL76Ac58dgxnbBqKYcC8S1pUCL"} |         
==> | Node[14012221]{addr->"1QHm11N3skvJhBF97v6PtiKWgHHiMr3RmQ"} |         
==> | Node[14817692]{addr->"19ZGzNPsy7U8rtse1a1ZYDtJcazZuHm5XN"} |         
==> | Node[16023443]{addr->"19SHntpvCZM5aS3Uz6at7J2pPz9jzt9z8r"} |         
==> | Node[16043745]{addr->"17wJwDvMX1MC8vRA8vVUgEYN9HNtEskanC"} |         
==> | Node[16195263]{addr->"1DFt6mtGTQ2nFJvCBD9FxEH7eX9rNr8MEu"} |         
==> | Node[16195621]{addr->"16LGPVY7xUXGizzPaQPBXESC3xyRCvw5V9"} |         
==> | Node[16215965]{addr->"1PFHZ1c98Tqkmjbh9VG2rNWMqXnpvUwqpj"} |         
==> | Node[16307369]{addr->"1Kd9vT1ZJnrxo6bzgdYyKr1AZuuzeve7xp"} |         
==> | Node[16314324]{addr->"15jWt3L9SunvcaSfjyMGK7Q4so3j9sBYxc"} |         
==> | Node[16470058]{addr->"1NDbmFSg9WRYkPAjvLKTLqV1sgezn3gQeC"} |         
==> | Node[16087117]{addr->"1Fp8fRPiM7fodUPnR47yzz6zjbDuqvvUD1"} |         
==> | Node[16119079]{addr->"1BS7QUxda7XRFJm6DtYoScrw4CemNNYVa4"} |         
==> | Node[16174244]{addr->"1EXZaTaDtmXBABffazwk2SpbNULPqtjP8v"} |         
==> | Node[16359608]{addr->"1PWAWQvy9jRzGH78xZEvAcNrbCSSe5zBLN"} |         
==> | Node[14261788]{addr->"1BYksRrw6Y4SkmogrQBfgGecC5nwKHiBTq"} |         
==> | Node[15679241]{addr->"15ZwXzFgUkvSYyJMLE4qN1zMizMp7hpQcp"} |         
==> | Node[16108447]{addr->"1LENL1n1kwvb5fJTzge19th3Vx1QYdSGRr"} |         
==> | Node[16218412]{addr->"1HFnCMV3qg9cdw5SkHf6rgENz8hyAnjvqs"} |         
==> | Node[16218665]{addr->"1E93EqXLePwhTmg6Fxt6q7w5m9Z9Yo7h9G"} |         
==> | Node[16251261]{addr->"1AUXTyDrUdzuvBHu6yocA8D9QKSxW394XK"} |         
==> | Node[16401708]{addr->"1N1sLS64gdrFB5cjhiwQESsPHewymxwMgj"} |         
==> | Node[14615763]{addr->"1FyJsdoQSVsRpB7NPncRYpHkYiGVHhpRMQ"} |         
==> | Node[15590748]{addr->"16CgA71eaLYrcFXfTvEM6dBMGTbXSLWc14"} |         
==> | Node[16023441]{addr->"1J65km9YNjNLnsPyZa2JBqz1JhpCQRHGbq"} |         
==> | Node[16063561]{addr->"17tNnccUe6mvHuKcdtBXBJg4d7rEacCqPA"} |         
==> | Node[16039878]{addr->"1PiY8UfrvYpbDdGB59C9rGuSbMJf2Y2Hqd"} |         
==> | Node[14012224]{addr->"1KgVyeqWhhGV7VxSqjERSQdgDgtfrWCM1q"} |         
==> | Node[13285966]{addr->"1DotYxP8o4nZh1HXnjXcpGS4QcBiqQm9Y1"} |         
==> | Node[13285968]{addr->"15c3gwjK8V3YL6BA5ncPv9kvCBkqEM5zZu"} |         
==> | Node[13285969]{addr->"15cA4x3bHhLnyropd2e8Tf8A8xZGoJFbho"} |         
==> | Node[13285970]{addr->"13e8tpLNnX2shejygcPg7iuARXV7gSXSh4"} |         
==> | Node[13285971]{addr->"1Eg5Ufn3YqJMZCgrPr5zGfR6NpposuH2zg"} |         
==> | Node[13285972]{addr->"1L37mh1NhWkZ2Rq9en9FySt4BR2rqyYpbh"} |         
==> | Node[13285973]{addr->"1KA7LYoU9NPk48GEhzzXKGe4z61muj2kog"} |         
==> | Node[13285975]{addr->"1NvMGEWJGwJeejnB1Q7miyGNuC3YaX9yVr"} |         
==> | Node[13285976]{addr->"13L3sEwsbURJBygJRkKRU1amS5kV632U6C"} |         
==> | Node[14012219]{addr->"1HD1jNU73XbQiSYi7maVs1B5YS3of4Ch4h"} |         
==> | Node[14615766]{addr->"16kYyQooH6DtyhXFHi6mfRkG6QThwuWNu2"} |         
==> | Node[15590749]{addr->"1BexTYjSticxisuZGK7vDPPLchVxLLtWjJ"} |         
==> | Node[14303250]{addr->"17PkQw3D4xfSbv3pTQhBgVJPecE9cictUP"} |         
==> | Node[13285974]{addr->"12KMgreLfdUK6j4DknttvYyXNGzaVqZDaJ"} |         
==> | Node[13194994]{addr->"1HPcsTRfJEqyVZjVVmJ44Tns13Qt5AcyJJ"} |         
==> | Node[13285967]{addr->"1GZYxqRfXRAW7qHUQqbdHeDiMqwFjNtvmg"} |         
==> | Node[13227793]{addr->"1JgyCHnqBZmHwAkRRnMRehdXYLZSTiT7MD"} |         
==> | Node[13285965]{addr->"1BbR3UpQdQTTnoRvKY7xM3WP7RYe41Z3Ua"} |         
==> | Node[13459529]{addr->"1Ku4P5DD26oEfKiFp4CFgzggsWzpHxRfDZ"} |         
==> | Node[14012223]{addr->"18vtqeD7nQAwZEQkCoutXWnn1nRr7VgsnM"} |         
==> | Node[13194385]{addr->"1K6fuhB78qoyXaQNypaGSnyvmGU5DXvyfC"} |         

There are many other things I can determine about our friend Steve here, but this is a simple example of the pseudo anonymity of Bitcoin.

That sounds like EXACTLY something the US would do.

I think they would name it bernanke-coin

1) There is no world govt.  So the US saying you need to do xyz has nothing to do with the rest of the world.  Miners in the rest of the world would still accept these "prohibited tx".  Merchants in the rest of the world would still value those coins.  Essentially the govt would be creating their own fork which is less valuable, more restrictive, and has higher costs with lower liquidity.  I am not exactly "worried" about that replacing Bitcoin.

2) How would the govt know?
An unconfirmed tx appears on the network.  Who is it to? Who is it from?

When we are facing a tyrannical single world govt with unlimited power, unchecked police authority power and suspension of all human right well you likely have a point.   Then again if we get there hopefully the "live-free " types have stocked up a lot of guns because the fork of Bitcoin known as "control coin" is likely the least of our problems.

You are missing the point.  What good is any of that when virtually no one accepts your anonymous transactions because they are compliant with a government that threatens their liberty or even life if they are non complaint.  It's not a technical issue.  Technically speaking, it's software and we can make it just about as anonymous as we want…or we can make it completely non anonymous.  As I said before, it's up to people to decide the level of privacy afforded to our financial transactions.  If we want financial transactions to be allowed to be private, then we must convince the majority of people to agree with that point of view and assert themselves when confronted by people or organizations that do not believe there should be any right to free and private financial transactions.

There are ways of covering your tracks a little.  You could sent coins through services like online shared wallets or gambling sites which are basically big shared wallets.  Ideally, you would split up your coins through many different services.  The only problem is that some of these services may require a user account, but few need to actually ID you, just make sure you are using a public internet connection (like at libraries or coffee shops) to access the sites.  So my point is that if you really, really wanted to cover your tracks, you could, it just takes forethought and some work.

No you can't.  You can indentify the first node you saw the tx but that could be the originator or a node which relayed for the originator or a 20 nodes from the originator.

There is no requirement to even use a traditional node.  You could hand sign a tx offline and put it into a "tx dropbox" which is located on a tor server in a foreign country.

For you to be able a certain transaction came from a certain IP address you'd need a node connected to ALL other nodes.
So far the only IP you know was the first one to relay it to you or to someone else, you can never be certain that IP was the one to send the transaction.
I send a lot of transactions and never saw my IP address connected to them in any way. Not that it would matter much as all I need is to restart my router to get a new one.

You can trace the IP address identified with the address being sent to.. and therefore narrow down on the location the person is at.

That's one problem I can clearly identify with this system.  Therefore it's not wise to deal with illegal things since I'm certain it's still possible for the feds to track you down via the blockchain.

It's anonymous but not at the same time.

How?

Someone sent coins from one unknown address to another unknown address and the tx originated from a known public relay in a foreign country.  What do they do?  Nothing.