Topic: What happened to keeping all my bitcoin in same address? Now I pay insane fees?! (Read 464 times)

I'm not even sure whether the account still belongs to same person. His old post (i checked from late 2013 to 2014) shows he has better technical knowledge.


Mining pool would reject such offer and optionally point to their paid acceleration service.

Your account was registered in 2012, and you still don't know how Bitcoin works?

Good luck striking a deal with a mining pool. Or just use LN, that comes close with a one-time on-chain transaction to send and receive many low fee off-chain transactions.

Quite interesting. I usually make transactions without having thought of the cost of lots of some mini transactions on my wallet. I dont know if its possible or can be possible for a wallet a monthly fee or yearly fee just like a one time payment that will cover the entire transaction fee cost for that period, i think it would be nice so that we wont pay fee for every transaction we do.

Ah yes.  I see what you mean now.  For example, here's one of those "clueless and clearly never used bitcoin in the early days" giving some of that crazy advice about protecting privacy by using new addresses all the way back in 2009. This guy is clearly "a complete moron anyway":


LOL. Clearly this dummy had no idea how Bitcoin works at all.

Obviously it's much better for me to take my advice from this Guessti guy who showed up complaining one day and refuses to learn anything new.

 

You seem to have many misconceptions about the way Bitcoin works. Plus there is too much anger and frustration against the network and the people trying to help you. In short, it's a recipe for disaster waiting to happen.

Let me try to address some of the things you said in your OP and other posts as I remember them.

The amount of fees you have to pay to get your transaction confirmed depends on the current congestion of the blockchain. It has nothing to do with the wallet you are using. There is no such thing as fees jumping up randomly for no reason. If you use a quality wallet, you decide how much you want to pay in transaction fees. But that's something you must learn, otherwise you won't be able to do it effectively. Overpaying and underpaying are issues if you don't know what you are doing. Always set your own fees based on the current network conditions and priority of confirmation.

Whether your bitcoin is in one address or spread across multiple ones doesn't matter in terms of transaction fees. Bitcoin works with inputs and outputs. Look at each coin you receive as a separate USD bill in your wallet. Whether it's in one wallet compartment or different ones doesn't matter. If you received one BTC transaction worth $100, you have one bank note. If you receive a second one, you have two, etc. When the time comes to spend those coins, you do it the same way you spend fiat money. You give your paper bill (your BTC UTXO) to the recipient. If there is change, the recipient will give you new bills or metal coins back. This is the equivalent of a new change address that you are confused with. Having the change go to your old address or a brand new one doesn't matter the next time you make a new transaction and need to pay fees. You again have a new UTXO that you need to spend the same way you previously did with your $100 bill (UTXO worth $100).

If you aren't using proper coin control, you might overpay on your transactions. Bitcoin's fees don't depend on how much the value is that you are sending. Meaning a $100,000 transaction isn't necessarily more expensive than a $100 one. It's about inputs, outputs, types of addresses, etc. Let me give you another example with fiat money. Imagine that you want to pay something worth $80. You have various bills in your wallet ranging from $10 to $100. You can pay for your transaction by giving your recipient a $100 bill and receiving change back. One paper bill here equals 1 UTXO. Or you can use 1x $50 bill, 1x $20 bill, and 1x $10 bill. You effectively used 3 UTXOs in the second transaction, which will significantly increase the network fees you must pay. It doesn't matter when you pay in fiat, but makes a lot of difference in Bitcoin. Proper coin control is, therefore, vital.   

The using a new address for each transaction system makes sense. Let me give you another example with our fiat system. If you have a bank account and I don't work for that bank, I have no idea how much money you have there. If you send me money from that bank account, I still don't know anything about your balance. This is where Bitcoin is different because it uses a public ledger. Everyone can check and verify the balances and transactions. If you use the same receiving address every time you receive bitcoin, I know exactly how much you have there. If I know your name, where you live, where you work, etc., I know even more about you. The moment you send me a transaction, I can enter your address into a block explorer and see how much money you have there. But not just me, any other person you ever transferred coins to. Is that what you want? Would you be comfortable sharing that you have $1000, $10,000, $1 million worth of BTC with the public? That's why you are supposed to use a new address for everything. All new recipients of coins from you don't have to know everything you did in the past and the amount of BTC you will be holding in the future either.

If you want to break the link and prevent people from tracking you via block explorers, there are ways to do that. In my signature you will see Sinbad. It's a bitcoin mixer that will cut the ties to your coins. You can also participate in coinjoins. You can exchange your coins to monero and then back to bitcoin, etc.

The fact that your wallet spends the coins it wants is your fault. Use proper coin control and it wont happen. When you are paying for groceries at the supermarket, you don't give the cashier your wallet to take the bills he/she wants. No, you do it yourself. So, use bitcoin the same way. Smart coin control.

One address or one hundred addresses makes no difference in how much fees you'll be paying as explained previously.       

EDIT:

Further proving these idiots wrong, anyone having the same issue as me can see TrustWallet actually removed using change wallets/addresses. I have tested it a few times now and can confirm - your bitcoin wallet address stays the same no matter what. (your bitcoins never get sent to a different address)

Transfering my funds from yet another wallet who was using change addresses, the fees were higher because multiple addresses had my bitcoins - simply from sending some bitcoin. (they get as high as $5-$10+ from ONE SINGLE TRANSACTION!!) Now I no longer have that problem.

It is very VERY simple unlike these morons are trying to make it - the more addresses your bitcoins get spreads to, the higher the fees will be if you ever send enough bitcoin that needs to use 2 or more of those addresses. If all your bitcoins stay in 1 address the fee stays the same no matter what the amount of bitcoin you are sending is! Your bitcoins still get spread around even if you receive them in the same address from everyone whenever you send some of your bitcoins out.

You can further confirm what I'm saying is true here:

https://community.trustwallet.com/t/removal-of-the-auto-change-address-feature/155623

Removal of the Auto-Change Address Feature
What is Auto-Change?
The Trust Wallet team has decided to remove Auto-Change address functionality from UTXO blockchains, namely:
Bitcoin (BTC)

Using TrustWallet is the solution to disabling this "privacy feature" back to how all Bitcoin wallets use to work. Thank you TrustWallet!!! 

For all you idiots who keep saying I'm wrong.

https://coinguides.org/bitcoin-change-address-output/

Literally don't need a change address.

Nothing I said is wrong.  

If you think that article is wrong then you are part of the problem not the solution.

Don't use change addresses and you will pay lower fees. Facts.

Who ever keeps trying to suggest you don't pay higher fees is spreading pure lies and propaganda. This "privacy" "feature" comes with a cost.

false. People who know quite a bit more about Bitcoin than you have tried to explain this to you, but you refuse to learn anything. You prefer to complain and to assume you know what you're talking about rather than learn how it works, and how best to accomplish what you claim you want.


again, false

The transaction fees depend on 3 things:

• The quantity of UTXO you spend in your transaction
• The type of addresses and transactions you use (P2PKH, P2SH, SegWit, etc)
• The quantity of new UTXO you create in your transaction
• The fee rate that you (or your wallet software) choose to pay per vByte

Projecting much? You certainly have been throughout this entire thread.


You did create a thread in the Bitcoin TECHNICAL SUPORT section of the forum. What did you expect?


I'm not sure when you think "the early days" were, but several of the responses you've received are from people that have been active in this forum for a decade. Thay know a lot more about the early days that you do.


Yes. You have been. I'm glad to hear you've finally realized it.


I've seen a lot of complaining, and I've seen a lot of made up nonsense, but I've seen very little in the way of actual facts from you so far.


Absolute nonsense.


Do they give you perfect privacy? No. Do they increase privacy as compared to not using them? Absolutely.


The fees have nothing to do with the change addresses. Get over it.

There are other causes for your higher fees, but you refuse to even try to understand.


Glad to hear it.  Was it something presented in this thread? Or did you come up with something new on your own?


I can walk you through every line of code if you like. I can explain every byte in the transaction and every byte in the blockchain. You might not like the explanations, but that doesn't make them wrong.


You're welcome to believe whatever nonsense you like. I can't force you to learn anything new.


Of course it is, but you're not interested in that fact, nor in understanding why.


Again with the 100% incorrect nonsense.

Nah its comments like these that urk me.

Talking WAYYYYY beyond the point.

Having more change addresses = gonna pay higher fees facts

Your bitcoins spread around more bitcoin addresses = gonna pay higher fees facts

Stay on topic instead of trying to sound smart, like holy crap people are so full of themselves.

Its like all you guys here really care about is talking about very technical crap that literally means the same but you wanna say it in another way or just bring other technical bs into the mix.

You guys are mostly clueless and clearly never used bitcoin in the early days.

Insulting.

Anyone that believe change addresses are increasing your privacy is a complete moron anyway. I can literally see where all my funds have been going to on the public block chain.

Stupid.

Keep spouting out random technical bs though that ends up meaning the same thing. (but not to guys like you wanting your own explanation to be the right one even though it means the same bs)

How about stay on topic and to the easy straight forward facts I BEEN saying?

- Change addresses end up costing you more in fees
- Change address do not increase privacy
- The fees for the perceived increase in privacy (where you just make things more difficult) NOT WORTH IT!!!!

If you think you need change addresses to increase your privacy and don't know you can do so without that non sense thats insane.

I found the solution anyway so now I don't have to deal with this problem anymore.

God I hate guys that all they wanna do is fight about super technical bs beyond the point.

You all are stupid, like for real will believe any stupid thing you are told.

None of you truely know how bitcoin works at all. Like not even close. You just try so hard to sound smart.

If you cannot explain it simply, you do not understand it enough. -einstein

I'll repeat this again:

ANYONE yup I'm calling a lot of people out here: ANYONE who thinks change addresses are helping your privacy on a public blockchain... AHAHHAHAH is wrong. 100%

Go ahead and spout your technical bs that you don't even understand your damn self.


Thats interesting stuff actually!

Of course its not needed if change addresses aren't used to begin with.

Which DOES indeed fix my high transaction fee issue.

No change addresses
No btc being spread accross more wallet addresses
=
Lower fees.

Facts.

Everything is good now though.

All my bitcoins have been staying on 1 single wallet address and now my fees are lowered thanks to NOT using change addresses ever.

Privacy? Let me worry about that, cause the change address bs didn't do anything for me to increase privacy. What a sick illusion.

I hope you guys enjoy paying higher fees for no reason. LOL!!!

Dude buy a few LTC and use them for smaller transactions
Or buy some Doge and use them for small moves.

BTC is not going to work for 100 usd moves as time goes on

It is clear that one of two things is happening here.  Before I waste any time adding my thoughts and response to the many thoughtful and educational posts already on this thread, can you please let us know which one it is.

1. You are very frustrated. You don't understand how Bitcoin actually works, and your frustration is causing you to lash out and ignore helpful advice. You've convinced yourself that you know what's wrong and you know how it can be fixed, and therefore you're unable to learn anything new about what's going on, why, and how you can best make use of it.

2. You're just a troll. You've come here making demands and stating "facts" that are demonstrably wrong. You are then intentionally ignoring or refuting any explanation or attempt to help so that you can continue to complain and try to stir up reactions.

Patiently awaiting your calm and courteous response (or additional trolling).

This famous quote comes to mind:

It is NOT!


You still don't seem to understand. It's not the number of addresses that matters; rather, it's the number of inputs and outputs in a transaction that affects the fees. Whether you combine 10 inputs from one address or multiple addresses into a single transaction, it doesn't change the overall fee calculation.


That's how it's always been.


Yes, you do that. No need to thank me.


Oh, sure! Insulting those who are genuinely trying to help you is a great strategy. Let's see how well that works out.

---

The point of my instructions is to answer OP's question, which you omitted from the quote, so I will repeat it here:

I didn't imply your instructions were incorrect; I just provided a simple solution for the OP's specific problem, which no one had suggested before.


That's true. At this point I'm not even sure if the OP is really that ignorant or just a troll.

Which means for 70 inputs and 1 output for legacy addresses, it has 10404 vbytes
For 70 inputs and 1 output for segwit version 0 addresses, it has 4802 vbytes
For 70 inputs and 1 output for segwit version 1 (P2TR) addresses, it has 4079 vbytes

The fee will be much lower for segwit addresses. Although, not still worth consolidating when mempool is very congested.

The (v)size of data added to a transaction for each input is usually much smaller.
Even if you add a legacy input to your transaction, it adds around 140 vbytes to transaction size. Each native segwit input adds around 68 vbytes and each nested input adds around 93 vbytes to transaction size.

Fixed that for you

Consolidating addresses every once in a while by sending yourself transactions from 5+ UTXOs in an address or a few, to another address will make one UTXO, will save you fees if you set the fee rate low enough like 5, 4 stats/vbyte and the mempool isn't jammed like it is now.

Right now an 8 sat/vbyte transaction is 51MB away from the tip, so now is not a good time to consolidate any UTXOs into one because extraordinary fees will be paid.

For example, if you have 70 UTXOs in total, then each utxo takes about 200 or so (v)bytes in the transaction, so 70 * 200 = at least 14000 sats transaction if not more.

That's at least $3.78 per satoshi per (v)byte added to the transaction fee.

That's not the point of the instructions.
It's to explain that even if what he want to do is doable, there wont be any difference when it comes with the number of UTXO that his wallet will receive even if the change is sent to the same address or a change address.

And for some reason, OP is fixated on the thought of disabling change address will fix his high transaction fee issue.
At this point, I wont add anything that's already been explained here.

Oh! You are still repeating the same thing.

Take note that any bitcoin transaction you make will have a change unless you spend your UTXO(s) completely.

Assume that you have a UTXO worth 0.03 BTC and you want to spend 0.02 BTC. Your transaction must have a change worth 0.01 BTC minus fee.
The change can be sent to the address you are sending the fund from or a new address. Whether you use the same address or a new address, it doesn't make any difference to the fee you have to pay for your transactions.

Bitcoin has been always like this.


All bitcoin transactions are recorded in the blockchain and they are all available to the public.
Can you please share a transaction that has been made in those old days and can prove we are wrong?

It IS correct.

When you send too much funds and its transfering from multiple wallet addresses because of change addresses caused from previous transfers.. Guess what? You end up paying HIGHER fees than if all the funds stayed in 1 wallet.

This is simple fact and the way bitcoin use to work by default in the early days.

I use to NEVER have to worry about my funds being moved around so much  that next thing I know if I go to transfer $300 or drain the whole wallet, its showing $7+ in fees simply because the funds are NOT all within 1 wallet address anymore - even though I always had funds sent to 1 wallet address only!


We could argue just to argue, that doesn't solve this problem.

We could point out many "technicals" of life but that doesn't help anything. Just makes you look like a troll.


I will try it out and see if it actually works where my funds always stay within 1 wallet/address.

Right now going through the pain yet again of transfering all funds from one wallet to another, and now the funds were spread across multiple wallets (change addresses) so the fees are much higher than if it was just 1.

Its crazy how people don't remember the old days of bitcoin anymore, but they are quick to point out trivial technical bs that literally helps nothing and goes beyond the point.

Then people have the nerve to really say the fees are just higher when I send more bitcoin, NO its because the more change address your bitcoins were spread across the higher fees your gonna pay getting them all sent where you want vs them simply being in 1 address.

It was never suppose to cost more in fees just cause you send more bitcoin, if 1 million dollars in btc is sitting in one single address, then you pay the same fee as some other wallet with a penny in it.

Unless your million of dollars is spread in a bunch of change address bs now the fees start stacking. Madness!

All for this to not even truely improve privacy, every transaction I still can see on the blockchain. I see all my "changeaddresses" and where my funds went, its just messier, harder to track is all.

Worth paying 2-4x more in fees all the time? Hellllll no. What you a terrorist or something like wtf.