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Topic: What happens when the US Government liquidates 144,000 BTC? - page 2. (Read 3417 times)

full member
Activity: 120
Merit: 100
By my understanding of the law. the "FBI" can not sell them until DPR is convicted, as if he is proved innocent, they may have to give them back (although i think this is VERY unlikely to happen).
no, legally they dont have to do a criminal forfeiture. they can file for forfeiture civilly without conviction. but that is unlikely to happen.
Dont you just love the law  Embarrassed
whatever happened to innocent UNTIL proven guilty...... Cry
hence the constant outcry from civil libertarians about asset forfeiture laws. they are unconstitutional and unethical.
<< fully agree. I;m in the UK and we dont have a "constitution" as such, but things are very similar here too!
(i was recently in court for not paying "council tax" (everyone here has to pay this if they live in a house, unless you are on a low income). when i offered a full & prepared defence i was quickly told "you must be mistaken, as you are not entitled to a defence"... needless to say, i was found guilty....  )
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
By my understanding of the law. the "FBI" can not sell them until DPR is convicted, as if he is proved innocent, they may have to give them back (although i think this is VERY unlikely to happen).
no, legally they dont have to do a criminal forfeiture. they can file for forfeiture civilly without conviction. but that is unlikely to happen.
Dont you just love the law  Embarrassed
whatever happened to innocent UNTIL proven guilty...... Cry

Forfeiture is a separate action it has its own procedures and its own burden of proof.  There is no such thing as innocent until proven guilty that is just a quaint phrase to make people sleep good at night.  All you get is due process.  However as indicated for a variety of reasons forfeiture almost never happens until long after the criminal trial is complete.   

Also to correct your prior post, the coins don't belong to the FBI, they never did belong to the FBI, and they never will belong to the FBI.  Prior to forfeiture they belong to the original owner they are just frozen.  If the government loses their forfeiture case they return to the original owner, if the government wins the assets becomes the property of the US TREASURY.  The DOJ is mandated with selling off forfeited assets as the government simply wants the cash value not the asset.

This isn't anything new or novel.  Every year for the past century the DOJ has sold off billions and billions of dollars worth of forfeited assets.  Cars, boats, planes, real estate, luxury goods, stocks, bonds, gold, jewelry, etc.  Even rare fine art and antiques.  Just about anything you can imagine the DOJ has seized and sold it.

hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
Buy and sell bitcoins,
By my understanding of the law. the "FBI" can not sell them until DPR is convicted, as if he is proved innocent, they may have to give them back (although i think this is VERY unlikely to happen).
no, legally they dont have to do a criminal forfeiture. they can file for forfeiture civilly without conviction. but that is unlikely to happen.
Dont you just love the law  Embarrassed
whatever happened to innocent UNTIL proven guilty...... Cry
hence the constant outcry from civil libertarians about asset forfeiture laws. they are unconstitutional and unethical.
full member
Activity: 120
Merit: 100
By my understanding of the law. the "FBI" can not sell them until DPR is convicted, as if he is proved innocent, they may have to give them back (although i think this is VERY unlikely to happen).
no, legally they dont have to do a criminal forfeiture. they can file for forfeiture civilly without conviction. but that is unlikely to happen.
Dont you just love the law  Embarrassed
whatever happened to innocent UNTIL proven guilty...... Cry
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
Buy and sell bitcoins,
By my understanding of the law. the "FBI" can not sell them until DPR is convicted, as if he is proved innocent, they may have to give them back (although i think this is VERY unlikely to happen).
no, legally they dont have to do a criminal forfeiture. they can file for forfeiture civilly without conviction. but that is unlikely to happen.
full member
Activity: 120
Merit: 100
By my understanding of the law. the "FBI" can not sell them until DPR is convicted, as if he is proved innocent, they may have to give them back (although i think this is VERY unlikely to happen).

I would estimate it will take at least 2 years to put DPR on final trial and get sentencing finalised (or aquittal) and officially have the funds confiscated (as i think they are just "seized" at present, and held.... awaiting further investigation outcome).

2 years is a long time in "BitCoin World" and the price is likely to rise quiet a lot in that time, amongst other developments!
I know the FBI have said they will sell them off, but i think they may reconsider if the price increases and other countries "participate" to a greater scale.
Holding 144,000 BTC could put the US in a very good position financially and in "BitCoin World" and i think the "smart derision" would be for them to hold them.
In this time, i also think they are likely to confiscate more Coins.....

It will be interesting to see what they do with them! And good news if they do keep them (even though this wont be popular with BitCoiners)
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
Buy and sell bitcoins,
They can hold them, never release them.  BTC has an actual limit in quantity.  Having 144,000 of them is kind of like holding a hostage.

US Government does NOT like BTC remember.
maybe they don't, but they do like seizing money. the feds love FED bucks.
newbie
Activity: 31
Merit: 0
They won't sell them on the exchange.  It will be auctioned off like other forfeited property.  If you want to participate you will wire earnest money to the US treasury in advance.
I believe this is the correct answer. It won't do much to the exchange rate, I think, because the buyer(s) may not sell them on an exchange, either. Of course, I could be wrong about that.  Smiley
b!z
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1010
They can hold them, never release them.  BTC has an actual limit in quantity.  Having 144,000 of them is kind of like holding a hostage.

US Government does NOT like BTC remember.
Bitcoin is divisible. That will only increase the value of the remaining coins in circulation.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
lol at all the unaware here. government officials had to have bought bitcoins
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
their supercomputers are no match for your ASICs?
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1005
IMO, if any government gets involved, its going to lose every positive factor that bitcoin advocates appreciate.

It will just become another currency.

except that the government is unable to identify the identity of every bitcoin holder. oh, and they can just randomly generate new bitcoins out of thin air.

but not after 21M right?

the point is that dollars/euro's and any other currency is worthless because the fed/government can (and will) print unlimited amounts.

they can not do that with bitcoins. So the 144.000 bitcoins is all they will ever have, unless they BUY more, just like everyone else.

Or unless they use supercomputers to mine them, but their supercomputers are no match for our ASICs
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
IMO, if any government gets involved, its going to lose every positive factor that bitcoin advocates appreciate.

It will just become another currency.

except that the government is unable to identify the identity of every bitcoin holder. oh, and they can just randomly generate new bitcoins out of thin air.

but not after 21M right?

i don't know where you are getting at.. are you implying that government might start mining bitcoins?
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
IMO, if any government gets involved, its going to lose every positive factor that bitcoin advocates appreciate.

It will just become another currency.

except that the government is unable to identify the identity of every bitcoin holder. oh, and they can just randomly generate new bitcoins out of thin air.

but not after 21M right?
legendary
Activity: 944
Merit: 1026
As I recall, the news of 144K bitcoin going from the possession of a drug dealer to the US government made the price go up.   Grin
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
IMO, if any government gets involved, its going to lose every positive factor that bitcoin advocates appreciate.

It will just become another currency.

except that the government is unable to identify the identity of every bitcoin holder. oh, and they can just randomly generate new bitcoins out of thin air.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
IMO, if any government gets involved, its going to lose every positive factor that bitcoin advocates appreciate.

It will just become another currency.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
They can hold them, never release them.  BTC has an actual limit in quantity.  Having 144,000 of them is kind of like holding a hostage.

US Government does NOT like BTC remember.

huh? there hasn't been much indication that government is against BTC. and holding onto millions of dollars and doing nothing with it would be stupid. they might just auction the BTC to fund the FBI even more.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1005
It's their unofficial reserve currency for if when the dollar crashes.

It's just a matter of time before the other mayor economic powerhouses (china, japan, EU) and upcomming markets (India, Brasil, etc) buy lots of bitcoin as well as a reserve currency.

it's indeed a pretty large amount (~0.6% of the 21 million and about 1.2% right now) but i doubt they'll use it to crash the market, it will likely not have a long term impact if they'd try that, especially not when we notice it's theirs.

Just a couple of people will get very cheap bitcoins before the market will recover.
hero member
Activity: 503
Merit: 501

US Government does NOT like BTC remember.

That's not the impression I got after watching 6 hours of the CSPAN hearings on Bitcoin. Did you watch that? There's a link around here someplace...

Here is day 2:

http://t.co/0ek2nwimi5
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