Topic: What if Bitcoin Never increases in "Value"? - page 3. (Read 4627 times)

if you keep mining w your cpu it can't ever be dead

I think Id still keep it as long as it has value with it. As long as its not dead, I will keep my coins.

what if it does nothing?  bits and bytes worth money because we say it is?  and 4 billion dollars nonetheless. that means it is a complete success in my eyes.  

This is the truth.

I'm a bit stumped, as to the idiocy of the masses.

For example, in the nordic Country Denmark, in their capitol Copenhagen, a lot of people use bicycles, and in general this is a very bicycle-friendly city.

However, most people do not use bikes in this city because they're concerned about their environment, or because they're concerned about their own health, or because they want to save money. When surveyed most people simply reply that the reason they use bicycles is because that's the fastest and most convenient method to get from A to B.

While I understand that on a larger scale, I don't get it from an individual standpoint. So people are saying that if it was quicker by car, they would use a car, and fuck the environment and their own health and wallet? I know that's polarizing it, but still..

For bitcoin to become useful on a large scale, there must be built end user systems that are safe and convenient, which is not an easy task. And I guess for it to outperform other payment systems, it must be so convenient to use, that it's simply the easiest way to pay or sell anything.

And of course, the volatily issue is also a real issue for many people, whereas enthusiasts happily add twice the needed amount to their mobile wallet just to be sure, not everyone could afford that.

Personally, I think the privacy and freedom aspects of bitcoin far outweigh any usability issues, but as you say, the masses are just concerned with selling and buying, and that's it - and I think this is a bit sad.

Haha we're getting WAY off topic, but it may be good for the value of Bitcoin right!



Written in Python that's a strange choice for an open source project of such significance.

What I mean by democartic escrow:

2 of 3 multisig can stall if you're dealing with a vandal, someone can list an item they do not own, someone clicks "buy" and pays into multisig, seller says "you been scammed" and runs off, money is locked up in multisig. Vandal does not get money but he gets a kick out of shafting someone, because he's a dick!

So I think a real person third party escrow will be needed to step in when multisig fails, would be very annoying to lose coin to a punk.

The escrowers would also run supernodes, meaning if you wanted to sell an item on the system then you could simply list it up and then turn off your computer, just like ebay.

The supernodes would mantain the details of the ad with photos etc on their higher level DHT. Only the titles and prices would percolate through the entire network DHT.

The supernodes can only handle transactions <= X BTC, where X is proportional to trust that grows as they operate and handle escrow settlements.

Supernodes would take a tiny percentage of every transaction, MUCH less than ebay fees. Have free market decide these fees by allowing sellers to choose escrower based on trust/price etc. This way supernodes would be very much like miners, they will have to cover equipment, electricity and network costs and their physical time in handling stalled multisigs.

Its value will rise from a demand, since the amount is limited, the price will rise surely. It may never drop below 1k$ in the future, who knows.

Bitcoin is a tool: perfect p2p money.

We need an application that uses that tool in a p2p way. Riding centralised systems can only take us so far and they are vulnerable to adversity.


Boy you write alot, but yes I agree with you, bitcoin rocks and fuck the old sytstem!

Bitcoin was fully matured pretty much on its first release.


I admire your championing of Bitcoin, I like it too.

Again I think bitcoin is a tool: that being perfect money.

For the bitcoin economy to grow then there must exist an application in the spirit of bitcoin: decentralised.

Bitcoin needs to be passed on to the GUI designers, as you say the masses are thick, they need not be troubled by keys and hashes, they just want to sell/buy stuff.

I think OpenBazaar could be it, or I hope it would. It uses the Kademlia DHT (similar to BitTorrent's Mainline) to distribute the marketplace to its voluntary participants. Its escrow system is based on an 2 of 3 multisig wallet. (I'm not entirely sure what you mean about a "democratic escrow system", though)

The killer app is bitcoin itself. If you look at the growth it has had since the beginning, that's proof enough. The all time bitcoin transactions statistics is a good example of bitcoins uptake.

Growth does not happen overnight, so everyone has to be patient. Remember this was created out of nothing. Cryptocurrencies are completely new. Check out market share. Not sure if that's completely accurate, but if it is, I think being not too far off from Western Unions marketshare is not bad.

The killer app is bitcoin itself, and how do I explain that?

- You can send value to anyone with an internet connection without asking anyone for permission.
- That same value is transmitted without it being stopped forcefully by some party, that will 'investigate' the transaction, possibly reject it outright or reluctantly let it pass, after you've answered all kinds of elaborate questions and provided an awful lot of personal identifiable information. In addition information about your transaction is possibly relayed to a 3rd party which in all honesty has absolutely no business whatsoever peaking into your personal private financial transactions. If you have 1 BTC you want to send to your brother in Turkey, that's nobody's business except you and your brothers.
- The bitcoin address/account cannot easily be blocked by a 3rd party, which we see is  happening all over the globe every day of the week at a bankers whim these days.
- The transaction is fast, and with low fees.
- You do not have to leave your house to make a bitcoin transaction, you can do it from anywhere you have an internet connection, or even issue the transaction offline and then send it with traditional mail for someone to put it onto the network somewhere else.
- While the transaction is broadcasted on the blockchain which is open for everyone to have a look at, the only thing onlookers can see is the amount sent, and the addresses involved. I would think more analysis could be made as well, but it's not like a bank where if you send 20000 USD to someone, that's automatically added to databases of other government agencies. And there's also other projects in the works, that I haven't looked closely into, but take Darkcoin as an example.
- If you get stopped by the police, they can readily connect to any bank where you have an account and read your balance and any other information they might require. This is lack of personal freedom. With bitcoin you don't have to reveal anything. Just keep whatever balance you feel confident with on a normal banking account, and attach some credit card to it, so whenever asked, you just show your card with 3K USD on it or whatever. This so you don't arise any suspicion. The finances of an individual should be private. It's like your thoughts. Sometimes you have 'bad thoughts', and if those 'bad thoughts' were posted on twitter, or facebook or anywhere else under your full name, you would probably immediately receive a visit by some law enforcement officiers, because you're a 'threat'. Lots of the throughts you have in your mind at certain points are governed by emotions, if someone does something really bad towards you, for example some government officials which can basically do whatever the hell they want with you without any consequences whatsoever, it's only natural to have 'bad thoughts' reflecting the situation. In a future, governments might make it mandatory to wear a thought-collecting device, that would monitor and collect all of your thoughts, and once some 'unacceptable thoughts' were discovered, some robotpolice would immediately be dispatched to rectify the unwanted behaviour. Many people would approve such behaviour, as they'd gradually be accustomed to their privacy rights being invaded and eroded, bit by bit, part by part. The government want power and control, that's their main concern. So the people need to fight them every part of the way.

So just be patient, and let the services develop, and let's have the bitcoin economy mature.

You as an individual should be free. Free to think what you want, and free to do what you want, as long as you don't harm others. In today's society we no longer have freedom. If someone does not like you, and have the right powerful position, for example as the manager of your local bank where you have your mortgage loan, try pissing of your local mayor, which is his friend. The bank can come up with any excuse whatsoever to make life difficult for you. You could always fight it, but that could be taking so much of your life that it's not worth it. So as a consequence, most people just keep their head down low, and plug around in their daily lives, and they live in fear. What if I say that or this, will I loose my job, will I loose my house?

Even if you had some justified important discoveries you wanted revealed, you could still be punished. Truth and justice is not something that everyone subscribe to, some people rather just want to stay in power, at the cost of others.

If nobody can touch your financial assets, then you're more free. If you have 10K USD in bills in your house, and then you spend these for groceries, having the lawn moved or whatever, you spend your personal money without anyone else looking at what you spend the money for, whereas if you use a credit or debit card, there's a whole bunch of entities looking over your shoulder, collecting your expenditure patterns, and doing whatever actions they see fit. For example, if you purchase a pressure cooker to use with traditional cooking, you might as well get a visit from the FBI. Or if your purchase pattern match up with those deemed 'suspicious', you might receive a visit, or perhaps have the entire bank account frozen pending investigation.

The trust that people are putting in bank is really not worth a dime, on the press of a button, the bank can block you from accessing and spending your funds. This can be done because the bank thinks it's a good idea, or it could be because of political pressure, or pressure from law enforcement. And using a centralized payment system like a traditional bank represents, you never know when their services goes down and are unavailable. In addition, many people who's gotten in trouble with the law, has seen their bank accounts being confiscated, and thus being unable to pay for their defense. This is a concious strategy that's been levied upon the culprint.

In short, it's the tremendous flexibility and freedom that's the 'killer app' of bitcoin. People will start to see this gradually, and as more services spring to life and make it easier to spend bitcoins, more people will flock to it.

The people of a country is the most powerful entity, it's important to realize this. The millitary, the police, the politicians is not the most powerful entity. If people act in a group, they're the strongest force. Always. Fear, lack of knowledge and a passivity towards life is what often prevents the people to act.

Have a look at how hungarians stopped the internet tax.

In conclusion, bitcoin has come a long way, and it will continue to grow. The very fact that governments and banks are controlling our lives is very wrong. We're not free. We are slaves. This we must change.

Sure, there's perhapps no killer app built on bitcoin technology, like the spreadsheet was for the personal computer, that everyone needs to have immediately.

- Henry Ford

Many people are not educated, they know in reality nothing about how the world works. And our overlords, intend to keep it that way, by making it mandatory to have large loans that you need to spend the better part of your life to pay off, only to have a roof above your head. In addition keeping control of the financial system, means that the overlords have power over you as an individual. You are not a free man.

So the ones, complaining that there's no 'killer app' - it's right there - in front of your nose, and it's called Bitcoin.

That can't happen, price rises with adoption.

I wouldn't mind if its very stable and adoption goes through highs!

At the moment there's no killer app.

When's someone gonna code up a true P2P marketplace, silkroad without any servers using distributed hash tables and a democratic escrow system or do I have to do it my damned self!

Totally agree... anyone who says bitcoin is a ponzi scheme:

does not know what a Ponzi scheme is.
does not know what money is.
does not know what Bitcoin is.

If anyone's wondering how that ^ happened, bitcointalk takes and formats the text following it like an IRC message.

*THUMBS UP*

This cannot be said often enough:

- The value of a single Bitcoin is no indication of the value of the Bitcoin technology. If the USD/BTC rate is 1 or 1000, it does not really matter. What matters is the fact that you can use Bitcoins to purchase services and goods. And you could also use it to store value, with no 100% guarantees of course.

The fact that some people want their bitcoins to increase in value in relation to traditional fiat currencies, means they might be more concerned with their personal wealth, than contributing to the bitcoin system as a whole. This is not surprising, as human nature is largely egoistical.

Personally I think regression or standstill is preferred, as that keeps the noise down, once a lot of people starts to have dollars in their eyes, we get to experience a circus again.

My advice would be to stay patient, as traditional governments and financial institutions are gradually failing. Learn about bitcoin, and the implications it has for humanity, instead of only thinking of increasing of your personal wealth by buying bitcoins, doing nothing, and hoping they will increase in value, so you can cash them out in the failing dollar.

If you want to make bitcoin work for you, start offering something and get bitcoins in return.

Also, if/when BTC's price finally stabilizes, more people would actually use it more for day-to-day transactions, and those who are getting/going to be hit with "negative interest rates" at banks and countries with seriously mismanaged currencies (Zimbabwe, Argentina) will turn to Bitcoin as a store of value.

Overstock actually holds a portion of their BTC profits. (can't remember the actual % rate)

I don't really care if it doesn't rise in value. As long as it doesn't drop in value I'm good.
If it goes down to $1 then I'll be sad, but then happy as I can buy more than 1 btc.