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Topic: What if Bitcoin was a currency? (Read 2488 times)

legendary
Activity: 3024
Merit: 1640
lose: unfind ... loose: untight
June 02, 2014, 07:05:04 PM
#49
Got your own sewage treatment, water supply, food sources, electricity, road paver?  C'mon, get real.

Government is not the only entity capable of providing services. This idea that we somehow only became a civilization because of governments is truly a sad statement on how comfortable we have gotten under their ever growing boot.

Indeed. The 'food sources' is especially funny. Or it would be, would it not be for the worry that this is indeed where we're headed.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
June 02, 2014, 06:39:32 PM
#48
What would be the difference?  Tax laws?

No DEBT.
No INFLATION.

Got your own sewage treatment, water supply, food sources, electricity, road paver?  C'mon, get real.

Government is not the only entity capable of providing services. This idea that we somehow only became a civilization because of governments is truly a sad statement on how comfortable we have gotten under their ever growing boot.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1004
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
June 02, 2014, 06:39:06 PM
#47
Can someone explain to me HOW Bitcoin is property?


Please correct me if I'm be wrong, but I don't think Bitcoin is subject to property tax.

That would make sense since property tax is generally assessed locally.
full member
Activity: 206
Merit: 100
June 02, 2014, 06:31:23 PM
#46
Can someone explain to me HOW Bitcoin is property?

"Property" is treated as follows under US tax law:

When you buy it, you don't pay tax;
When you use it, you don't pay tax;
When you lose it, you don't pay tax;
When you sell (or exchange) it, you pay a tax based on its capital gain, which is defined as its value (in USD) when you sold it, minus its value (again, in USD) when you obtained it.

For tax purposes, BTC is pretty much like stock in a public company.

It's not like physical property, because it doesn't depreciate, and isn't used in business (like furniture or paper, for example).

Please correct me if I'm be wrong, but I don't think Bitcoin is subject to property tax.

I think the big difference between property and currency is when you use it to buy something. Since by US law it's property, you have to record its value (in USD) when you use it to purchase something, in order to correctly calculate capital gain. If it were currency, you wouldn't have to do this, but would wait until the end of your tax year and then figure out how much you have left and how much it's worth.

It seems to me that it's complicated either way, but there are many systems in place that can calculate your taxes when you deal with foreign currencies, so it would be much easier if BTC was in the same class. Usually, when tax entities (e.g. you) sell property such as inventory, real property, tangible property, or securities (e.g. stock), it is exchanged for USD, which makes the accounting fairly simply. If BTC is exchanged for something such as lunch, there isn't an easy way to put that in your books.
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 500
Nope..
June 02, 2014, 05:26:37 PM
#45
What would be the difference?  Tax laws?

No DEBT.
No INFLATION.

Got your own sewage treatment, water supply, food sources, electricity, road paver?  C'mon, get real.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1011
June 02, 2014, 05:09:44 PM
#44
What would be the difference?  Tax laws?

No DEBT.
No INFLATION.
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1105
June 02, 2014, 04:27:04 PM
#43
Lets all pitch in and buy a sovereign Island, declare its official currency as bitcoin.

Setup our own exchange there and a data center to host pools.

Think of the press that would get  Cheesy

Just need to find an Island now  Huh

Edit : Forget the Island, Bitcoin to the Moon ^^

It would be complete chaos without a proper government. The island's population would probably die off within a few months.... Tongue

Excuse me, but these days 'chaos' comes from the existence of "proper government". Free markets with very little Gov't (more libertarian than any current country) can do much better than what we see in the world today.

And that would attract criminals to the island, no thank you from me to live there.
dub
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1040
A Great Time to Start Something!
June 02, 2014, 02:50:21 PM
#42
Lets all pitch in and buy a sovereign Island, declare its official currency as bitcoin.

Setup our own exchange there and a data center to host pools.

Think of the press that would get  Cheesy

Just need to find an Island now  Huh

Edit : Forget the Island, Bitcoin to the Moon ^^

It would be complete chaos without a proper government. The island's population would probably die off within a few months.... Tongue

Excuse me, but these days 'chaos' comes from the existence of "proper government". Free markets with very little Gov't (more libertarian than any current country) can do much better than what we see in the world today.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1004
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
June 02, 2014, 01:27:23 PM
#41
Very little would change as far as taxes.

There are a few somewhat complicated tax laws regarding what rates you
pay on foreign exchange (forex) profits or losses, that would be then applied
To bitcoin profits or losses would it have been declared currency. (For example, the 60/40
rule which blends long term and short term capital gains rates.)

I'm guessing the main reason why bitcoin is declared as a property is simply that
the powers that be do not want to legitimize bitcoin
To the extent of officially calling it currency.

Also, had it been declared currency, it may have fallen under more stringent regulations
as far as who can set up an exchange or brokerage, so it is probably a good thing.
hero member
Activity: 601
Merit: 500
Vote 4fryn :)
June 02, 2014, 06:02:37 AM
#40
Lets all pitch in and buy a sovereign Island, declare its official currency as bitcoin.

Setup our own exchange there and a data center to host pools.

Think of the press that would get  Cheesy

Just need to find an Island now  Huh

Edit : Forget the Island, Bitcoin to the Moon ^^

It would be complete chaos without a proper government. The island's population would probably die off within a few months.... Tongue
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1000
June 02, 2014, 05:44:12 AM
#39
but even fiat currencies fluctuate.

Yep, even with all the political and economical power, and all the armies in the world, engaged at keeping their values stable. No wonder Bitcoin fluctuates Wink
True. Once it becomes currency, the price of BTC would be more stable and less fluctuate. People around the world are willing to buy and keep it.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1004
June 02, 2014, 05:30:44 AM
#38
Can someone explain to me HOW Bitcoin is property?



I dunno, probably property as in you own it; it's a thing.

That is exactly my point.
I own a lot of virtual products but they are not considered my "property", they are considered virtual products which I happened to have purchased and use(d) <-- And by law that is the only thing I am allowed to do with my legally purchased virtual products.
If there is ANY property rights involved it's intellectual property which belongs to the company that sold it to me.

And I am still confused about the "property" thing regarding Bitcoin.
They could have classified it as a virtual product and TAX it... but property??.....
Common......
I think BTC is special virtual product. The law makers just want to classify it under current law and can't claim it to be currency. So they can better regulate and tax it.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1004
June 02, 2014, 05:18:13 AM
#37
Bitcoin isn't stable enough to be a currency..Bitcoin is just a prototype, once a better coin comes out or maybe it's out already? will replace Bitcoin and render it useless. Now that new coin will be a currency.
OP means what if.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 504
June 02, 2014, 03:48:55 AM
#36
What if, a small nation with its own currency, let's say Solomon Islands, decided to forgo their own Solomon Islands dollar (SBD) as their currency and adopt Bitcoin as their reserve currency?  At this point, wouldn't every other UN nation have to appreciate Bitcoin as a currency and treat it as such?

The amount of money saved by some of the early adopters, in terms of capital gains, might be enough to actually go and buy the Solomon Islands to make this happen Smiley
global moderator
Activity: 3850
Merit: 2643
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
March 27, 2014, 08:28:00 AM
#35
Can someone explain to me HOW Bitcoin is property?



I dunno, probably property as in you own it; it's a thing.

That is exactly my point.
I own a lot of virtual products but they are not considered my "property", they are considered virtual products which I happened to have purchased and use(d) <-- And by law that is the only thing I am allowed to do with my legally purchased virtual products.
If there is ANY property rights involved it's intellectual property which belongs to the company that sold it to me.

And I am still confused about the "property" thing regarding Bitcoin.
They could have classified it as a virtual product and TAX it... but property??.....
Common......





I think the people who makes these laws don't adhere to logic.
hero member
Activity: 1582
Merit: 502
March 27, 2014, 08:02:18 AM
#34
Can someone explain to me HOW Bitcoin is property?



I dunno, probably property as in you own it; it's a thing.

That is exactly my point.
I own a lot of virtual products but they are not considered my "property", they are considered virtual products which I happened to have purchased and use(d) <-- And by law that is the only thing I am allowed to do with my legally purchased virtual products.
If there is ANY property rights involved it's intellectual property which belongs to the company that sold it to me.

And I am still confused about the "property" thing regarding Bitcoin.
They could have classified it as a virtual product and TAX it... but property??.....
Common......



full member
Activity: 205
Merit: 100
March 27, 2014, 07:58:48 AM
#33
Bitcoin isn't stable enough to be a currency..Bitcoin is just a prototype, once a better coin comes out or maybe it's out already? will replace Bitcoin and render it useless. Now that new coin will be a currency.

No need for that when you've already got banks/paypal and the dollar. As if the coin wouldn't be the same exact thing as logging online to your government-run bank/paypal...
global moderator
Activity: 3850
Merit: 2643
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
March 27, 2014, 07:53:10 AM
#32
Can someone explain to me HOW Bitcoin is property?



I dunno, probably property as in you own it; it's a thing.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 500
Time is on our side, yes it is!
March 27, 2014, 06:19:24 AM
#31
Bitcoin is a currency...
Don't let the Gov create your reality.

Well said , I have to admit my previous posts was subconsciously influenced by the "news" in this thread.  Thanks for pointing it out.   Wink
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1006
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
March 27, 2014, 05:39:37 AM
#30
Can someone explain to me HOW Bitcoin is property?
What kind of property? Intellectual?
Or like a house or a car? Which you can touch.
Because even if it is intellectual property it does NOT belong to anyone else other than it's creator, and that is Satoshi.
Am I wrong here?



The USA motto is "In God We Trust." Any other questions about what they believe is real?
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