Topic: What if Bitcoinica requires identification for all customers? - page 2. (Read 7090 times)

Short notice? The deadline hasn't even been set. For all we know it might not take effect for months to come, although I agree it will probably sooner than later. Still, we can't make a judgment before that is known, however. Besides, their choice is to become regulated up to a certain degree, which in turn requires them to require identification from their customers. You can't deny them that choice. All you can do is not do business with them anymore by withdrawing your money, which is exactly what is going to be possible.

The FUD here was introduced by bitcoinica when they started displaying an open threat.

"Myself" didn't say anything wrong, unless you equate "freezing your account" to keeping your money. I don't think bitcoinica will do that, but still, they will stop all your trading, which is "freezing" enough for me. Basically, they unilaterally change the ToS drastically and with very short notice. I think some complaining is warranted.

Why so negative? He just denied what you said. You're just spreading FUD...

We won't freeze accounts. Everyone will be able to withdraw regardless of verification status. You're safe to continue trading until we announce further details.

Wut? don't worry? so basically he just confirmed that ALL accounts will need to be verified or else they will have to withdraw everything.

Uh oh. I hope next time such a decision is taken he emails me, namely, this deadline.

Not going to stop me from using leverage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgzGwKwLmgM&ob=av3e

I'm glad this is happening; leverage has done a great deal of damage to our community and the markets, and this AML move will make some people think twice about playing with leverage

Don't worry guys. You won't suddenly lose your money nor will your money suddenly get stuck. They will announce a deadline later on for people who don't want to comply. They get withdraw their funds as usual. Here's a quote from Zhoutong which stated this:

+1

Zhoutong, this is not "gentle pressure" to make people verify their accounts. This is obnoxious pressure that leads to customer insatisfaction.

"Please verify your account to enable unlimited instant withdrawals" would still be okay. But the threat of other service restrictions without specifying what or when makes me worry about having any money in bitcoinica.

I dont' care, i never used bitcoinica.
Leverage is bad!

So for Bitcoin offshore is going to be Tor Hidden Service.

good point

The funny thing is that if you trade goods and services for your coins instead of going through the exchanges, it's still anonymous and there's really no way to effectively regulate it. Giving up exchange anonymity really doesn't give any more information than governments could already get, and doesn't give up one whit of information about your use of coins that you never had stashed away at Gox Mountain.

So again, I'd go a step beyond saying it's a necessary sacrifice, and describe it as more of a necessary inconvenience. That which was really anonymous yesterday will also be anonymous tomorrow.

I dont like it, I would rather remain anon, but bitcoin will NEVER get out of the under ground unless we accept some regulations at least on the edges. Neweggs and amazons.coms will never take the coin until it is acceptable to banks and unfortunately, governments. hey it is kinda fun as it is and there are some limited markets and all but it will never be mainstream without developing trust in the exchanges and online banks, which means following accepted regulations.

And just remember, it was never designed for anonymity, it was designed to not be centrally managed.  If it even becomes somewhat useful, governments will pounce.  And look what they did to online poker. The governments used the banks to pretty much shut them down for us customers. They would do the same to BTC until it accepted regulations, like these.


i'll play either way. Besides it is useful as an underground currency as it is, even if it wasnt designed as such(though they are working on some issues that make it more underground friendly). Still the community needs to decide which direction they want to go, head in the underground way, keep anonymity but be doomed to it staying nitchy or if it gets large be prepared to be under attack, or do we want to head the legit route and be prepared to give up some things like anonymity on the exchanges.

I was thinking along these lines as well. If Bitcoins aren't yet legally thought of as currency, and gold is a commodity, then a Pecunix/BTC exchange may not actually qualify as an MSB...

British Pounds, surely 

Or gold/silver oz.

i live in Europe and tell you EUR is not an option, ECB is pulling the strings

The US government does not do this to harass foreign citizens.  They do this to keep their citizen sharecropping slaves in line.  Americans, no matter where they live, or where their money has made money are required to pay taxes on everything.  If I am a US citizen and if I lived in Singapore and made over 100873.26 SGD (Singaporean Dollar), then I would have to pay taxes on part of that income.  Even if I did not live or go to the United States for years, I would still be required to pay taxes.  I would have to report any of my income in USD or other currency stored in bank accounts (over $8,000).  If I tried to change my citizenship and renounce my American citizenship the United States federal government could investigate me and decide, without due-process, to make me pay taxes to the United States for 10 years after I give up my citizenship.

The American dollar is backed by the sweat of the American sharecropper slaves (its citizens).  If those sharecropper slaves found a way to circumvent the Federal Reserve System and keep more of their fair share than the Federal Reserve masters allow them to keep then America financial empire would collapse.

Maybe a good idea is to not use USD as the quote currency anymore.

Just get yourself a safe in a Swiss bank and put your paper wallet in it. Fairly cheap (from 50 CHF per year)... No one can track that. Better than having an actual account in BTC since that could be affected by future data-exchange or taxation treaties / leaks / etc.

And yes, the US somehow believes it has jurisdiction over banks (and other entities) operating entirely outside of the USA, simply because it has US customers. A good example is Wegelin, being sued by the US despite having no branches or operations in the US itself.

Agreed 100%

Just as with cash, the existence of fully licenced operators within the Bitcoin economy is in no way at odds with the anonymous nature of Bitcoin itself. You don't want to have a government find out how much is in your MtGox or Bitcoinica accounts? Don't own one. Or own one with a nominal amount of BTC, and keep the rest of your stash in a flash drive buried in the backyard.

Unlike cash, Bitcoin will not, in the long term, lose its value simply by existing. No one will be forced to keep a bank account in BTC just to ensure they don't lose their money. That being said, if a Swiss bank offered me a way to keep my BTC with them, either now or in the future, I might just decide to keep some there... because old habits die hard