The superscript is kind of a disaster. Is it possible to have 1.23456789 ? That is a huge number. Like owing one dollar and being charged 23% over 456,000 years with compound interest. The balance you pay would be 1.23456789. I know commas are disliked by people for use as thousands separators but you could use spaces instead. It's all in your Windows control panel and it is also settable in Linux. I think it is an environment variable. As for internationalization, by default my Electrum fork pulls the preference from the locale preferences. That means:
The number 1000000.42312 is displayed as 1,000,000.423,12 in the default config for US Windows and 1.000.000,423.12 in Spain or 1 000 000.423 12 (which is an S.I. convention) if you set up your computer to display numbers this way. You may specify any character: Semicolons, at symbols or exclamation points. There is no superscripting character in Unicode, in spite of Unicode containing things like poker cards and a picture of a baby.
Download it at : https://github.com/shawnpringle/electrum
Shawn
Topic: What if I owned 1.234;567;89 BTC instead of 1.23456789 BTC? (Read 7214 times)
To be honest, I think that 3/4 d.p separators aren't needed. For BTC, you can use something such as 1.23456789 (if people mainly deal in cBTC) or 1.23456789 (if people mainly deal in mBTC in the future) for the wallet display. You have the main money (mBTC, think dollars) shown in full text, and the other chump change is in superscript (think cents).
I like the superscript. This is how inputs.io shows BTC (I mentioned this in a post above).
However, my reasoning with trying to find a symbol is to make it more universal. A semicolon is easily found on any keyboard and can be easily added in line to any number regardless of the whether it's plaintext or not, if superscript of subscript is available, etc. etc.
As for it being chump change, again, that is correct, but in some contexts the 10x difference between 0.00000002 and 0.0000002 could be huge (for example, a bet on Just Dice, or say if that's the payment per click for some service, etc.).
Now if those numbers are written as 0.000;000;02 and 0.000;000;2 the difference in magnitude is immediately obvious, no?
why choose 3 as a place for seperators....why not one after 4 places as in 1.2345,6789
much easier IMO although I prefer none
on that note ,realize that in usd , the value to make the last digit worth even a cent has to surpass
drumroll...1 mil !
a dime " 0.1 " " " " (at startup)
1 usd 0.01 (few tears ago)
10 usd 0.001 (recently)
100usd renders 0.0001 equal to one cent (currently)
1,000usd 0.00001 (possibly)
10,000usd 0.000001 not likely
100,000usd 0.0000001 dollar died by this time
1million usd 0.0000,0001 no contest- btc declared world currency
therefore anyone betting in the last four digits are joking around wasting time or expecting future winnings to be worth a few thousand dollars if the last scenario happens. betting at the fifth level and waiting for economic armegeddon might be worth it but most likley no one w food gives a rats ass about btc and people are knifing each other for that to happen!
btw is that an android v 20 you've got there (stab,stab!)
much easier IMO although I prefer none
on that note ,realize that in usd , the value to make the last digit worth even a cent has to surpass
drumroll...1 mil !
a dime " 0.1 " " " " (at startup)
1 usd 0.01 (few tears ago)
10 usd 0.001 (recently)
100usd renders 0.0001 equal to one cent (currently)
1,000usd 0.00001 (possibly)
10,000usd 0.000001 not likely
100,000usd 0.0000001 dollar died by this time
1million usd 0.0000,0001 no contest- btc declared world currency
therefore anyone betting in the last four digits are joking around wasting time or expecting future winnings to be worth a few thousand dollars if the last scenario happens. betting at the fifth level and waiting for economic armegeddon might be worth it but most likley no one w food gives a rats ass about btc and people are knifing each other for that to happen!
btw is that an android v 20 you've got there (stab,stab!)
Please note that my point here isn't that this is necessary because we're going to 1BTC=$1 million soon. Rather, my point is that we, as bitcoiners, are dealing with numbers with 8 decimal places on a regular basis now, for a variety of reasons. Perhaps there is no tradition for thousandths separators as there is for thousands separators because there simply hasn't been much of need for it till now.
I'll give you one example that I run into every day: betting on Just-Dice. Which is bet is larger? 0.0000120 or 0.00000875? I know you can count the zeros, but it wasn't obvious at first glance, was it? Now look at the column of bets on just dice. True, a bet of a couple hundred satoshi is just as insignificant in dollars as a bet of a few thousand satoshi, but one is 10x the other. If you're running a bot to martingale (for example), slipping up on one zero can make a world of difference.
This is the very reason we have thousands separators: it makes it easier to identify numbers with a quick glance (what's larger? 23402455945 or 6942382230? What if I asked like this: 23,402,455,945 or 6,942,382,230?)
why choose 3 as a place for seperators....why not one after 4 places as in 1.2345,6789
True, this is a possibility, and it makes a lot of sense since there's 8 digits to the right of the decimal in Bitcoin. However, my idea was to keep it consistent with most culture's customs when it comes to the thousands separator to the left of the decimal.
Having a currency with 8 decimals is fantastic, but it can and does lead to confusion. Couldn't we use the same concept we use to the left of the decimal point (i.e. $1,000,000.00) for the right side of the decimal point (i.e. BTC0.000,001 or 123.456,789 BTC)?
My questions are:
1) Do you think this is a good idea?
2) Is it possible to code in a simple way to display numbers like this? Or would it be a clusterfuck?
PS: If this has been addressed, or you think it's a very stupid idea, please be gentle. I couldn't find a discussion on this.
My questions are:
1) Do you think this is a good idea?
2) Is it possible to code in a simple way to display numbers like this? Or would it be a clusterfuck?
PS: If this has been addressed, or you think it's a very stupid idea, please be gentle. I couldn't find a discussion on this.
The code is available at https://github.com/shawnpringle/electrum . Checkout the d.ddd branch. As for not using commas you can change the thousands separator in the Windows' control panel. I think there may be a KDE control panel option for this. I set the thousands separator to a single space in MS Windows and all of the numbers had a space every three digits not just in Electrum but in other apps too. Are you a C++ dev?
Hey I'm flattered you'd think I'm a C++ dev, but I'm not. I'm not a dev/coder/programmer at all. Unfortunately.
As for what you wrote, it seems you are referring to thousands separator. I'm proposing coming up with a new standard for a thousandTHS separator. What do you think of that? How hard would it be to implement?
(Or, as theymos said, you can use subscript i.e 0.123456789 or 0.123456789. It's pretty much a matter of personal preference, inputs.io scripts the last 6 decimal places.)
yeah, chump change in superscript is a good idea..i think ill use that in the future
To be honest, I think that 3/4 d.p separators aren't needed. For BTC, you can use something such as 1.23456789 (if people mainly deal in cBTC) or 1.23456789 (if people mainly deal in mBTC in the future) for the wallet display. You have the main money (mBTC, think dollars) shown in full text, and the other chump change is in superscript (think cents).
why choose 3 as a place for seperators....why not one after 4 places as in 1.2345,6789
much easier IMO although I prefer none
on that note ,realize that in usd , the value to make the last digit worth even a cent has to surpass
drumroll...1 mil !
a dime " 0.1 " " " " (at startup)
1 usd 0.01 (few tears ago)
10 usd 0.001 (recently)
100usd renders 0.0001 equal to one cent (currently)
1,000usd 0.00001 (possibly)
10,000usd 0.000001 not likely
100,000usd 0.0000001 dollar died by this time
1million usd 0.0000,0001 no contest- btc declared world currency
therefore anyone betting in the last four digits are joking around wasting time or expecting future winnings to be worth a few thousand dollars if the last scenario happens. betting at the fifth level and waiting for economic armegeddon might be worth it but most likley no one w food gives a rats ass about btc and people are knifing each other for that to happen!
btw is that an android v 20 you've got there (stab,stab!)
much easier IMO although I prefer none
on that note ,realize that in usd , the value to make the last digit worth even a cent has to surpass
drumroll...1 mil !
a dime " 0.1 " " " " (at startup)
1 usd 0.01 (few tears ago)
10 usd 0.001 (recently)
100usd renders 0.0001 equal to one cent (currently)
1,000usd 0.00001 (possibly)
10,000usd 0.000001 not likely
100,000usd 0.0000001 dollar died by this time
1million usd 0.0000,0001 no contest- btc declared world currency
therefore anyone betting in the last four digits are joking around wasting time or expecting future winnings to be worth a few thousand dollars if the last scenario happens. betting at the fifth level and waiting for economic armegeddon might be worth it but most likley no one w food gives a rats ass about btc and people are knifing each other for that to happen!
btw is that an android v 20 you've got there (stab,stab!)
How about trying something new like....
1.234,,567,,89
Or
1.234;456;78
Display as Bitcoin Satoshis
BS12,345,678
Although BS might make too many of us giggle so...
SB12,345,678
1.234,,567,,89
Or
1.234;456;78
Display as Bitcoin Satoshis
BS12,345,678
Although BS might make too many of us giggle so...
SB12,345,678
Or just 12,346,678 sat. That's the same abbreviation that Dragon's Tale uses, and to be honest it's a pretty decent abbreviation which looks pretty nice.
Having a currency with 8 decimals is fantastic, but it can and does lead to confusion. Couldn't we use the same concept we use to the left of the decimal point (i.e. $1,000,000.00) for the right side of the decimal point (i.e. BTC0.000,001 or 123.456,789 BTC)?
My questions are:
1) Do you think this is a good idea?
2) Is it possible to code in a simple way to display numbers like this? Or would it be a clusterfuck?
PS: If this has been addressed, or you think it's a very stupid idea, please be gentle. I couldn't find a discussion on this.
My questions are:
1) Do you think this is a good idea?
2) Is it possible to code in a simple way to display numbers like this? Or would it be a clusterfuck?
PS: If this has been addressed, or you think it's a very stupid idea, please be gentle. I couldn't find a discussion on this.
The code is available at https://github.com/shawnpringle/electrum . Checkout the d.ddd branch. As for not using commas you can change the thousands separator in the Windows' control panel. I think there may be a KDE control panel option for this. I set the thousands separator to a single space in MS Windows and all of the numbers had a space every three digits not just in Electrum but in other apps too. Are you a C++ dev?
For instance "one bitcoin and two thousand, three hundred and forty five 10,000ths of a bitcoin" using the convention you suggest:
a Spaniard would write: 1,234.5
an English person would write: 1.234,5
a Spaniard would write: 1,234.5
an English person would write: 1.234,5
That may well be correct but I've never seen anyone ever do that (speaking as a Brit and someone who studied maths to the age of 18).
It looks very strange to me to use a comma after having used a point. I would simply write 1.2345
I don't like using SI prefixes with the Bitcoin unit -- they don't work naturally with Bitcoin's 8 decimals of precision. How about 1.23456789? Read as: "One bitcoin, 2345 bitgrains (or whatever), 6789 satoshi."
It'd also be OK to use SI prefixes with the satoshi unit. So 1 BTC would be equal to 100 Msat.
It'd also be OK to use SI prefixes with the satoshi unit. So 1 BTC would be equal to 100 Msat.
do you guys think it is time to move the decimal back 1?
I say thats a very good idea, the best option would be to use semi colons instead of extra points as peopl could mistake that for commas.
Thanks marcotheminer!
I say thats a very good idea, the best option would be to use semi colons instead of extra points as peopl could mistake that for commas.
I've seen people call satoshis as sats. And thousands of satoshis as ksats. But I've only seen it on one dice site chat room. "Hey, I bet 65ksats and won 130ksats!"
I think that's a good way to communicate if you are already speaking in the context of satoshi. I like it.
would displaying the groups of digits in slightly different shades help and be less confusing than symbols? e.g. black and dark grey in groups of 3?
What about a display that automatically chooses BTC, mBTC, µBTC with lowest non-zero value left of the decimal separator ?
I think these are both great options if you are creating a website or something like that. Kinda like how inputs.io makes all figures after two decimal places super script, like this:
1.2345678
Another option would be spaces.
However, I still think a sort of universally applicable system would be useful and needed, and the more I think about it, the more I like using a semicolon ";". I think it's elegant, it's unambiguous in both decimal-period and decimal-comma contexts. I think it makes sense as it uses two symbols that are already in use (a , and a .).
I dunno, I like it. It's growing on me. My original idea of using comma (, or period .) delimiters to the right of the decimal place (. or , respectively), was deeply flawed, as was pointed out by jim618:
For instance "one bitcoin and two thousand, three hundred and forty five 10,000ths of a bitcoin" using the convention you suggest:
a Spaniard would write: 1,234.5
an English person would write: 1.234,5
Compare to the figures above and you can see the prospect for confusion.
a Spaniard would write: 1,234.5
an English person would write: 1.234,5
Compare to the figures above and you can see the prospect for confusion.
Which is why I changed the title of the post to "What if I owned 1.234;567;89 BTC instead of 1.23456789 BTC?" instead of "What if I owned 1.234,567,89 BTC instead of 1.23456789 BTC?"
Thoughts?
What about a display that automatically chooses BTC, mBTC, µBTC with lowest non-zero value left of the decimal separator ?
I've seen people call satoshis as sats. And thousands of satoshis as ksats. But I've only seen it on one dice site chat room. "Hey, I bet 65ksats and won 130ksats!"
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