Topic: What if they tried it (Read 685 times)

Quote from: ilovealtcoins on June 11, 2023, 03:21:49 AM

What if the governments across the world attempted to seize all of your crypto assets like the US seized all gold from their citizens in the 1900s. Now I'm seeing articles talking about how the US government is trying to be able claim private property.

I think that ultimately this would be very challenging for any government to successfully accomplish. This would cause a revolutionary period again in our world I imagine....

That can happen with gold with fiat because they're all centralized and tangible, but with bitcoin, it's virtual and invisible. How can they take it from us if we keep everything private? That is one of the great advantages of bitcoin that not even gold has. Bitcoin values privacy and anonymity, so when using it, we need to focus on the benefits it brings us. In case, even if we get caught, the government has no way of getting our bitcoins.

They really can't see you if you are just quiet on it. Like a few years ago, our government said that crypto is subject to tax, which was trending in social media, but those people still haven't declared that they own crypto so that they won't be paying tax. The problem with tax is that they are getting a percentage or sometimes a fixed amount on your crypto, which is not good because you can't always earn on it. In other words, you are paying monthly taxes on crypto but you aren't gaining profit. That is why others kept it secret.

This sounds strange to me, how can we pay taxes while our investment is losing? As far as I know, the government will only tax those who generate income from cryptocurrencies, and I have not heard that long-term holdings will also be taxed every month. If that's true, then that's the ridiculous thing the government is doing. I will never pay taxes, even if I make a profit on my investment.

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Quote from: ilovealtcoins on June 11, 2023, 03:21:49 AM

What if the governments across the world attempted to seize all of your crypto assets like the US seized all gold from their citizens in the 1900s. Now I'm seeing articles talking about how the US government is trying to be able claim private property.

I think that ultimately this would be very challenging for any government to successfully accomplish. This would cause a revolutionary period again in our world I imagine....

That can happen with gold with fiat because they're all centralized and tangible, but with bitcoin, it's virtual and invisible. How can they take it from us if we keep everything private? That is one of the great advantages of bitcoin that not even gold has. Bitcoin values privacy and anonymity, so when using it, we need to focus on the benefits it brings us. In case, even if we get caught, the government has no way of getting our bitcoins.

They really can't see you if you are just quiet on it. Like a few years ago, our government said that crypto is subject to tax, which was trending in social media, but those people still haven't declared that they own crypto so that they won't be paying tax. The problem with tax is that they are getting a percentage or sometimes a fixed amount on your crypto, which is not good because you can't always earn on it. In other words, you are paying monthly taxes on crypto but you aren't gaining profit. That is why others kept it secret.

CageMabok

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That can happen with gold with fiat because they're all centralized and tangible, but with bitcoin, it's virtual and invisible. How can they take it from us if we keep everything private? That is one of the great advantages of bitcoin that not even gold has. Bitcoin values privacy and anonymity, so when using it, we need to focus on the benefits it brings us. In case, even if we get caught, the government has no way of getting our bitcoins.

It is possible to hide the Bitcoin assets that we have from the government, but at this time the government has also used people who are smart in tracking Bitcoin assets where these people certainly understand how Bitcoin is and also the wallet used to store Bitcoin. I also really appreciate your opinion on this matter because it is a fact that is real and can be found in the current environment.

So that in addition to the benefits that can be felt by Bitcoin users in terms of keeping Bitcoin in secret, Bitcoin users will also get greater benefits if they live in a country that has legalized Bitcoin and have never questioned Bitcoin users for anything. I imagine it would be very happy if in the country we live in, all shops and restaurants would accept Bitcoin as payment.

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Quote from: ilovealtcoins on June 11, 2023, 03:21:49 AM

What if the governments across the world attempted to seize all of your crypto assets like the US seized all gold from their citizens in the 1900s. Now I'm seeing articles talking about how the US government is trying to be able claim private property.

I think that ultimately this would be very challenging for any government to successfully accomplish. This would cause a revolutionary period again in our world I imagine....

That can happen with gold with fiat because they're all centralized and tangible, but with bitcoin, it's virtual and invisible. How can they take it from us if we keep everything private? That is one of the great advantages of bitcoin that not even gold has. Bitcoin values privacy and anonymity, so when using it, we need to focus on the benefits it brings us. In case, even if we get caught, the government has no way of getting our bitcoins.

Yes, that was the case in my country, as the government sees the people earning money without paying taxes that's the time they tried to seize and control crypto. But of course, they failed because crypto was made to be decentralized where you are the one in control of your assets. They can't even have track of anyone's funds since they are anonymous so it would be a lot of work for them. If you work in a government about economics, for sure crypto wasn't part of your job so in short it would just complicate the system if they try to control something they can't. Only thing they can do about this issues is to ban the crypto itself to the country but were unstoppable we always make solution to problems.

SOKO-DEKE

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What if the governments across the world attempted to seize all of your crypto assets like the US seized all gold from their citizens in the 1900s. Now I'm seeing articles talking about how the US government is trying to be able claim private property.

I think that ultimately this would be very challenging for any government to successfully accomplish. This would cause a revolutionary period again in our world I imagine....

Governments won't be able to take crypto assets from every citizen, in my opinion. Governments' sole option is to outright outlaw cryptocurrency in their nations, but even that will make it more difficult for them to seize cryptocurrency holdings from any individual citizen. I don't believe there is any other way for governments to seize a large number of people's crypto assets without their surrender. The only way I can think of is through exchanges, such as when exchanges have a problem with them and decide to shut down completely, which will not be simple to do.but Once your coins are in non-custodial wallets, I don't think there is no way for any government to seize your coins.

If it is possible for government to seize crypto assets like physical properties, many governments should have try that because many of them are enemies of crypto and they don't want its existence again because they know they cannot do anything to control it.

ilovealtcoins

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What if the governments across the world attempted to seize all of your crypto assets like the US seized all gold from their citizens in the 1900s. Now I'm seeing articles talking about how the US government is trying to be able claim private property.

I think that ultimately this would be very challenging for any government to successfully accomplish. This would cause a revolutionary period again in our world I imagine....

That can happen with gold with fiat because they're all centralized and tangible, but with bitcoin, it's virtual and invisible. How can they take it from us if we keep everything private? That is one of the great advantages of bitcoin that not even gold has. Bitcoin values privacy and anonymity, so when using it, we need to focus on the benefits it brings us. In case, even if we get caught, the government has no way of getting our bitcoins.

Mauser

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What if the governments across the world attempted to seize all of your crypto assets like the US seized all gold from their citizens in the 1900s. Now I'm seeing articles talking about how the US government is trying to be able claim private property.

I think that ultimately this would be very challenging for any government to successfully accomplish. This would cause a revolutionary period again in our world I imagine....

In a democracy this can't really happen. If any political party would consider taking away large sums of private money, there would be a huge public outcry and the politicians wouldn't be in power for long. Who would vote for a party that wants to steal your money? And even if the presidents finds a legal loophole to push it through, there would just come to opposition and bring it all back. You can't have policies that affect the majority of a country negatively. In a communist or dictatorship country this might be different, the politicians in power can choose freely and don't worry about what the average person thinks. But even in such a situation the question remains, how will the government manage to get access to all the private wallets. Just by demanding the people to give up their crypto coins, doesn't mean that everybody will so. I would expect for most people to not give up their coins and instead hide them from the government.

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Quote from: Minecache on June 09, 2023, 06:15:20 AM

What if the governments across the world attempted to seize all of your crypto assets like the US seized all gold from their citizens in the 1900s. Now I'm seeing articles talking about how the US government is trying to be able claim private property.

I think that ultimately this would be very challenging for any government to successfully accomplish. This would cause a revolutionary period again in our world I imagine....

How would they know if you have crypto, if you wouldn't declare it?
Or even if they know that you do have, how would they know if it is all that you got you could just surrender a small portion of it by dividing it to your other wallet and clean it through mixer.
So government that would do such thing would only waste their time.

Obari

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Quote from: Obari on June 08, 2023, 11:32:07 AM

Quote from: Minecache on June 08, 2023, 08:53:00 AM

Quote from: jostorres on June 09, 2023, 04:55:30 AM

Only a foolish country will never do the adoption.

Well I don't know how to say this but I guess you're Invariably calling my country foolish 🤣🤣
Please pardon my emojies but I couldn't help it since it best describe how I feel writing on this because my country and its government has been one of the greatest fighters of cryptocurrencies and bitcoin and mkat times it seems the government are so scared of the youth advancement and as such they are scared of making free any opportunities that seems to make the youths of its country independent and I believe you already know that's a typical foolish act.

I'm not trying to paint my country wrong but the truth must be told with hopes of a better country but for now, my government has been strongly against cryptocurrency.

If he says countries that don't adopt bitcoin are stupid. Not only your country but almost all the countries of the world are stupid because there are very few countries that accept bitcoin as adoption, only a few accept it. China is a good example of banning bitcoin, and I don't think they are a stupid country because they are the 2nd largest economy in the world. But the government is not afraid of the advancement of technology or the youth, what they do not want is that progress is not out of their control. They always want to control everything to ensure their power is not affected or lost.

They are not stupid; they are just scared of things that they can control more over, like money, and we know that the government wants to earn more money, like taxes. The more you earn, the more you pay taxes. Even the poor ones are still paying taxes from their salaries, which I know is for the development of the country, but again, there are a ton of corrupt officials that are just getting your money. Bitcoin is that they can't control it and can't easily track who holds huge amounts of it. That is why they banned it for now so that they could find a way to track those people and be able to tax you as well.

I love your point of view and thank you for bringing up the issue with tax because I don't know why most times I feel my country is always the case study with most criminal and corrupt cases because we're even taxed on a regular phone call and I still wonder how government helps its citizens 🙄
I stand corrected but I've heard of stories and news of America paying its citizens depending on the category they fall and I have no issues with such citizens been taxed not a country like mine where we have to do everything by ourselves and still been taxed by the government and I agree that the government is scared that its citizens might gain freedom if bitcoin is been accepted.

I know many governments are blatantly corrupt and don't care about the people. But using bitcoin to evade taxes is also not a good idea. If we do that, we are using bitcoin against the law, and that is a bad reputation for bitcoin. Moreover, it is not true to say the government does not help us, your job and your safety... are taken care of by the government. They play an extremely important role in creating the society in which we live and exist. We can't completely deny their role, but they are really too greedy.

Well I get your point and I don't know if you're from my country or you ever lived in here and please don't get me wrong by thinking I'm trying to paint my country red but the truth remains that the government of my country doesn't have any direct positive impact on its citizens because I see no reason a civil servant will serve a country for over 10 years and above and battle with pension and gratuity and have no empathy for its citizens.

My country is a messed up country and there is no way I should be singing praises of it when it is already messing up.

Inwestour

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Central authorities feel threatened by people owning decentralized cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and using them to spend or store their finances which will take control from their hands and give it to Bitcoin where there is no central authority as it is decentralized. If that happens, the traditional financial institutions that have been controlling the finances of people for centuries will suddenly start seeing a drop in their customers and the money being kept with them.

This is probably the biggest threat for them to come up with all these regulations and allegations on exchanges and shutting down platforms, etc. I don't believe that they impose regulations only to keep their citizens from harm or losing money, that is just an excuse to cover things up.

They will use all possible tools to prove that everything that is not controlled by the state carries a danger. They will give examples of FTX, and others, will say everything in order to eventually control our bitcoins in the same way.

The saddest thing about this situation is that many people believe that the state wants to protect them. But they don't seem to notice that all the government is doing is raising taxes and creating laws, that in most cases are directed against people who want to remain free in their actions.

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Quote from: Obari on June 08, 2023, 11:32:07 AM

Quote from: Minecache on June 08, 2023, 08:53:00 AM

Quote from: bayu7adi on June 06, 2023, 11:52:00 PM

Only a foolish country will never do the adoption.

Well I don't know how to say this but I guess you're Invariably calling my country foolish 🤣🤣
Please pardon my emojies but I couldn't help it since it best describe how I feel writing on this because my country and its government has been one of the greatest fighters of cryptocurrencies and bitcoin and mkat times it seems the government are so scared of the youth advancement and as such they are scared of making free any opportunities that seems to make the youths of its country independent and I believe you already know that's a typical foolish act.

I'm not trying to paint my country wrong but the truth must be told with hopes of a better country but for now, my government has been strongly against cryptocurrency.

If he says countries that don't adopt bitcoin are stupid. Not only your country but almost all the countries of the world are stupid because there are very few countries that accept bitcoin as adoption, only a few accept it. China is a good example of banning bitcoin, and I don't think they are a stupid country because they are the 2nd largest economy in the world. But the government is not afraid of the advancement of technology or the youth, what they do not want is that progress is not out of their control. They always want to control everything to ensure their power is not affected or lost.

They are not stupid; they are just scared of things that they can control more over, like money, and we know that the government wants to earn more money, like taxes. The more you earn, the more you pay taxes. Even the poor ones are still paying taxes from their salaries, which I know is for the development of the country, but again, there are a ton of corrupt officials that are just getting your money. Bitcoin is that they can't control it and can't easily track who holds huge amounts of it. That is why they banned it for now so that they could find a way to track those people and be able to tax you as well.

I love your point of view and thank you for bringing up the issue with tax because I don't know why most times I feel my country is always the case study with most criminal and corrupt cases because we're even taxed on a regular phone call and I still wonder how government helps its citizens 🙄
I stand corrected but I've heard of stories and news of America paying its citizens depending on the category they fall and I have no issues with such citizens been taxed not a country like mine where we have to do everything by ourselves and still been taxed by the government and I agree that the government is scared that its citizens might gain freedom if bitcoin is been accepted.

I know many governments are blatantly corrupt and don't care about the people. But using bitcoin to evade taxes is also not a good idea. If we do that, we are using bitcoin against the law, and that is a bad reputation for bitcoin. Moreover, it is not true to say the government does not help us, your job and your safety... are taken care of by the government. They play an extremely important role in creating the society in which we live and exist. We can't completely deny their role, but they are really too greedy.

jostorres

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It may sound a bit crazy, but owning decentralized coins is a better move than having centralized ones. Similarly, using a non-custodial wallet is a step ahead compared to a custodial wallet. So, there's no harm in using coins and wallet services without government intervention, as it's at least two steps ahead in terms of protecting personal identity data.

Considering the economic might of the United States, I remain skeptical that the government would dare to take such actions, given that the cryptocurrency space is still relatively small in comparison to the global economy. What reasons would drive such a move? Does the USD feel threatened by the existence of cryptocurrencies? It simply doesn't make sense.

Central authorities feel threatened by people owning decentralized cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and using them to spend or store their finances which will take control from their hands and give it to Bitcoin where there is no central authority as it is decentralized. If that happens, the traditional financial institutions that have been controlling the finances of people for centuries will suddenly start seeing a drop in their customers and the money being kept with them.

This is probably the biggest threat for them to come up with all these regulations and allegations on exchanges and shutting down platforms, etc. I don't believe that they impose regulations only to keep their citizens from harm or losing money, that is just an excuse to cover things up.

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Quote from: laurenB7742 on June 09, 2023, 12:03:07 AM

What if the governments across the world attempted to seize all of your crypto assets like the US seized all gold from their citizens in the 1900s. Now I'm seeing articles talking about how the US government is trying to be able claim private property.

I think that ultimately this would be very challenging for any government to successfully accomplish. This would cause a revolutionary period again in our world I imagine....

It was easy for the government to seize gold in the 90s because the asset is centralised but for digital assets that operate with non custodial wallets how will the government plan to achieve that? the best the can do is freeze the bank accounts of their citizens which leaves them with no other option but to switch completely to p2p transaction. The only way the government can attack and have control over digital assets is through exchanges and if crypto investors decides to use less of exchange the government will get handicapped

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Quote from: demonica on June 08, 2023, 12:02:36 PM

How would they know every citizen who has Bitcoin? Unless you store them on centralized exchange where they can take control of it. But first, what could be the reason for them to do that? Back in the 1900s, the government confiscated gold to combat the economic crisis. Aside from this possible reason, what could be the other reason for them to target crypto assets? Probably if they're trying to ban or make crypto illegal in the US. But aside from that, I don't know any other reason for that so I don't think there's a big chance of it to happen. If there were an economic crisis, they probably would try to secure gold first rather than crypto assets to back up their currency.

Nor can I think of any reason for the government to do this. Seizing cryptocurrency is not possible because of its decentralization, and above all, cryptocurrency is not something more valuable than gold, it has potential but is still nothing compared to gold. And I agree with you, if there is a major crisis again, they will also find a way to usurp our gold, not our cryptocurrency, which is an unstable and volatile asset. To be fair, gold will always be the first choice if there is a larger crisis.

Truthfully i hered in US & CANADA and i dont know other country is not there and When you lost your job and are still finding one, you are given a pension until you find a job. That's what I've heard in those countries,
The two are very different and if they could do a general crypto seizure it wouldn't take them long to do it, but the truth is that until now they haven't been able to and the government confiscated gold to combat the economic crisis. Aside from this possible reason and such as restricting exchanges or enforcing reporting requirements, the actual seizure of assets will require compliance. action from individuals or the use of force.

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Quote from: demonica on June 08, 2023, 12:02:36 PM

How would they know every citizen who has Bitcoin? Unless you store them on centralized exchange where they can take control of it. But first, what could be the reason for them to do that? Back in the 1900s, the government confiscated gold to combat the economic crisis. Aside from this possible reason, what could be the other reason for them to target crypto assets? Probably if they're trying to ban or make crypto illegal in the US. But aside from that, I don't know any other reason for that so I don't think there's a big chance of it to happen. If there were an economic crisis, they probably would try to secure gold first rather than crypto assets to back up their currency.

Nor can I think of any reason for the government to do this. Seizing cryptocurrency is not possible because of its decentralization, and above all, cryptocurrency is not something more valuable than gold, it has potential but is still nothing compared to gold. And I agree with you, if there is a major crisis again, they will also find a way to usurp our gold, not our cryptocurrency, which is an unstable and volatile asset. To be fair, gold will always be the first choice if there is a larger crisis.

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Quote from: Obari on June 08, 2023, 11:32:07 AM

Quote from: Minecache on June 08, 2023, 08:53:00 AM

Only a foolish country will never do the adoption.

Well I don't know how to say this but I guess you're Invariably calling my country foolish 🤣🤣
Please pardon my emojies but I couldn't help it since it best describe how I feel writing on this because my country and its government has been one of the greatest fighters of cryptocurrencies and bitcoin and mkat times it seems the government are so scared of the youth advancement and as such they are scared of making free any opportunities that seems to make the youths of its country independent and I believe you already know that's a typical foolish act.

I'm not trying to paint my country wrong but the truth must be told with hopes of a better country but for now, my government has been strongly against cryptocurrency.

If he says countries that don't adopt bitcoin are stupid. Not only your country but almost all the countries of the world are stupid because there are very few countries that accept bitcoin as adoption, only a few accept it. China is a good example of banning bitcoin, and I don't think they are a stupid country because they are the 2nd largest economy in the world. But the government is not afraid of the advancement of technology or the youth, what they do not want is that progress is not out of their control. They always want to control everything to ensure their power is not affected or lost.

They are not stupid; they are just scared of things that they can control more over, like money, and we know that the government wants to earn more money, like taxes. The more you earn, the more you pay taxes. Even the poor ones are still paying taxes from their salaries, which I know is for the development of the country, but again, there are a ton of corrupt officials that are just getting your money. Bitcoin is that they can't control it and can't easily track who holds huge amounts of it. That is why they banned it for now so that they could find a way to track those people and be able to tax you as well.

I love your point of view and thank you for bringing up the issue with tax because I don't know why most times I feel my country is always the case study with most criminal and corrupt cases because we're even taxed on a regular phone call and I still wonder how government helps its citizens 🙄
I stand corrected but I've heard of stories and news of America paying its citizens depending on the category they fall and I have no issues with such citizens been taxed not a country like mine where we have to do everything by ourselves and still been taxed by the government and I agree that the government is scared that its citizens might gain freedom if bitcoin is been accepted.

I've also heard that in the US and Canada, but I'm not sure of other countries, the taxes that you are paying will be paid back to you when you are old or if you are struggling financially. When you lost your job and are still finding one, you are given a pension until you find a job. That's what I've heard in those countries, and also old people there are getting money, so that is why there are few beggars there as their government is helping their people, but again, they still pay tax for the good of the country and themselves also.

MarjorieZimmermanGinger

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What if the governments across the world attempted to seize all of your crypto assets like the US seized all gold from their citizens in the 1900s. Now I'm seeing articles talking about how the US government is trying to be able claim private property.

That would be hard to do and I don't think it's as easy as they think, gold has a physical form that can be found whereas bitcoin is stored in a form that can't be found unless people deposit in a centralized exchange. The two are very different and if they could do a general crypto seizure it wouldn't take them long to do it, but the truth is that until now they haven't been able to. Therefore start by not storing bitcoin assets on a centralized exchange by avoiding all possibilities that will occur later.

I think more and more countries will accept crypto, regardless of the approach they started taking before and the examples we might look at in El Salvador and some other countries that are already friendly to bitcoin. My country is even friendlier to Crypto, even though it is not justified to accept it as a legal means of payment, but so far we can still use it as a legal commodity asset.

I think that ultimately this would be very challenging for any government to successfully accomplish. This would cause a revolutionary period again in our world I imagine....

They have tried to limit it by regulation and some have legalized bitcoin, so any possibility to regulate or confiscate is much more difficult and opportunity globally impossible.

demonica

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How would they know every citizen who has Bitcoin? Unless you store them on centralized exchange where they can take control of it. But first, what could be the reason for them to do that? Back in the 1900s, the government confiscated gold to combat the economic crisis. Aside from this possible reason, what could be the other reason for them to target crypto assets? Probably if they're trying to ban or make crypto illegal in the US. But aside from that, I don't know any other reason for that so I don't think there's a big chance of it to happen. If there were an economic crisis, they probably would try to secure gold first rather than crypto assets to back up their currency.

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Quote from: Minecache on June 08, 2023, 08:53:00 AM