Topic: What is a bitcoin really worth? (Read 1345 times)
supply and demand defines worth
What is real value? Its a mix of psychology (fear/greed) and market forces (supply/demand)
A dollar is no more real or valuable or less valuable than a bitcoin in the sense of psychology. Its all relations we humans create in our imagination of what things should be worth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA3WGf9pX0A
A dollar is no more real or valuable or less valuable than a bitcoin in the sense of psychology. Its all relations we humans create in our imagination of what things should be worth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA3WGf9pX0A
i would argue that there is much more volatility involved in the trading of bitcoins and because volatility = fear the bitcoin has much greater psychological implications
I've seen several people say that iff the miners stopped we would no longer be able to use bitcoin because there would be no new blocks. This can not be right. eventually there will be no more mining when we reach the cap. The ability to do transactions can not be miner dependant or this is already a lost game.
can someone explain this?
can someone explain this?
It's true that, if all of the miners stopped completely, no new transactions would go through. People currently mine because "solving" new blocks earns them a reward. Once the cap is reached, then the only reward for mining (which won't really be mining anymore, but I'm not sure what else to call it) will be the transaction fees that are optionally attached to each transaction. As long as there are people willing to process transactions in exchange for those fees, the system will keep rolling.
What is real value? Its a mix of psychology (fear/greed) and market forces (supply/demand)
A dollar is no more real or valuable or less valuable than a bitcoin in the sense of psychology. Its all relations we humans create in our imagination of what things should be worth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA3WGf9pX0A
A dollar is no more real or valuable or less valuable than a bitcoin in the sense of psychology. Its all relations we humans create in our imagination of what things should be worth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA3WGf9pX0A
Surely it'd going to depend on the number of miners compared to the amount of interest.
The amount of media coverage it seems to be getting recently should see it go up and up...
Interested to see what will happen when MT GOX goes back up!
The amount of media coverage it seems to be getting recently should see it go up and up...
Interested to see what will happen when MT GOX goes back up!
I've seen several people say that iff the miners stopped we would no longer be able to use bitcoin because there would be no new blocks. This can not be right. eventually there will be no more mining when we reach the cap. The ability to do transactions can not be miner dependant or this is already a lost game.
can someone explain this?
can someone explain this?
I saw your post from April 9 what you are having trouble getting light going to connect I was having the same issue, what I did I went back to the download page and downloaded the 6.3 version it's a newer version it's working for me now good luck
In my opinion is worth what people think is worth..
And the more people that know about it and want to buy it, the higher the price will go..
But as with any currency, it doesn't have any value by itself, it has the value the people think it has..
And the more people that know about it and want to buy it, the higher the price will go..
But as with any currency, it doesn't have any value by itself, it has the value the people think it has..
Ultimately I think the value will be driven by the amount of economic transactions captured by Bitcoin relative to the limited supply. But this of course is the big question. Does Bitcoin grab a large market because of its quoted superior features, only a very niche market because of its weaknesses, or zero market because it loses the confidence of users...
To Bitcoin, or not to Bitcoin, that is the question:
Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to suffer
The Slings and Arrows of outrageous Finance,
Or to take Arms against a Sea of Bankers,
And by opposing end them: to save, to debase
No more; and by debase, to say we end
The Heart-ache, and the thousand Natural shocks
That Fiat is heir to? 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To save to Bitcoin,
To consume, perchance to Dream; Aye, there's the rub,
For in that decline of Fiat, what dreams may come
With apologies to W.Shakespeare
Edit: And just to be clear: I'm not suggesting anyone actually shoot a banker. Bitcoin is the only weapon needed.
Maybe Max is right. Could this really be headed to 100,000 or a million per bitcoin?
Max Keiser also thought silver was worth $500oz, but I just look at production costs and see it's worth around $10oz.
When bubbles bursts most commodities head back to their true intrinsic value, how much it cost to produce.
This line of thinking perhaps assumes there is a fixed cost of production that commodity prices will all revert toward. However production costs change, and it is the combination of supply and demand that drives both the price and the cost of production. For example, if there is increased demand for silver and silver prices rise significantly, silver miners are more profitable and encouraged to mine more, eventually (though with a long lag) increasing supply until price is back in equilibrium with the new and higher level of marginal cost (given silver supplies become a little scarcer and more expensive to extract).
As Bitcoin prices rise significantly, Bitcoin miners also earn higher margins and are encouraged to produce more, which drives up the difficulty to maintain a fairly constant supply. This leaves both the price and the cost of production at a higher level, and in balance with the demand.
Ultimately I think the value will be driven by the amount of economic transactions captured by Bitcoin relative to the limited supply. But this of course is the big question. Does Bitcoin grab a large market because of its quoted superior features, only a very niche market because of its weaknesses, or zero market because it loses the confidence of users...
Maybe Max is right. Could this really be headed to 100,000 or a million per bitcoin?
Max Keiser also thought silver was worth $500oz, but I just look at production costs and see it's worth around $10oz.
When bubbles bursts most commodities head back to their true intrinsic value, how much it cost to produce.
Bitcoins are stored as numbers. Numbers have no intrinsic value. Mining cost has nothing to do with "Bitcoin production cost"; rather, mining is what keeps the Bitcoin network running, and miners are currently paid for their efforts primarily through block rewards. Without the network, the numbers are useless and worth nothing.
So, the intrinsic value of Bitcoin *is* the network of miners.
So how much is a global, decentralized, borderless, and reliable payment system worth?
eBay paid a reported $1.5B for PayPal way back in 2002.
Just sayin'
Maybe Max is right. Could this really be headed to 100,000 or a million per bitcoin?
Max Keiser also thought silver was worth $500oz, but I just look at production costs and see it's worth around $10oz.
When bubbles bursts most commodities head back to their true intrinsic value, how much it cost to produce.
ECON 101 : Supply and demand.
The supply since the block reward half has been reduced, and the demand is ever increasing as new users come online. The places you can spend them the more attractive having them becomes.
The supply since the block reward half has been reduced, and the demand is ever increasing as new users come online. The places you can spend them the more attractive having them becomes.
It's worth what we as a community decide it is worth. If everyone decided to stop mining tomorrow, it would be worth nothing. If we all decided it's useful as medium of exchange and store of value, then it is worth more. How much more depends on what how many people use it and for what. It's an exciting experiment.
It would not be worth nothing if the mining stopped because what has been mined would still exist. And there are only 11 million bitcoins in existence. That is very little compared to silver bullion for example. Perhaps that is another way to put a value on it - compare it to silver and gold?
Maybe Max is right. Could this really be headed to 100,000 or a million per bitcoin?
True, but if the miners quit, the blockchain could not be built on and transactions would stop. Perhaps, people could take that blockchain and decide it's the "true blockchain" build a protocol that doesn't have miners, but "transactors," and continue on with a new protocol, but would that still be Bitcoin? It's almost a Ship of Theseus paradox.
I think deciding to "invest" in bitcoin as a form of speculation is a bad idea for the community. We have infrastructure, goods, and services to further the economy. A little bit of speculation isn't harmful, but we need to keep our thinking grounded in the present, for the future's sake.
Maybe Max is right. Could this really be headed to 100,000 or a million per bitcoin?
Next week or next month? Nope.
In the longer term? Perhaps, but I think bitcoin would have to become a serious reserve currency for that. I'd be very surprised if that happened within my meaningful lifetime. It would be something incredible if it happened within 20 years, and beyond extraordinary if it happened in under ten, IMHO.
If the big boys are starting to play this market (Goldman, JP and other banksters), we could see $1k per BTC fairly soon, but then the big question will be: is that the top of a bubble? Sell, or continue to ride the bull? And of course, the bears like proudhon and evolve could be proven right and we crash to $10 next month...
...'cause, Bitcoin!
Something is worth whatever you and one other person decides it's worth. If Gator-hex, for example, will pay you $10 for one BTC and you agree, then, between the two of you it's worth $10. You could say that you want $1000 for one BTC, but if nobody else agrees, then it's not worth that amount.
There's nothing "real" about money at all, actually. It's all a representation of something else - gold, a car, your time... The colored paper in your wallet or the bytes that make up your BTC wallet themselves really are an illusion. )Apologies to Baudrillard for mangling his philosophy!)
There's nothing "real" about money at all, actually. It's all a representation of something else - gold, a car, your time... The colored paper in your wallet or the bytes that make up your BTC wallet themselves really are an illusion. )Apologies to Baudrillard for mangling his philosophy!)
It's worth what we as a community decide it is worth. If everyone decided to stop mining tomorrow, it would be worth nothing. If we all decided it's useful as medium of exchange and store of value, then it is worth more. How much more depends on what how many people use it and for what. It's an exciting experiment.
It's worth the equipment cost and electricity it costs to mine it.
it has to be worth something. If its value would be 0 and you would like to send any money using it, then you always end up with 0 (0xvalue=0).
It has to have separate value because what currency would you use? None is good because every one out there is printed and managed by governments.
It has to have separate value because what currency would you use? None is good because every one out there is printed and managed by governments.
dunno the minimum, but there will be a maximum price.
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