What is BIP39 - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: bitmover on March 05, 2023, 09:11:08 PM

Just to add to this answer, there are many bip 39 translations which can be seen here:

It is highly recommend not to use a local wordlist since the majority of wallets only support the English wordlist.

This is another drawback of BIP39, in that you must know the wordlist used. Electrum seeds can be used with an unknown wordlist.

Quote from: Sarah Azhari on March 06, 2023, 02:17:35 AM

is BIP39 is a development from BIP32?, if yes, why they don't continue their development about vulnerability or weakness which was shown by electrum?

The weaknesses shown by Electrum were apparent before the creation of BIP39. The developers of BIP39 decided they were not severe enough to need addressed, but now we frequently see users unable to track down their wallets due to unknown derivation paths or script types.

And now that BIP39 is so ubiquitous, they cannot address them without introducing an entire new seed phrase system which would be incompatible with existing seed phrases.

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: Sarah Azhari on March 06, 2023, 02:17:35 AM

why they don't continue their development about vulnerability or weakness which was shown by electrum?.

There is no vulnerability in BIP39 seed phrase and that's safe enough.
Electrum's seed phrase includes a version number which makes each seed phrase generate only 1 type of addresses. Unlike electrum's seed phrase, BIP39 seed phrase doesn't include a version number and that's why electrum developers don't like BIP39 seed phrase.

Sarah Azhari

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Quote from: Saint-loup on March 05, 2023, 05:57:10 PM

Actually before BIP39 there was BIP32 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0032.mediawiki
BIP32 has been created in February 2012 while BIP39 has been created in September 2013 precisely. And it's BIP32 which introduced/standardized Hierarchical Deterministic Wallets, BIP39 only allowed them to be more easily usable and memorizable by humans. But Bitcoin Core still doesn't use BIP39 seeds for example, only BIP32 ones in WIF format.

is BIP39 is a development from BIP32?, if yes, why they don't continue their development about vulnerability or weakness which was shown by electrum?.

Quote

A fixed wordlist is still required. Following our recommendation, BIP39 authors decided to derive keys and addresses in a way that does not depend on the wordlist. However, BIP39 still requires the wordlist in order to compute its checksum, which is plainly inconsistent, and defeats the purpose of our recommendation. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that BIP39 proposes to create one wordlist per language. This threatens the portability of BIP39 seed phrases.

BIP39 seed phrases do not include a version number. This means that software should always know how to generate keys and addresses. BIP43 suggests that wallet software will try various existing derivation schemes within the BIP32 framework. This is extremely inefficient and rests on the assumption that future wallets will support all previously accepted derivation methods. If, in the future, a wallet developer decides not to implement a particular derivation method because it is deprecated, then the software will not be able to detect that the corresponding seed phrases are not supported, and it will return an empty wallet instead. This threatens users funds.

https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/seedphrase.html

bitmover

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on February 26, 2023, 07:58:00 AM

Read more about it from here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki

To know more about hierarchical deterministic (HD) wallet: https://github.com/bitcoinbook/bitcoinbook/blob/develop/ch05.asciidoc

BIP39 is the mnemonic code or seed phrase that was introduced which can be used to generate keys and addresses which gives rise to child keys. Before in non HD wallets, only the individual child keys are used individually as backup, unlike the 12 to 24 words (the seed phrase) that can be used now to generate the child keys.

Just to add to this answer, there are many bip 39 translations which can be seen here:

https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/tree/master/bip-0039

The portuguese version was a community effort from the bitcointalk.org portuguese board, and you can see many usernames of this forum in the contributors of this github repository.

Saint-loup

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on February 26, 2023, 07:58:00 AM

Read more about it from here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki

To know more about hierarchical deterministic (HD) wallet: https://github.com/bitcoinbook/bitcoinbook/blob/develop/ch05.asciidoc

BIP39 is the mnemonic code or seed phrase that was introduced which can be used to generate keys and addresses which gives rise to child keys. Before in non HD wallets, only the individual child keys are used individually as backup, unlike the 12 to 24 words (the seed phrase) that can be used now to generate the child keys.

Actually before BIP39 there was BIP32 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0032.mediawiki
BIP32 has been created in February 2012 while BIP39 has been created in September 2013 precisely. And it's BIP32 which introduced/standardized Hierarchical Deterministic Wallets, BIP39 only allowed them to be more easily usable and memorizable by humans. But Bitcoin Core still doesn't use BIP39 seeds for example, only BIP32 ones in WIF format.

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Quote from: letteredhub on February 26, 2023, 07:47:51 AM

Since I became a member of the bitcointalk community and have been taking time to read through some few posts I have been seeing some posts whose questions are wallet related questions, and going through a few comments in those posts they made mention of something "BIP39 seed phrase", and I have been wanting to know what is this BIP39 and it's significant or is it just an acronym about a wallet?

For the sake of simplicity, let's assume that you use a long password consisting of multiple words separated by whitespace to access your "account" in the blockchain. But the password itself is not enough to communicate with the blockchain, you need a piece of software or a wallet to facilitate this task. The magic is that your "password" or seed phrase is universally accepted by all these different types of wallets, which means you can use almost whatever wallet you wish to interact with the bitcoin blockchain. At the very least, it is very convenient for the end user since he doesn't need to care for compatibility issues. What makes compatibility possible in the first place? BIP39. It describes an approach to key creation, how and why wallets should interpret the set of words you feed them, and wallets follow it to be compatible with the standard and one another.

nc50lc

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Quote from: letteredhub on February 26, 2023, 07:47:51 AM

-snip- , and going through a few comments in those posts they made mention of something "BIP39 seed phrase", and I have been wanting to know what is this BIP39 and it's significant or is it just an acronym about a wallet?

If you're wondering what "BIP" means, yes it's an acronym but not of a wallet.
It's one of the many "Bitcoin Improvement Proposals" (github link), the number next to it is set by the author, usually in numeric order or already reserved.

So if you see another "BIP-XX" in a comment, the author is talking about a proposal from the list above.

DireWolfM14

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Make sure to learn the differences between the common uses of the term "Bip39." As has been pointed out, the mnemonic seed is called a "Bip39 seed phrase," but you'll also run into the term "Bip39 passphrase." The two are not the same; a Bip39 passphrase is an extension to a Bip39 seed phrase.

Pmalek

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What o_e_l_e_o said about Electrum being an exception shouldn't put you off from using that software if you want to. There is nothing wrong with Electrum or its native seeds. In fact, they have slightly more entropy (call it security) than a BIP39 seed. Either standard is fine. The difference is you have fewer options to recover an Electrum-native seed outside of Electrum, while BIP39 seeds are accepted by most wallets.

Electrum seeds have one advantage when you recover a wallet (in Electrum). By entering your seed words, the software automatically knows what type of wallet it needs to recover (legacy, nested, or native segwit). With a BIP39 seed, you need to point the software towards the correct derivation path and provide information about the type of addresses you want to recover. If you do it wrongly, the software can recover what looks like an empty wallet, making you think you don't have any coins or you made a mistake backing up your recover phrase.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on February 26, 2023, 07:58:00 AM

BIP39 is the mnemonic code or seed phrase that was introduced which can be used to generate keys and addresses which gives rise to child keys.

A small correction - BIP39 did not introduce this concept. Seed phrases existed for a number of years before BIP39 was published. The aim of BIP39 was to standardize the process of generating the seed phrase and turning the seed phrase in to a wallet. It has largely achieved that given that the majority of wallets now follow BIP39, but there remains one notable exception being Electrum seed phrases (which predate BIP39 seed phrases).

Charles-Tim

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Read more about it from here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki

To know more about hierarchical deterministic (HD) wallet: https://github.com/bitcoinbook/bitcoinbook/blob/develop/ch05.asciidoc

BIP39 is the mnemonic code or seed phrase that was introduced which can be used to generate keys and addresses which gives rise to child keys. Before in non HD wallets, only the individual child keys are used individually as backup, unlike the 12 to 24 words (the seed phrase) that can be used now to generate the child keys.

letteredhub

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Since I became a member of the bitcointalk community and have been taking time to read through some few posts I have been seeing some posts whose questions are wallet related questions, and going through a few comments in those posts they made mention of something "BIP39 seed phrase", and I have been wanting to know what is this BIP39 and it's significant or is it just an acronym about a wallet?

Topic: What is BIP39 - page 2. (Read 435 times)