What is Bitcoins Purpose? Or have we Forgotten..

Swordsoffreedom

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Quote from: Beliathon on April 01, 2014, 05:32:34 PM

Quote from: Joshuar on March 31, 2014, 07:25:51 PM

So my question is, What is Bitcoin's true purpose?

There is no objective truth to answer that question. It's subjective.

What is Bitcoin's purpose?
Whatever each individual wants it to be. Some of us are in it for ideological reasons, others technological, and still others financial profit.

Sounds about right in the end we are all here on a rationality of one sort or another

Beliathon

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Quote from: Joshuar on March 31, 2014, 07:25:51 PM

So my question is, What is Bitcoin's true purpose?

There is no objective truth to answer that question. It's subjective.

What is Bitcoin's purpose?
Whatever each individual wants it to be. Some of us are in it for ideological reasons, others technological, and still others financial profit.

twiifm

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Quote from: ~Coinseeker~ on March 31, 2014, 08:53:07 PM

Quote from: Joshuar on March 31, 2014, 07:45:17 PM

Makes sense...draw in the investors looking for a quick buck, then they'll draw in more in hopes of increasing the demand and price of the crypto, leading to wider adoption, until the choice comes down to the majority or rest of the population to accept it as a currency or not, even though it already functions and is used as a currency.

That's called a pyramid scheme and that's why Bitcoin's not working. You can't have a currency with the mantra of "buy and hold", when they need to "buy and spend". Otherwise, Bitcoin is not useful and it remains poorly distributed. Doesn't matter how many business jump on the free advertisement hype, people can't spend what they don't have. I'm not sure what Bitcoin's purpose is other than "to the moon". Good for speculators (maybe) useless to the general public.

This is because bit coin is designed deflationary. If it had a demurrage design or if bitcoin can be created ex nihilo . Then it would take away the speculative nature and people would use it as currency.

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Quote from: ~Coinseeker~ on April 01, 2014, 11:31:49 AM

So, you too can get butthurt over a simple forum debate and take your ball and go home.

Who's butthurt? I'm just calling out bullshit where I see it. People talking on a forum is not a promotional model. End of.

Quote from: ~Coinseeker~ on April 01, 2014, 11:31:49 AM

It merely describes the model by which Bitcoin is promoted.

Except for the part where it doesn't. This site is promoting Bitcoin. It's likely one of the first things people will see if they start to look at Bitcoin seriously, rather than just believing what they read in the media. Show me where it's saying "hodl" and "to the moon". Bitcoin is not being marketed as a pyramid scheme. End of.

Quote from: ~Coinseeker~ on April 01, 2014, 11:31:49 AM

Then it's not a currency, its an investment. So, stop acting as if people will realistically use Bitcoin to transact. You can't have it both ways.

It's a payment platform. If people want to speculate with it they're more than welcome to, but if you want to spend bitcoins as money then you're free to do that too. It's obvious to anyone with a brain that you can have it both ways. Maybe there are too many people here fixated on the price, but it still doesn't make Bitcoin a pyramid scheme. End of.

Quote from: ~Coinseeker~ on April 01, 2014, 11:31:49 AM

Perception is reality. Simple as that. What you think or want to happen, is irrelevant as, this investment model, is at the mercy of whether the general public decides to buy in or not.

Your perception is nowhere near reality, but I think everyone can see that. Thankfully that also means what you think and want to happen is also irrelevant, so that's the one thing I'll agree with you on.

Any more cognitive dissonance you'd like to throw out there that can be torn apart with ease?

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Quote from: DooMAD on April 01, 2014, 11:23:41 AM

Quote from: ~Coinseeker~ on April 01, 2014, 11:14:26 AM

Quote from: DooMAD on April 01, 2014, 11:11:56 AM

Quote from: ~Coinseeker~ on April 01, 2014, 11:08:36 AM

Quote from: DooMAD on April 01, 2014, 10:38:13 AM

I never said people "need" financial advice to use Bitcoin, are you trying to miss the point? It doesn't matter what people on the forum say, or how many people either are or aren't saying it. Each individual has a mind of their own and can do their own research. It's not a ponzi scheme regardless of how many speculators like to talk up the price.

Quote

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money, or the money paid by subsequent investors, instead of from profit earned by the individuals running the business. Ponzi schemes are designed to collapse at the expense of the last investors when there is not enough new participants.

Bitcoin's price can go down as well as up. You can make or lose money regardless of how early or how late you chose to buy any bitcoins. It's subject to market supply and demand and is therefore by definition not a ponzi scheme. Go spread FUD somewhere else.

I didn't say it was a ponzi, although I guess one could make that argument. I prefer pyramid, as it relates to Bitcoins promotion model. It is what it is. I didn't make it this way, so don't be mad at me. You'd be wise to find ways to fix the problem, instead of dismissing reality. Pretending its not truth, will not make it magically go away and it's certainly not going to win favor with the masses.

A ponzi scheme and a pyramid scheme mean the same thing. Troll harder.

No, they aren't. Research harder. Don't get butthurt because I speak the truth. In fact, get used to it. The world has a right to know and be properly informed to what is fact and what is fiction and I will be doing all I can to make sure they get that knowledge. If that bothers or frightens you with your Bitcoin investment, fix your promotional model...

If you think people commenting on a forum constitutes a "promotional model" then say whatever you like because no one is going to take you seriously. Of course people who have invested money would ideally like to see a healthy return. But that still doesn't make Bitcoin a pyramid scheme. I'll say it again in case it didn't sink in the first time: Bitcoin's price can go down as well as up. You can make or lose money regardless of how early or how late you chose to buy any bitcoins. By definition it is not a pyramid. I suppose next you'll tell me the stock market is a pyramid because people want to see their investments go up, because that would be equally retarded as what you're saying now.

You've got a pretty messed up concept of "fact" and "fiction" and I wish you the best of luck in getting your head straight.

Then it's not a currency, its an investment. So, stop acting as if people will realistically use Bitcoin to transact. You can't have it both ways. A pyramid doesn't necessarily have to be a malicious thing. It's doesn't necessarily mean, someone purposely set out to dupe people. That's where you're missing the point, with your hypersensitive loyalty to Bitcoin. It merely describes the model by which Bitcoin is promoted and how that will affect it's possibilities of becoming a global currency. I've already stated, it's not going to work, for exactly that point. So, you too can get butthurt over a simple forum debate and take your ball and go home. That's fine, but facts are facts and ignoring the long-term ramifications of such a promotional model, is done at the risk of your own "investment".

If the general public believes it's a pyramid, then they won't buy and Bitcoin doesn't go up. Perception is reality. Simple as that. What you think or want to happen, is irrelevant as, this investment model, is at the mercy of whether the general public decides to buy in or not. Pretty limited future IMO, when it should have been based on utility and transactional volume, not speculation and investment.

Swordsoffreedom

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To change the world and help others while at the same times helping ourselves
Pretty much the bitcoin wiki argument for early adopters and late adopters

DooMAD

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Quote from: ~Coinseeker~ on April 01, 2014, 11:14:26 AM

Quote from: DooMAD on April 01, 2014, 11:11:56 AM

Quote from: ~Coinseeker~ on April 01, 2014, 11:08:36 AM

Quote from: DooMAD on April 01, 2014, 10:38:13 AM

I never said people "need" financial advice to use Bitcoin, are you trying to miss the point? It doesn't matter what people on the forum say, or how many people either are or aren't saying it. Each individual has a mind of their own and can do their own research. It's not a ponzi scheme regardless of how many speculators like to talk up the price.

Quote

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money, or the money paid by subsequent investors, instead of from profit earned by the individuals running the business. Ponzi schemes are designed to collapse at the expense of the last investors when there is not enough new participants.

Bitcoin's price can go down as well as up. You can make or lose money regardless of how early or how late you chose to buy any bitcoins. It's subject to market supply and demand and is therefore by definition not a ponzi scheme. Go spread FUD somewhere else.

I didn't say it was a ponzi, although I guess one could make that argument. I prefer pyramid, as it relates to Bitcoins promotion model. It is what it is. I didn't make it this way, so don't be mad at me. You'd be wise to find ways to fix the problem, instead of dismissing reality. Pretending its not truth, will not make it magically go away and it's certainly not going to win favor with the masses.

A ponzi scheme and a pyramid scheme mean the same thing. Troll harder.

No, they aren't. Research harder. Don't get butthurt because I speak the truth. In fact, get used to it. The world has a right to know and be properly informed to what is fact and what is fiction and I will be doing all I can to make sure they get that knowledge. If that bothers or frightens you with your Bitcoin investment, fix your promotional model...

If you think people commenting on a forum constitutes a "promotional model" then say whatever you like because no one is going to take you seriously. Of course people who have invested money would ideally like to see a healthy return. But that still doesn't make Bitcoin a pyramid scheme. I'll say it again in case it didn't sink in the first time: Bitcoin's price can go down as well as up. You can make or lose money regardless of how early or how late you chose to buy any bitcoins. By definition it is not a pyramid. I suppose next you'll tell me the stock market is a pyramid because people want to see their investments go up, because that would be equally retarded as what you're saying now.

You've got a pretty messed up concept of "fact" and "fiction" and I wish you the best of luck in getting your head straight.

~Coinseeker~

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Quote from: DooMAD on April 01, 2014, 11:11:56 AM

Quote from: ~Coinseeker~ on April 01, 2014, 11:08:36 AM

Quote from: DooMAD on April 01, 2014, 10:38:13 AM

I never said people "need" financial advice to use Bitcoin, are you trying to miss the point? It doesn't matter what people on the forum say, or how many people either are or aren't saying it. Each individual has a mind of their own and can do their own research. It's not a ponzi scheme regardless of how many speculators like to talk up the price.

Quote

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money, or the money paid by subsequent investors, instead of from profit earned by the individuals running the business. Ponzi schemes are designed to collapse at the expense of the last investors when there is not enough new participants.

Bitcoin's price can go down as well as up. You can make or lose money regardless of how early or how late you chose to buy any bitcoins. It's subject to market supply and demand and is therefore by definition not a ponzi scheme. Go spread FUD somewhere else.

I didn't say it was a ponzi, although I guess one could make that argument. I prefer pyramid, as it relates to Bitcoins promotion model. It is what it is. I didn't make it this way, so don't be mad at me. You'd be wise to find ways to fix the problem, instead of dismissing reality. Pretending its not truth, will not make it magically go away and it's certainly not going to win favor with the masses.

A ponzi scheme and a pyramid scheme mean the same thing. Troll harder.

No, they aren't. Research harder. Don't get butthurt because I speak the truth. In fact, get used to it. The world has a right to know and be properly informed to what is fact and what is fiction and I will be doing all I can to make sure they get that knowledge. If that bothers or frightens you with your Bitcoin investment, fix your promotional model...

DooMAD

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Leave no FUD unchallenged

Quote from: ~Coinseeker~ on April 01, 2014, 11:08:36 AM

Quote from: DooMAD on April 01, 2014, 10:38:13 AM

I never said people "need" financial advice to use Bitcoin, are you trying to miss the point? It doesn't matter what people on the forum say, or how many people either are or aren't saying it. Each individual has a mind of their own and can do their own research. It's not a ponzi scheme regardless of how many speculators like to talk up the price.

Quote

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money, or the money paid by subsequent investors, instead of from profit earned by the individuals running the business. Ponzi schemes are designed to collapse at the expense of the last investors when there is not enough new participants.

Bitcoin's price can go down as well as up. You can make or lose money regardless of how early or how late you chose to buy any bitcoins. It's subject to market supply and demand and is therefore by definition not a ponzi scheme. Go spread FUD somewhere else.

I didn't say it was a ponzi, although I guess one could make that argument. I prefer pyramid, as it relates to Bitcoins promotion model. It is what it is. I didn't make it this way, so don't be mad at me. You'd be wise to find ways to fix the problem, instead of dismissing reality. Pretending its not truth, will not make it magically go away and it's certainly not going to win favor with the masses.

A ponzi scheme and a pyramid scheme mean the same thing. Troll harder.

~Coinseeker~

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Quote from: DooMAD on April 01, 2014, 10:38:13 AM

I never said people "need" financial advice to use Bitcoin, are you trying to miss the point? It doesn't matter what people on the forum say, or how many people either are or aren't saying it. Each individual has a mind of their own and can do their own research. It's not a ponzi scheme regardless of how many speculators like to talk up the price.

Quote

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money, or the money paid by subsequent investors, instead of from profit earned by the individuals running the business. Ponzi schemes are designed to collapse at the expense of the last investors when there is not enough new participants.

Bitcoin's price can go down as well as up. You can make or lose money regardless of how early or how late you chose to buy any bitcoins. It's subject to market supply and demand and is therefore by definition not a ponzi scheme. Go spread FUD somewhere else.

I didn't say it was a ponzi, although I guess one could make that argument. I prefer pyramid, as it relates to Bitcoins promotion model. It is what it is. I didn't make it this way, so don't be mad at me. You'd be wise to find ways to fix the problem, instead of dismissing reality. Pretending its not truth, will not make it magically go away and it's certainly not going to win favor with the masses.

Quote from: 5thStreetResearch on April 01, 2014, 10:43:40 AM

Bitcoin is supposed to be something more than an investment. Actually it wasn't designed to be a speculative tool at all, naturally when people think there is money to be made though it became that. The IRS has put a serious damper on bitcoin functioning as a currency in the future, at least in the US, which is what bitcoin was originally designed to be.

Truth. This is because of how it's always been promoted, as an investment, not a currency. Because of that, speculative volume dwarfs transactional volume and the IRS really has not choice but to classify it by what it is. A speculative commodity. You just can't have it both ways and expect it to work well as both.

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Bitcoin is supposed to be something more than an investment. Actually it wasn't designed to be a speculative tool at all, naturally when people think there is money to be made though it became that. The IRS has put a serious damper on bitcoin functioning as a currency in the future, at least in the US, which is what bitcoin was originally designed to be.

DooMAD

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Quote from: ~Coinseeker~ on April 01, 2014, 10:24:25 AM

Quote from: DooMAD on April 01, 2014, 10:20:04 AM

You're talking as if everyone:

a) reads this forum, and
b) takes financial advice from strangers on the internet.

A few people bleating "hodl" on the forums does not constitute a ponzi scheme. Get a clue plz.

A "few" people, please. Who are you trying to sell this nonsense to? That's all most Bitcoiners ever talk about. "To the moon" "Hodl" Grin

You're either lying or it's you that needs to get a clue.

Second, if people need "financial advice" to use Bitcoin, it's a non-starter for the general public and it's certainly not a currency.

I never said people "need" financial advice to use Bitcoin, are you trying to miss the point? It doesn't matter what people on the forum say, or how many people either are or aren't saying it. Each individual has a mind of their own and can do their own research. It's not a ponzi scheme regardless of how many speculators like to talk up the price.

Quote

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money, or the money paid by subsequent investors, instead of from profit earned by the individuals running the business. Ponzi schemes are designed to collapse at the expense of the last investors when there is not enough new participants.

Bitcoin's price can go down as well as up. You can make or lose money regardless of how early or how late you chose to buy any bitcoins. It's subject to market supply and demand and is therefore by definition not a ponzi scheme. Go spread FUD somewhere else.

~Coinseeker~

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Quote from: DooMAD on April 01, 2014, 10:20:04 AM

You're talking as if everyone:

a) reads this forum, and
b) takes financial advice from strangers on the internet.

A few people bleating "hodl" on the forums does not constitute a ponzi scheme. Get a clue plz.

A "few" people, please. Who are you trying to sell this nonsense to? That's all most Bitcoiners ever talk about. "To the moon" "Hodl" Grin

You're either lying or it's you that needs to get a clue.

Second, if people need "financial advice" to use Bitcoin, it's a non-starter for the general public and it's certainly not a currency.

DooMAD

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Quote from: ~Coinseeker~ on April 01, 2014, 10:10:43 AM

Quote from: GenTarkin on April 01, 2014, 09:58:05 AM

Quote from: ~Coinseeker~ on April 01, 2014, 09:53:04 AM

Quote from: Joshuar on April 01, 2014, 09:33:23 AM

If you think about it, the usd/fiat system is a pyramid scheme too..

Assuming that's true, does that justify the pyramid promotional model of Bitcoin? More importantly, is this model sustainable?

As for USD, I don't have to buy-in at higher and higher prices to get them. They are issued for the work we do and thus, everyone has access to them. Complete opposite with bitcoins.

Hrm ... not sure where you are getting the higher and higher prices buy in.... in case you havent noticed bitcoin has been going down.

Also, sure w/ USD everyone has access to them ... the sad part is hardly anyone gets enough of them and if they do, they become more worthless as time passes ...

Bitcoin is far from a pyramid scheme ... lol

If your the type of person that looks at Bitcoin and says "oh its a pyramid scheme" ... then ur the type of person that looks at EVERYTHING that way.

Bitcoin the tech, is sound. There is no issue there. The promotion model of Bitcoin is a pyramid...there's no arguing that. It doesn't take rocket science to see that. Pyramids are very easy to understand, that's why they work. Greed does the rest. Look at this whole forum. The mantra is "buy and hold" not "buy and spend". And go out and get others to come buyin too. That's a pyramid marketing model. Period. Drive the price up, those at the bottom get left holding the bag and the currency still remains poorly distributed and actual transactions aren't happening in mass, because of "buy and hold". That's why the price is dropping. People are catching on.

Your argument with people don't get enough USD, really just reflects right back to my arguments agains Bitcoin. Distribution of Bitcoin is pathetic. Significantly less access than USD, so that's a really bad argument for you make. Bitcoin's purpose has always been to make early adopters rich and it's this singular focus that will prevent it from every becoming a serious world currency. It's just simply economics and math.

You're talking as if everyone:

a) reads this forum, and
b) takes financial advice from strangers on the internet, and
c) didn't already know about Bitcoin before they found their way here.

A few people bleating "hodl" on the forums does not constitute a ponzi scheme. Get a clue plz. Every major website out there doing any "promotion" for Bitcoin is marketing it as a payment platform. The very tech which you said yourself is sound.

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Quote from: GenTarkin on April 01, 2014, 09:58:05 AM

Quote from: ~Coinseeker~ on April 01, 2014, 09:53:04 AM

Quote from: Joshuar on April 01, 2014, 09:33:23 AM

If you think about it, the usd/fiat system is a pyramid scheme too..

Assuming that's true, does that justify the pyramid promotional model of Bitcoin? More importantly, is this model sustainable?

As for USD, I don't have to buy-in at higher and higher prices to get them. They are issued for the work we do and thus, everyone has access to them. Complete opposite with bitcoins.

Hrm ... not sure where you are getting the higher and higher prices buy in.... in case you havent noticed bitcoin has been going down.

Also, sure w/ USD everyone has access to them ... the sad part is hardly anyone gets enough of them and if they do, they become more worthless as time passes ...

Bitcoin is far from a pyramid scheme ... lol

If your the type of person that looks at Bitcoin and says "oh its a pyramid scheme" ... then ur the type of person that looks at EVERYTHING that way.

Bitcoin the tech, is sound. There is no issue there. The promotion model of Bitcoin is a pyramid...there's no arguing that. It doesn't take rocket science to see that. Pyramids are very easy to understand, that's why they work. Greed does the rest. Look at this whole forum. The mantra is "buy and hold" not "buy and spend". And go out and get others to come buyin too. That's a pyramid marketing model. Period. Drive the price up, those at the bottom get left holding the bag and the currency still remains poorly distributed and actual transactions aren't happening in mass, because of "buy and hold". That's why the price is dropping. People are catching on.

Your argument with people don't get enough USD, really just reflects right back to my arguments agains Bitcoin. Distribution of Bitcoin is pathetic. Significantly less access than USD, so that's a really bad argument for you make. Bitcoin's purpose has always been to make early adopters rich and it's this singular focus that will prevent it from every becoming a serious world currency. It's just simply economics and math.

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Bitcoin will have its ups and downs but personally I think it'll stay

GenTarkin

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Quote from: ~Coinseeker~ on April 01, 2014, 09:53:04 AM

Quote from: Joshuar on April 01, 2014, 09:33:23 AM

If you think about it, the usd/fiat system is a pyramid scheme too..

Assuming that's true, does that justify the pyramid promotional model of Bitcoin? More importantly, is this model sustainable?

As for USD, I don't have to buy-in at higher and higher prices to get them. They are issued for the work we do and thus, everyone has access to them. Complete opposite with bitcoins.

Hrm ... not sure where you are getting the higher and higher prices buy in.... in case you havent noticed bitcoin has been going down.

Also, sure w/ USD everyone has access to them ... the sad part is hardly anyone gets enough of them and if they do, they become more worthless as time passes ...

Bitcoin is far from a pyramid scheme ... lol

If your the type of person that looks at Bitcoin and says "oh its a pyramid scheme" ... then ur the type of person that looks at EVERYTHING that way.

~Coinseeker~

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Activity: 56

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Quote from: Joshuar on April 01, 2014, 09:33:23 AM

If you think about it, the usd/fiat system is a pyramid scheme too..

Assuming that's true, does that justify the pyramid promotional model of Bitcoin? More importantly, is this model sustainable?

As for USD, I don't have to buy-in at higher and higher prices to get them. They are issued for the work we do and thus, everyone has access to them. Complete opposite with bitcoins.

GenTarkin

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Quote from: whtchocla7e on April 01, 2014, 09:41:35 AM

Quote from: Joshuar on April 01, 2014, 09:33:23 AM

Quote from: ~Coinseeker~ on March 31, 2014, 08:53:07 PM

Quote from: Joshuar on March 31, 2014, 07:45:17 PM

Makes sense...draw in the investors looking for a quick buck, then they'll draw in more in hopes of increasing the demand and price of the crypto, leading to wider adoption, until the choice comes down to the majority or rest of the population to accept it as a currency or not, even though it already functions and is used as a currency.

That's called a pyramid scheme and that's why Bitcoin's not working. You can't have a currency with the mantra of "buy and hold", when they need to "buy and spend". Otherwise, Bitcoin is not useful and it remains poorly distributed. Doesn't matter how many business jump on the free advertisement hype, people can't spend what they don't have. I'm not sure what Bitcoin's purpose is other than "to the moon". Good for speculators (maybe) useless to the general public.

If you think about it, the usd/fiat system is a pyramid scheme too..

If you think about it harder, the whole human existence is a pyramid scheme too...

Some pyramid schemes are just necessary for our survival.

And fiat, luckily, aint necessary for survival =)

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Quote from: Joshuar on April 01, 2014, 09:33:23 AM

Quote from: ~Coinseeker~ on March 31, 2014, 08:53:07 PM

Quote from: Joshuar on March 31, 2014, 07:45:17 PM

Makes sense...draw in the investors looking for a quick buck, then they'll draw in more in hopes of increasing the demand and price of the crypto, leading to wider adoption, until the choice comes down to the majority or rest of the population to accept it as a currency or not, even though it already functions and is used as a currency.

That's called a pyramid scheme and that's why Bitcoin's not working. You can't have a currency with the mantra of "buy and hold", when they need to "buy and spend". Otherwise, Bitcoin is not useful and it remains poorly distributed. Doesn't matter how many business jump on the free advertisement hype, people can't spend what they don't have. I'm not sure what Bitcoin's purpose is other than "to the moon". Good for speculators (maybe) useless to the general public.

If you think about it, the usd/fiat system is a pyramid scheme too..

If you think about it harder, the whole human existence is a pyramid scheme too...

The strong pray on the weak.

Some pyramid schemes are just necessary for our survival.

Topic: What is Bitcoins Purpose? Or have we Forgotten.. (Read 1720 times)