What is left of Bitcoin as a tool to free the financial world

Desmong

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Quote from: hZti on December 31, 2022, 05:08:55 AM

Day by day the bitcoin price is declining. It seems that the price these days is largely dictated by miners that constantly sell coins and investors that hope for future profits. That is also what most topics in this forum are about. What I see less and less are post about how bitcoin can be used for its intended purpose that is "A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash" to send "online payments (..) directly from one party to another".
Are people even willing to still follow these idea or is bitcoin doomed to be a place for profit gamblers that will slowly loose its relevance?

Everyone is doing what they know how to do. If you think of selling your holdings then go ahead because at this time no one is going to be pampered to keep holding when there are more users than really wants to buy Bitcoin and hold. We don't know when this is going to stop but it seems like the dip is going to go more deeper than what we have seen now and the market may take longer time before it recovers.

DooMAD

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People worry too much about what speculators get up to. Daytraders are often their own worst enemy. It's all panic buy, panic sell. Weak hands by their nature and invariably too easily spooked.

Those who believe in the technology are usually either hodlers or spenders. They are the ones who help maintain what little stability there is with the price. Try keeping the focus on the benefits, privacy/security/etc, which can be obtained by holding or spending. That's the real purpose and we shouldn't lose sight of that just because the speculators steal all the headlines in the media.

serjent05

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Quote from: hZti on January 01, 2023, 11:48:56 AM

Quote from: davis196 on January 01, 2023, 02:54:07 AM

Most of the posts in this forum are about the Bitcoin price because that's what 99% of the Bitcoiners are interested about.

Well that is the whole issue. Those 99% are not bitcoiners, those are investors. In my oppinion this forum should be used by the other 1 % to try and improve bitcoin as a payment solution as it was intended. Bitcoin is not simply an asset for your portfolio. It is more then that because it has a very useful purpose, but to fulfill it it needs constant improvements.

Without these investors, Bitcoin won't be noticed. Remember in order for a project or purpose to materialize it needs supporters. Even though these investors purpose it so make a profit, they still pour funds into the Bitcoin market making the market of Bitcoin strong and at the same time giving value to the coins where developers and miners can sell their Bitcoin and continue their operation. Bitcoin does not work like magic, in just one sway of a wand and all is good. People who are developing Bitcoin and miners need funds to develop and secure the network.

Btw, if you want to see a discussion on development, you won't find it in the Bitcoin discussion board, there is a dedicated board for that where they talk about development, suggestion, ect.. and there is another board for mining too. I think you need to navigate the forum more so that you can find what you are looking.

yhiaali3

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Quote from: hZti on December 31, 2022, 05:08:55 AM

. What I see less and less are post about how bitcoin can be used for its intended purpose that is "A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash" to send "online payments (..) directly from one party to another".

In my opinion, these two things are related to each other, meaning that Bitcoin cannot be used for its intended purpose unless there is a great relative stability in the price of Bitcoin.
On the other hand, the stability of the Bitcoin price will not happen unless there are large investments and government adoption of Bitcoin around the world.
When the price of Bitcoin stabilizes and government adoption occurs around the world, then Bitcoin can be used to send peer-to-peer online payments.
We may need another decade for that to happen.

Blawpaw

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Quote from: hZti on December 31, 2022, 05:08:55 AM

Day by day the bitcoin price is declining. It seems that the price these days is largely dictated by miners that constantly sell coins and investors that hope for future profits. That is also what most topics in this forum are about. What I see less and less are post about how bitcoin can be used for its intended purpose that is "A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash" to send "online payments (..) directly from one party to another".
Are people even willing to still follow these idea or is bitcoin doomed to be a place for profit gamblers that will slowly loose its relevance?

I don't think you are seeing things the right way. The current price of Bitcoin is a great opportunity of the market to grow. It gives space for many newcomers to gain interest and attract even more investors. As for the miners, they have to cover for expenses. I imagine that most individual miners are just selling bitcoin just to cover for expenses and the remaining Bitcoin, they are certainly hoarding. Even though the price is declining, most believe we will still see new highs for the asset Wink

Hyphen(-)

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Quote from: hZti on December 31, 2022, 05:08:55 AM

Day by day the bitcoin price is declining. It seems that the price these days is largely dictated by miners that constantly sell coins and investors that hope for future profits. That is also what most topics in this forum are about. What I see less and less are post about how bitcoin can be used for its intended purpose that is "A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash" to send "online payments (..) directly from one party to another".
Are people even willing to still follow these idea or is bitcoin doomed to be a place for profit gamblers that will slowly loose its relevance?

People have different perspectives on Bitcoin investment. Some people enjoy the process and put money in for future use because they believe Bitcoin will be adopted globally and accepted as a global means of exchange over time.

While some people call themselves investors because they buy Bitcoin for a short period of time and then sell it when the price rises, I believe those so-called investors are the reason why the price is not yet stable.
Let us hope that 2023 is a better year.

kryptqnick

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As the title says, Bitcoin is a tool that gives financial freedom. I don't see how this must correlate with Bitcoin being a great investment opportunity. What I'm saying is that the price can decline (although it's still very high and Bitcoin has always recovered from bear markets so far), but that doesn't change the nature of Bitcoin. It is still a decentralized form of money that anyone can use if they have a device (smartphone, PC) and Internet access. It is still something that can be stored for free in a wallet like Electrum, where you are the sole owner of your coins and nobody can take them away from you (unlike with banks). It's still a currency that doesn't belong to any country, is not issued by any authority, and the price of which is strictly determined by the market.

GeorgeJohn

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Quote from: hZti on December 31, 2022, 05:08:55 AM

Day by day the bitcoin price is declining. It seems that the price these days is largely dictated by miners that constantly sell coins and investors that hope for future profits. That is also what most topics in this forum are about. What I see less and less are post about how bitcoin can be used for its intended purpose that is "A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash" to send "online payments (..) directly from one party to another".
Are people even willing to still follow these idea or is bitcoin doomed to be a place for profit gamblers that will slowly loose its relevance?

Bitcoin have no constant rotation since the existence of bitcoin, and one thing is that Bitcoin going down in price is the determination of lack of investors coming in into the market of cryptocurrency, from my perspective i believe that Bitcoin will rise and it can accelerate when the price is of higher investors, the price depreciating is something that we do experience everyday and every time, so the market will determine it's relevant.

_BlackStar

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Quote from: vv181 on January 01, 2023, 02:48:08 PM

If we trying to grow bitcoin adoption to the masses, making this forum a specific echo chamber seems won't do anything significant. There exist other platforms that could potentially give more impression about bitcoin since they have a large reach.

While this forum won't have a significant impact on increasing adoption, but IMO, something big starts small. Some users on the forum are starting to consider adopting bitcoin as a means of payment, and will likely support more ongoing adoption efforts due to the growing interest in bitcoin among people.

But of course to reach a wider level of adoption we need to get more support from big businesses which will ultimately affect more adoption among small businesses and other services. It's difficult at the moment, but when the legality of bitcoin as a means of payment is legalized, there can be more and more adoptions.

vv181

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Quote from: hZti on January 01, 2023, 11:48:56 AM

Quote from: davis196 on January 01, 2023, 02:54:07 AM

Most of the posts in this forum are about the Bitcoin price because that's what 99% of the Bitcoiners are interested about.

Well that is the whole issue. Those 99% are not bitcoiners, those are investors. In my oppinion this forum should be used by the other 1 % to try and improve bitcoin as a payment solution as it was intended. Bitcoin is not simply an asset for your portfolio. It is more then that because it has a very useful purpose, but to fulfill it it needs constant improvements.

We can't force how people use this forum, and we should not limitate this forum to be made for a specific use case. Bitcoin deep technical discussion sometimes isn't on this forum, those developers are doing nothing wrong to choose more suitable platforms like IRC, mailing list or GitHub. IIRC, some developers once said that they left this forum since the aforementioned platform has a high barrier to entry thus the discussion is more constructive.

If we trying to grow bitcoin adoption to the masses, making this forum a specific echo chamber seems won't do anything significant. There exist other platforms that could potentially give more impression about bitcoin since they have a large reach.

The Cryptovator

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Honestly, it's a difficult question. Bitcoin is rarely used for the purpose intended when it was created. A few international brands accept Bitcoin only, and those involved in cryptocurrency works accept Bitcoin payments. The majority of people simply want to profit from Bitcoin investments. To be honest, I want to make money with Bitcoin as well, even though I accept Bitcoin payments for my work-related marketing. And, of course, when I hire someone for online work, I am willing to pay in cryptocurrency, which is much easier than fiat. So Bitcoin is still used as a payment method, but in smaller quantities.

_BlackStar

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Quote from: hZti on December 31, 2022, 05:08:55 AM

Day by day the bitcoin price is declining. It seems that the price these days is largely dictated by miners that constantly sell coins and investors that hope for future profits. That is also what most topics in this forum are about. What I see less and less are post about how bitcoin can be used for its intended purpose that is "A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash" to send "online payments (..) directly from one party to another".
Are people even willing to still follow these idea or is bitcoin doomed to be a place for profit gamblers that will slowly loose its relevance?

Don't worry, the adoption of bitcoin as a means of payment is sure to increase over time in the foreseeable future. I don't think the selling that some people make to cover the cost of mining or whatever it takes them to sell is not a measure that bitcoin is not serving its purpose as a currency. On the other hand, adoption is still constrained by government regulations, but what is clear is that in some countries this adoption continues to be encouraged and continues to grow to the smallest business.

Look how suddenly we heard that some Nigerian bitcoin users started adopting it as a means of payment in their personal businesses. Even if they realize bitcoin is not legal as a means of payment in their country, they are brave enough to adopt it.

klidex

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Quote from: lionheart78 on January 01, 2023, 01:55:09 PM

Quote from: hZti on December 31, 2022, 05:08:55 AM

Day by day the bitcoin price is declining. It seems that the price these days is largely dictated by miners that constantly sell coins and investors that hope for future profits. That is also what most topics in this forum are about. What I see less and less are post about how bitcoin can be used for its intended purpose that is "A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash" to send "online payments (..) directly from one party to another".
Are people even willing to still follow these idea or is bitcoin doomed to be a place for profit gamblers that will slowly loose its relevance?

Obviously the price of Bitcoin on the market is greatly affected by supply and demand. The market is supplied by freshly mined Bitcoin, there is nothing new to that, and being bought by speculative investors. Isn't the Bitcoin price trend like that since the beginning?

The thing you called electronic transfer had been used during this trade so what are you whining about? There are also more stores that accept Bitcoin as a mode of payment even countries that recognized it as a legal tender and mode of payment.

A declining price doesn't mean that Bitcoin's supposedly function isn't practiced anymore, in fact, it is well used because you cannot trade or sell your Bitcoin without transferring them or creating a transaction so that buyers can receive your sold Bitcoin.

It is true that the supply and demand for Bitcoin in the market greatly affect the price of Bitcoin itself.
This is because Bitcoin is the most popular and most popular cryptocurrency asset in the world.
Meanwhile, the total supply which is very limited and almost exhausted can make Bitcoin survive, at least it is still the cryptocurrency with the highest price and in every future decline in Bitcoin prices, it still has the opportunity to rise more than before.
It's no wonder that many investors who hold Bitcoin keep holding it even though the price has dropped dramatically.

lionheart78

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Quote from: hZti on December 31, 2022, 05:08:55 AM

Day by day the bitcoin price is declining. It seems that the price these days is largely dictated by miners that constantly sell coins and investors that hope for future profits. That is also what most topics in this forum are about. What I see less and less are post about how bitcoin can be used for its intended purpose that is "A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash" to send "online payments (..) directly from one party to another".
Are people even willing to still follow these idea or is bitcoin doomed to be a place for profit gamblers that will slowly loose its relevance?

Obviously the price of Bitcoin on the market is greatly affected by supply and demand. The market is supplied by freshly mined Bitcoin, there is nothing new to that, and being bought by speculative investors. Isn't the Bitcoin price trend like that since the beginning?

The thing you called electronic transfer had been used during this trade so what are you whining about? There are also more stores that accept Bitcoin as a mode of payment even countries that recognized it as a legal tender and mode of payment.

A declining price doesn't mean that Bitcoin's supposedly function isn't practiced anymore, in fact, it is well used because you cannot trade or sell your Bitcoin without transferring them or creating a transaction so that buyers can receive your sold Bitcoin.

hZti

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Quote from: davis196 on January 01, 2023, 02:54:07 AM

Most of the posts in this forum are about the Bitcoin price because that's what 99% of the Bitcoiners are interested about.

Well that is the whole issue. Those 99% are not bitcoiners, those are investors. In my oppinion this forum should be used by the other 1 % to try and improve bitcoin as a payment solution as it was intended. Bitcoin is not simply an asset for your portfolio. It is more then that because it has a very useful purpose, but to fulfill it it needs constant improvements.

davis196

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Quote from: hZti on December 31, 2022, 05:08:55 AM

Day by day the bitcoin price is declining. It seems that the price these days is largely dictated by miners that constantly sell coins and investors that hope for future profits. That is also what most topics in this forum are about. What I see less and less are post about how bitcoin can be used for its intended purpose that is "A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash" to send "online payments (..) directly from one party to another".
Are people even willing to still follow these idea or is bitcoin doomed to be a place for profit gamblers that will slowly loose its relevance?

I wouldn't say that the Bitcoin price is "declining day by day". There were several price drops, but the price right now is kinda stable at 15-16K USD. Maybe it will drop below 10K USD, but the real HODLers don't care that much about future price drops.
Most of the posts in this forum are about the Bitcoin price because that's what 99% of the Bitcoiners are interested about.
If you wanna use Bitcoin for it's intended purpose, just use it. It's no rocket science to setup a cold wallet and send/receive Bitcoins directly.
Do we really need a thousand tutorials about such a simple thing on the forum?
The "profit gamblers" aren't investing in Bitcoin only, they invest in the stocks markets, FOREX, precious metals, etc. The entire global finance is "casino capitalism", but only Bitcoin is being blamed for being a "gambling tool". This seems unfair to me.

mk4

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Quote from: hZti on December 31, 2022, 12:28:39 PM

That is true, the issue is that people even after the 2018 bear didn't really ever start to get bitcoin back in the right direction. Basically everything after 2018 was just a hype because of high prices and not because there was a fundamental progress. It is obvious that prices can go up again, simply because bitcoin is limited to a specific number. The question is, just how sustainable this rise could be if there are no fundamentals to support it Huh

How do you even know for sure if a price increase was caused by hype or fundamentals? Also, how is the increase from 2016-2017 not caused by hype? If anything, the 2017 bull was far more hype-ish.

yudi09

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It depends on how those who own Bitcoin use it. Most novice investors cannot afford a price situation that continues to decline. Indirectly, the high sales trend that may be carried out by miners is one of the causes of all this.
For me, a situation like this is similar to what happened in 2018. I agree with the statement that many of us have the wrong pattern.

Apart from all that, I think choosing to hold in the long term is still something we should do.

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Quote from: hZti on December 31, 2022, 12:28:39 PM

Quote from: mk4 on December 31, 2022, 11:35:44 AM

Quote from: hZti on December 31, 2022, 05:08:55 AM

Are people even willing to still follow these idea or is bitcoin doomed to be a place for profit gamblers that will slowly loose its relevance?

I've seen a lot of similar statements from the 2018 bear. Look where we are now.

That is true, the issue is that people even after the 2018 bear didn't really ever start to get bitcoin back in the right direction. Basically everything after 2018 was just a hype because of high prices and not because there was a fundamental progress. It is obvious that prices can go up again, simply because bitcoin is limited to a specific number. The question is, just how sustainable this rise could be if there are no fundamentals to support it Huh

Bitcoin is mostly being used as investment by people who want to escape the devaluation of the fiat currencies, what is also a very useful feature of bitcoin, besides being a digital boardless currency. It's not all about speculative profits, but also fundamentals, and fighting inflation and money's devaluation is one of them.

Right now the situation isn't that good, it's true, but there are external factors which are causing it. Furthermore, we can't live in bullish market forever. There are cycles following each other. We have to be patient and wait for this cycle to finish. The important is that bitcoin isn't losing importance, because we are still at 16,000$ price range, despite so many negative news and thefts this year which made investors lose billions of dollars in cryptocurrencies.

ven7net

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Quote from: hZti on December 31, 2022, 05:08:55 AM

Day by day the bitcoin price is declining. It seems that the price these days is largely dictated by miners that constantly sell coins and investors that hope for future profits. That is also what most topics in this forum are about. What I see less and less are post about how bitcoin can be used for its intended purpose that is "A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash" to send "online payments (..) directly from one party to another".
Are people even willing to still follow these idea or is bitcoin doomed to be a place for profit gamblers that will slowly loose its relevance?

As the practice of several years shows, Bitcoin has recommended itself well as a new asset of savings and fundraising. As for the means of payment, everything is much worse here, because exchange rate stability is important for making payments, and the price of Bitcoin is very volatile, so there is no that important adoption that many were waiting for. But he will not be discouraged, because it is possible in the future that everything will change for the better both for Bitcoin and the entire crypto community.

Topic: What is left of Bitcoin as a tool to free the financial world (Read 234 times)