What is minimum safe amount of fee that can be set manually in Electrum wallet?

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: WLtoys V912 on August 03, 2020, 03:22:01 PM

This is what I understand from the graph. Correct me if I'm wrong.

This is correct. You can get a more accurate feel for things if you mouse over the very right hand side of the graph, as shown in the picture that BitCryptex shared.

As you can see from that picture, when you mouse over it tells you the sum of all the values above each band. So although there are 37.839 MB of transactions in the mempool, only 1.859 MB of them pay more than 2 sats/vbyte.

If you want to be confirmed within the next block, then I usually aim to pay within 0.1 MB of the tip of the mempool. In BitCryptex's picture, that would be 170 sats/vbyte. However, a fee of only 80 sats/vbyte would put you within 1 MB, and 2 sats vbyte would put you with 2 MB, which are both fairly good bets for getting confirmed soon.

Using this graph also lets you see the recent trend of the mempool. If it is rapidly filling up, then you'll need to pay higher than you otherwise would for a rapid confirmation. Conversely, if you see it steadily emptying, then you might be able to pay lower and still be confirmed relatively quickly.

WLtoys V912

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Thanks for your explanations.
This concept seems more complicated than I expected but I will tell what I have understood.

According to what you said and what I see in the mempool graph (I mean the picture I uploaded myself), the biggest colored band is BLUE. It means most unconfirmed transactions are related to those who have chosen between 1 and 8 sat/byte for their transactions. So, if I choose this range of fees, my transaction takes longer to be confirmed by a miner.
In addition to this, the YELLOW color seems to have a small band which means it includes a small number of unconfirmed transactions (compared with BLUE band). So, if I choose anything between 80 and 140 sat/byte I have a much bigger chance to receive confirmation faster.

This is what I understand from the graph. Correct me if I'm wrong.

o_e_l_e_o

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Scroll down to point 5 on this post (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/make-sure-to-avoid-wasting-btc-for-too-high-fees-step-by-step-guide-electrum-5182906) and have a read for a good explanation of how to read the graph you've linked. Also read the text at the bottom of the page the graph is on.

Each colored band represents a fee rate in sats/vbyte.
The size of each colored band represents the total size in megabytes of all the unconfirmed transactions which are paying that rate.
The graph slowly increases over time as more transactions are broadcast and added to the mempool. Whenever a block is found, there is a sudden decrease in the graph as a chunk of transactions are confirmed and therefore removed from the mempool.

Quote from: Rath_ on August 03, 2020, 01:22:56 PM

Blocks usually take from 1,2 MB to 1,6 MB of space. So, according to this image, if you sent a transaction paying 4 sat/byte or more, it would very likely confirm in the next block.

This graph shows the virtual size, not the true size, so blocks will take a maximum of 1 MB. This is explained at the bottom of the page:

Quote from: https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/

So for the BTC and LTC chains, a block will always take at most 1 MB from the mempool, even if it is bigger than 1 MB, because the lower diagram already shows the size in vbyte (with the segwit discount included).

Rath_

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Quote from: WLtoys V912 on August 03, 2020, 12:43:27 PM

As you said, I have to choose my fees based on mempool statistical data. How can I read the chart? What do the numbers on the vertical column mean?

The vertical column tells which color on the graph represents the specified fee range. It's not really convenient to read from it. If you hover your mouse over the chart, you will see more detailed data for each fee range at a specified time.

~~Blocks usually take from 1,2 MB to 1,6 MB of space.~~ In this case, we take the virtual size of the block which is 1 MB. So, according to this image, if you sent a transaction paying 80 sat/byte or more, it would very likely confirm in the next block. The interval between blocks is 10 minutes on average. You should also take into account that sometimes there could be no new block found for the next 30-40 minutes which could result in much higher fee needed to confirm your transaction in one block.

WLtoys V912

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 03, 2020, 02:40:22 PM

Quote from: WLtoys V912 on June 03, 2020, 01:22:04 PM

Can I use lightning network to solve this problem and send my BTC as fast as possible before the exchange rate drops?

The simplest option for you to avoid this kind of scenario in the future is to click "Customize Fee" within your Blockchain.com wallet, and pick a fee yourself based on how full the mempool is, rather than just accepting the fee that Blockchain.com tells you to use. Automated fee algorithms are notoriously inaccurate.

This seems like a practical solution. Could you please explain a little about mempool charts in the following website?

https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#1,24h

As you said, I have to choose my fees based on mempool statistical data. How can I read the chart? What do the numbers on the vertical column mean?

Wind_FURY

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I believe that there should be topics/guides about "Fees, and how to know how high to play the miners", pinned in the main Bitcoin forum, Bitcoin Technical Support, and Beginners/Help subforums.

A new generation of Bitcoin newbies will be arriving soon. Cool

Rath_

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Quote from: HCP on June 04, 2020, 04:32:41 AM

Well... currently, it's constrained more by amounts than anything else. Trying to find paths through channels that allow sending of more than 50k-100k sats can be problematic Sad

As long as you are connected to a well-connected node or have multiple active channels, you can split your payment into multiple smaller parts. All implementations now support this feature; some clients need to be updated, though.

HCP

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Well... currently, it's constrained more by amounts than anything else. Trying to find paths through channels that allow sending of more than 50k-100k sats can be problematic Sad

pooya87

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Quote from: HCP on June 03, 2020, 05:23:36 PM

Lightning is really aimed at micro-transactions for a few dollars.

i don't think that's true.
Lightning Network is mostly about the number of transactions not the amount. meaning if you want to send a micro transaction you still have to use on-chain transactions, because it would cost you more to use LN. but if you want to send hundreds of transactions (no matter their value) then LN is the best choice.

HCP

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Quote from: WLtoys V912 on June 03, 2020, 01:22:04 PM

Can I use lightning network to solve this problem and send my BTC as fast as possible before the exchange rate drops?

Also, note that lightning generally isn't suitable for sending "large" amounts... for one, it is still in "beta" and putting in large amounts has a higher risk... also, most channels only hold a few hundred thousand sats at most... so, you'll generally only be able to send $10's of $ of value... rather than $100's or $1000's.

Lightning is really aimed at micro-transactions for a few dollars.

Sadly, the fees charged by most exchanges will eat into small dollar transactions quite significantly. Undecided

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: WLtoys V912 on June 03, 2020, 01:22:04 PM

Can I use lightning network to solve this problem and send my BTC as fast as possible before the exchange rate drops?

If the exchange you are using accepts Lightning payments, then yes, you could send your bitcoin via Lightning and have it arrive almost instantly. Blockchain.com does not support this though, so you will need to look in to using another wallet. Lightning channels also need funded in advance by making a standard on-chain transaction, so you can't take advantage of a sudden price surge to sell immediately unless you have planned ahead and have your bitcoin already in an open channel.

The simplest option for you to avoid this kind of scenario in the future is to click "Customize Fee" within your Blockchain.com wallet, and pick a fee yourself based on how full the mempool is, rather than just accepting the fee that Blockchain.com tells you to use. Automated fee algorithms are notoriously inaccurate.

WLtoys V912

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Can I use lightning network to solve this problem and send my BTC as fast as possible before the exchange rate drops?

mocacinno

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https://merel.mobi => buy facemasks with BTC/LTC

Quote from: WLtoys V912 on June 03, 2020, 05:24:51 AM

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 03, 2020, 05:07:47 AM

Since you are sending from a Blockchain.com wallet, the option of speeding up your transaction using RBF is not available to you. Who were you sending the coins to? The recipient could perform a CPFP transaction if you are in a hurry for the transaction to confirm, although this will incur a cost. If the transaction is not urgent, then just be patient.

Thanks for your fast and helpful support.
Actually, I wanted to convert some of my BTC to USD through an online exchanger. They gave me a wallet address for sending BTC. I sent them my BTC when it was $10.084! The problem is that BTC fell to $9600 today and my transaction has not been confirmed yet. This long waiting time made some losses for me. I placed my order at $10K but I don't know how much I will receive in my Perfect Money USD account. They should be really generous to calculate my conversion based on yesterday's exchange rates.
Maybe I'm lucky enough and at the time of confirmation, BTC rises again to $10K!

If it was a "traditional" exchange (not an on-the-fly-no-kyc-needed exchange) , usually, you get a deposit address, and as soon as a transaction funding this deposit address is confirmed, they let you trade at current market conditions...

This has it's upside: you can fund the address they generated for you with a tx with a 1 sat/byte fee, it doesn't matter if it takes days (or weeks) to confirm... However, if you chose a low fee and your transaction remains unconfirmed at the "perfect" trading time, you won't be able to make the trade.

Things are a bit different with those on-the-fly exchanges that don't require you to create an account, these exchanges usually give you a limited amount of time to fund the deposit address, but they usually do guarantee a certain exchange rate (albeit, it's usually higher than with the "traditional" exchanges)

WLtoys V912

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 03, 2020, 05:07:47 AM

Since you are sending from a Blockchain.com wallet, the option of speeding up your transaction using RBF is not available to you. Who were you sending the coins to? The recipient could perform a CPFP transaction if you are in a hurry for the transaction to confirm, although this will incur a cost. If the transaction is not urgent, then just be patient.

Thanks for your fast and helpful support.
Actually, I wanted to convert some of my BTC to USD through an online exchanger. They gave me a wallet address for sending BTC. I sent them my BTC when it was $10.084! The problem is that BTC fell to $9600 today and my transaction has not been confirmed yet. This long waiting time made some losses for me. I placed my order at $10K but I don't know how much I will receive in my Perfect Money USD account. They should be really generous to calculate my conversion based on yesterday's exchange rates.
Maybe I'm lucky enough and at the time of confirmation, BTC rises again to $10K!

o_e_l_e_o

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Yes, this is normal. No, there is nothing to panic about. You just have to wait a bit longer.

In the last 24 hours, the mempool has never fully cleared, and although plenty of 2 sat/byte transactions have confirmed here have always been at least a few hundred transactions with a fee of 2 sat/byte waiting to be confirmed. Your transaction has been one of the unlucky ones which hasn't yet been picked by a miner. 2 sat/byte transactions are now 4 MB from the tip, and the mempool is starting to fill again as it usually does around this time of the day. In all likelihood the earliest you will get confirmed now is in around 16 hours, but you may be waiting a few days yet.

Since you are sending from a Blockchain.com wallet, the option of speeding up your transaction using RBF is not available to you. Who were you sending the coins to? The recipient could perform a CPFP transaction if you are in a hurry for the transaction to confirm, although this will incur a cost. If the transaction is not urgent, then just be patient.

WLtoys V912

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Yesterday, I sent some BTC from my Blockchain wallet to another address. This time I chose 2 sat/byte instead of 1. However, 24 hours have passed since then and it is still unconfirmed! Not even 1 confirmation!
Is this normal? Has it ever happened to you? I'm starting to panic! Embarrassed

What will happen to my fund?

o_e_l_e_o

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Yeah, if you take a look at the mempool graphs viewable on this page (https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#1,24h), you will see that the mempool has been pretty full for the last 8-12 hours, and only in the last hour or so has it finally emptied. As nc50lc has said, I suspect your transaction will now have confirmed, as the last 4 blocks all emptied the mempool down to less than 0.1 MB of pending transactions.

If it still hasn't confirmed for some reason, then post the transaction ID here so we can take a look at it.

nc50lc

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Self-proclaimed Genius

There's nothing wrong with your transaction.

Currently, 1sat/B is almost at the 2mB+ range (within 1mb is the priority) and there's a good chance for it to be included to a block within this hour
(if blocks aren't too delayed and more transaction wont flood in).

Past 4-8 hours's mempool size is worse.

WLtoys V912

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on March 11, 2020, 04:33:58 PM

Quote from: WLtoys V912 on March 11, 2020, 04:29:57 PM

Can I close Electrum wallet and shut down my PC now?

Absolutely. Once your transaction has been broadcast to the network, there is no need to keep your wallet open or your PC on.

You can check that it has been broadcast successfully by looking up the transaction on a block explorer. In the "History" tab in Electrum, right click on the transaction you just made and click on "View on block explorer". It should load a web page which shows your transaction and shows that is has zero confirmations. If you can see your transaction on this web page, then it means it has been broadcast and is waiting to be mined. You can shut everything down, go to bed, and when you wake up tomorrow it will very likely have been confirmed.

Thanks again for your help.
Now, after about 8 hours it is still unconfirmed (0 confirmation). Should I wait more or is something wrong with my transaction? Is it because of busy network?

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: WLtoys V912 on March 11, 2020, 04:29:57 PM

Can I close Electrum wallet and shut down my PC now?

Absolutely. Once your transaction has been broadcast to the network, there is no need to keep your wallet open or your PC on.

You can check that it has been broadcast successfully by looking up the transaction on a block explorer. In the "History" tab in Electrum, right click on the transaction you just made and click on "View on block explorer". It should load a web page which shows your transaction and shows that is has zero confirmations. If you can see your transaction on this web page, then it means it has been broadcast and is waiting to be mined. You can shut everything down, go to bed, and when you wake up tomorrow it will very likely have been confirmed.

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