Topic: What is the acceptable level of premine for bounties? (Read 1797 times)

I love how people make up these arbitrary numbers as though there were any real rationale behind them. "I John Doe hereby decree that anyone who makes a coin is entitled to 1/10 of a percent of the coin cap. No more, no less. This is my will and you must obey."

Right.

Depending on what the coin dev wants to develop. If just for his/her own bounties, 0.1% will be fair.

If there is a real and good business plan to promote and maintain a coin, 5% still can be acceptable.

You forget about the magic powers of hindsight.

Well I don't think anyone is arguing that scammers should be rewarded but unfortunately it's not always so easy to tell which coins are going to be straight up scams and/or which coins are going to be abandoned early by the devs. And sometimes, a coin is abandoned not because it was a scam all along, but simply because the dev got frustrated that it wasn't taking off, or he was just in over his head.

I don't think percentage of premine, or the fact that a pre-mine occurred, is a valid criteria to assess whether a coin is a scamcoin or not.

Case in point - look at flappy coin. This was most definitely NOT a scam. The dev did not pre-mine and there is a massive community around it. But yet the dev basically disappeared/gave up and the coin shot down to near-death over a period of weeks. So, the fact that there is no pre-mine really doesn't tell you whether a coin is going to suck and/or be abandoned.

(As an aside, a new dev has taken over flappy and is trying to breathe life back into it.)

Bingo.  Even if person premined 50% and he created alot of value everybody wins. Also each person can decide what is acceptable for him/her

Satoshi is not a scammer, he created a new coin from scratch.

its a fact that 99.99% of altcoins are scams or clones of incompetence that just survive with marketing and their sock puppets.

The real devs (0.01%) who know their stuff deserve to be rewarded for their efforts but not those who make this wave of shitcoins.

Einsteinium have this. 2% sent to a fund and 0.5% sent to the devs of every block mined

And depressing to me. We always, always have to re-learn the same lesson the hard way: "fair" distributions always create a tragedy of the commons. That's why the "free and fair" fad will fade.

Also, it is worth considering that the current environment - one of hostility toward devs making any kind of a profit - is not terribly conducive to drawing talented individuals into the crypto world. How do you think Apple and Google recruit the best programmers? By promising them sunshine and rainbows and a chance to break their back making the world a better place for free? Um, no. It's called a massive paycheck.

VERY well said, dude.

As for the guy who said a coin should be treated like a charity.... what fucking planet is he from!?! It's like suggesting that all miners donate all their mined coins to a charity fund. We all know how likely that is to happen...

I just don't understand why miners think it's their god-given right to reap the rewards of somebody else's time, hard work and innovation. 

Well I will add to this, I am also doing pro-bono work for two other coins because their devs disappeared, I have 0 vested interest no coins even, they were in terrible situation no available source codes straightening out their github, provide free server support on Marinecoin cloud servers, seed nodes etc and giving free advice are also what I do, the major problem is that average dev in this community is an a**hole. This needs to change.

I would be completely on board for something like that. But how would you stop them from continuing to collect payments if they just walked away from the coin? Carboncoin, flappy, stories, NYCoin, and like a million others right now are dealing with replacing the devs as the original ones disappeared or just effectively stopped working.

Understanding that good dev should be rewarded, why not instead of creating a premine, having a %tage of the reward of each block sent to the dev ?

Right hard coded.  It would probably require that it is paid to the public key of the dev.

The point is that there is nothing stopping some other dev from forking the coin to one with no payout.  Users would have to decide which branch to support.

If the paid dev is doing a good job, they might decide to stay on the paying branch.

I am the developer of Marinecoin so far I can safely say I spent over 100 BTC out of my own pocket, buy hey who is counting.
I am about to move Marinecoin into an office, because my wife is finally kicking me out of the house, pay rent hiring two programmers for extra help paid of course with real salary and a secretary, mninum requirements for now.
Running banners over the internet, constant code upgrades to the wallet and other projects that I am working on. with 4-5 hours of sleep a day the past 6 months just working on the Marinecoin project..
I paid over 10 BTC just last week to outsource mining hash power to get Marinecoin out of a difficulty spike.

I am fortunate enough to pay those things out my pocket, but to pay for them indefinitely without any support from the eco-system itself eventually should be considered insane.

Marinecoin Dev

I would accept coins with a premine of less than 0,1% in the case of coins with fixed cap, and 0,05% of the estimated supply after 1 year in case of coins with no fixed cap (e.g. PoW/PoS hybrids). 1% is way too much in my opinion (think of a multi-million market cap at bubbles), but I would not only accept 0.0000000%-premined coins.

It's really funny to me to see all these replies that are like OMG OMG NO THAT'S BS! NO PREMINE! So far, the general argument is that they should not do pre-mines because they should just do it for free. Some douche even compared it to 'charity work' which was a real laugh for me.

News flash: there are no rules. If you don't like pre-mines, then you don't have to support those coins. Only problem is all you retards love btc and that was pre-mined like a motherfucker so you're basically a bunch of whining hypocrites.

Look I'm not a dev I just think it's insane that you people consider it somehow wrong or evil for a developer to want a return on something they built if it becomes successful. Are you all fucking socialists or something? I guess I just grew up with this silly notion that if someone creates something and it becomes successful, then they should get a good chunk of profit from that. Crazy me!

Also, if you notice, a lot of 'no pre-mine' coins were manipulated in some other way - either by instamining, or somewhat shady launch tactics enabling the dev and/or his friends to quickly mine some early blocks before the general population can begin, or even manipulating the price down and encouraging an early crash so the dev can buy in for pennies.

Just think about this logically for a second - if the developer has no vested interest in seeing the coin succeed and grow in value, how long is he going to hang around and keep fixing issues and supporting the coin?

That's a very good idea but has to be hard coded in to the client, very good. it must be in such a way that even the pools modify their code the peer2peer network would reject the solved blocks by the dishonest pools.

+1

Having x% of the minting fee going to the original dev would create the right incentives.  The more successful the coin, the more valuable that 1%.

You could even set it up so that it is 1% starting 3 months from launch.  If another dev creates a modified client, then it shows that the 1% wasn't really needed in the first place.

Of course you would say that. And it's usually the opposite. They dump the coins they premined and move on to the next shitcoin.