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Topic: What is the best way to destroy bitcoin? (Read 5270 times)

legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1016
Strength in numbers
July 13, 2012, 01:35:37 AM
#63
...just thought of another way bitcoin might get destroyed...

What if Satoshi isn't gone... What if he is here, working on the protocol, client or a BTC business in our midst...and holds a few million Bitcoins...and we all realized our efforts at promoting bitcoin were only serving to keep the price up while he sold his coins....

Please note, there is no fact here...there is nothing to suggest this is true.

Well.. if it is going up insanely fast while Satoshi is unloading it'll really get interesting when he's finished.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
Eliminate 40+% (two or three points) of centralized accumulation in the form of wallet, therefore BTC, destruction, preferably after the reward halving.  Repeat until reserves are exhausted and only p2p trades are "reliable".

Watch the destruction of any economy, especially fragile fledgelings.

All that would be needed to counter this is an extension past 8 decimal expansion. As computing power progresses, older keys can be cracked, thus restoring access to 'destroyed' bitcoins.

Pollyanna would assert that the divisibility of btc would merely shift the decimal point after such a catastrophe, but there is no traditional economy upon which to base the value of BTC.  Every government that has followed this path has been declared a 'failed economy'.

None have ever relied upon market forces to adapt their currency value, neither have they ever shifted the decimal to the right - only to the left. Gold was the only form of money to accomplish this, and economies based on the gold standard only destabilized because of limited practical divisibility.

hazek is right, most of Bitcoin's value derives from its convertability with fiat money exchanges. If this goes, so does lots of its value as well as usefulness.

The comparison with alcohol or other drugs is idiotic because these goods' value derives from its consumption, not from convertibility with anything. Therefore, when production cost rises due to legislation, the price in the longer term will have to rise too, or else it cannot be profitable to produce.

Actually, notme is more right in the long-term. Currently, association with value is highly related to exchange rates, the most prevalent being the US dollar. As the Bitcoin economy grows, it will become less dependent upon external metrics and be used as a measure of wealth itself. That is simply a change from items being priced in $ to being denominated in BTC.

As for the comparison, it is not entirely accurate, but it is still very valid. The incentive for use can be far greater than the legal risk, resulting in elevated demand. If there is anything that can be supplied to meet the demand while returning sufficient profit for the risk, it will be provided. Money is no different, it just has a more nebulous use case because it is universal. For an example, just look at any country with a deteriorating domestic currency which outlawed the US dollar or gold, yet experienced rising use of them among the population.

All of the other methods so far have been too 'centric' - as in, focused on a country or region. Cultural, societal, and even genetic variations guarantee that you can't fool everyone all of the time. If Bitcoin continues to be seen an improvement over what exists now, it will keep growing no matter the opposition. Period.

Targeting the developers might be more effective; attacking the vulnerable pseudo-head instead of the amorphous body. Until Bitcoin is at a point where usage is widespread enough that most people are familiar with it, and no new technical threats are both foreseeable and realistically feasible, there are a number of ways to erode but not destroy the system.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1016
Strength in numbers
I don't have tips for destroying Bitcoin, but if you want to destroy a bitcoin send to 1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE.
legendary
Activity: 4536
Merit: 3188
Vile Vixen and Miss Bitcointalk 2021-2023
...just thought of another way bitcoin might get destroyed...

What if Satoshi isn't gone... What if he is here, working on the protocol, client or a BTC business in our midst...and holds a few million Bitcoins...and we all realized our efforts at promoting bitcoin were only serving to keep the price up while he sold his coins....

Please note, there is no fact here...there is nothing to suggest this is true.

How would that destroy Bitcoin? The network will continue functioning as normal. The price would take a hit, but will quickly stabilise. In fact, anyone not closely following the price might not even notice that anything unusual had happened. The only real effect would be that Satoshi suddenly becomes several million dollars richer - and in my opinion, he's earned every cent of it.
donator
Activity: 1464
Merit: 1047
I outlived my lifetime membership:)
Oh, and I hope this isn't necroposting...I don't want a text laden image of a creepy guy reprimanding me.
donator
Activity: 1464
Merit: 1047
I outlived my lifetime membership:)
...just thought of another way bitcoin might get destroyed...

What if Satoshi isn't gone... What if he is here, working on the protocol, client or a BTC business in our midst...and holds a few million Bitcoins...and we all realized our efforts at promoting bitcoin were only serving to keep the price up while he sold his coins....

Please note, there is no fact here...there is nothing to suggest this is true.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
Three little words...

Eeee Emm Pee.

Maybe that should be...
Tee Eeee Emm Pee Eee Ssss Teeee Wink

/ThinFoilHatOFF
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.
I take "destroy" to mean a near-zero market-cap and no real use of Bitcoin. Legislation and other forms of suppression can't achieve that, though they would drive the price down.

1. The most likely way Bitcoin could be destroyed would be the release and adoption of a superior protocol that serves the same purposes as Bitcoin. I'd put the probability of this happening in the next five years at over 10%.

2. Some emergent behavior of mining incentives makes it easier for some entity to control the block chain. Maybe mining pools get huge. Maybe mining gets taken over by specialized hardware.

3. Some cryptographic flaw in the protocol is discovered. (Seems very unlikely at this point.)

History shows making things illegal makes their price go up, not down.

That's a bit of an ignorant observation to the demand side of the supply/demand equation that determines a price. It's a hell of a lot different to make something illegal that it being illegal likely isn't going to diminish it's demand than it is to make something illegal that it being illegal is very likely to severely diminish it's demand.

I find it unlikely demand will be diminished long term.  It may take time for everyone to move to TOR/I2P/Etc., but its usefulness won't be damaged, just the barrier to entry.
Alcohol has exactly the same effect on your  brain, regardless of its legal status. The usefulness of bitcoin can and will be damaged if bitcoin businesses are having legal problems. That is an important distinction. You might be using btc over tor/i2p to trade on SR, but bitcoin can and currently does much more.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
As for Bitcoin, despite the proof of work, it still has no intrinsic or legal value.  Its value as an economy is 99+% conversion to fiat and <1% buying btc-related items, plus the random Lada or two on the Russian forum.  As you say, it's only a value store if it can be converted.

In my thoughts regarding elimination of 2-3 points of concentration of this activity, Gox would definitely be the most visible and most immediately disruptive.  Given the captive nature of fiat currency in that system, one could eliminate much of the popular "wealth" in about ninety seconds.

Pollyanna would assert that the divisibility of btc would merely shift the decimal point after such a catastrophe, but there is no traditional economy upon which to base the value of BTC.  Every government that has followed this path has been declared a 'failed economy'.
Indeed. I keep hearing about a "Bitcoin economy", while in reality, this is simply not the case, similarly to it being a "currency". Bitcoins are first and foremost a speculative asset and only secondarily a sort of intermediary for fiat on both sides (see Silk Road), while the quoted prices are typically from MtGox, and updated live. Your Bitcoins have no (or very little) actual value besides the fiat value attributed to it via exchanges.

Now, for the event these exchanges fall, we have a huge problem: As long as there are no relatively popular goods/services actually providing a "backing" for BTC by setting sticky prices (which they adhere to), no arbitrage can occur from the fiat world to raise the Bitcoin value and set a floor, since buying in Bitcoins would be cheaper if their price goes down. Furthermore, to have any sort of economy, the majority of market participants need to receive their wages in Bitcoins, not fiat money.

I know this is nearly impossible to change since there is simply no Bitcoin nation, society or even village, and because Bitcoin excels only in internet transactions, but it amazes me when people hype stuff like Bit-Pay's recent spike in transactions due to BFL sales and a "major" Euro flight into Bitcoins as if it were indicative of any sort of economy.

Why would all the exchanges fall at once?

Also, I've received wages in Bitcoin.

Naysay all you want.  In the mean time others are creating this economy, and we don't even mind if your speculative bets benefit.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 502
ASIC... (sorry, I do not speak English ..) https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.989113   and the rest of the text ..
N12
donator
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1010
As for Bitcoin, despite the proof of work, it still has no intrinsic or legal value.  Its value as an economy is 99+% conversion to fiat and <1% buying btc-related items, plus the random Lada or two on the Russian forum.  As you say, it's only a value store if it can be converted.

In my thoughts regarding elimination of 2-3 points of concentration of this activity, Gox would definitely be the most visible and most immediately disruptive.  Given the captive nature of fiat currency in that system, one could eliminate much of the popular "wealth" in about ninety seconds.

Pollyanna would assert that the divisibility of btc would merely shift the decimal point after such a catastrophe, but there is no traditional economy upon which to base the value of BTC.  Every government that has followed this path has been declared a 'failed economy'.
Indeed. I keep hearing about a "Bitcoin economy", while in reality, this is simply not the case, similarly to it being a "currency". Bitcoins are first and foremost a speculative asset and only secondarily a sort of intermediary for fiat on both sides (see Silk Road), while the quoted prices are typically from MtGox, and updated live. Your Bitcoins have no (or very little) actual value besides the fiat value attributed to it via exchanges.

Now, for the event these exchanges fall, we have a huge problem: As long as there are no relatively popular goods/services actually providing a "backing" for BTC by setting sticky prices (which they adhere to), no arbitrage can occur from the fiat world to raise the Bitcoin value and set a floor, since buying in Bitcoins would be cheaper if their price goes down. Furthermore, to have any sort of economy, the majority of market participants need to receive their wages in Bitcoins, not fiat money.

I know this is nearly impossible to change since there is simply no Bitcoin nation, society or even village, and because Bitcoin excels only in internet transactions, but it amazes me when people hype stuff like Bit-Pay's recent spike in transactions due to BFL sales and a "major" Euro flight into Bitcoins as if it were indicative of any sort of economy.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
buy all the coins
delete wallet!

wait no that wont work  Cheesy

http://blockchain.info/fb/1dkybe
Someone already has 5% of all BTC Smiley
legendary
Activity: 945
Merit: 1003
Best way to destroy bitcoin:

Refuse to trade with it, mine it and do nothing else other than sell your gains

Agreed!

I've opened a thread on how we best strengthen Bitcoin (= get more real Bitcoin economy going)
 https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/whats-the-best-way-to-strengthen-bitcoin-90973
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Keeping backups on CD's here and heard some usb pen drives have extra shielding that help withstand a magnetic pulse.

What pen drives are these as I'd like to protect all my data from an EMP

If there are EMPs occurring, the resilient pen drives will be worth far more than the resultant value of any bitcoins after that event occurs.  (If for no other reason than the gold content of the electronics inside ... :-) )

Didn't see one, but i'm sure some devices encased in Permalloy or Mu-metal exist out there. The DIY solution would be wrapping the thumb drive with tinfoil, without touching the usb connector, and ground it somehow.

aye, place a small rubber cover over the connector and this idea should work.
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: 1pirata
Keeping backups on CD's here and heard some usb pen drives have extra shielding that help withstand a magnetic pulse.

What pen drives are these as I'd like to protect all my data from an EMP

If there are EMPs occurring, the resilient pen drives will be worth far more than the resultant value of any bitcoins after that event occurs.  (If for no other reason than the gold content of the electronics inside ... :-) )

Didn't see one, but i'm sure some devices encased in Permalloy or Mu-metal exist out there. The DIY solution would be wrapping the thumb drive with tinfoil, without touching the usb connector, and ground it somehow.
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Home Made faraday cages ftw.

TL;DR  Cheap galv steel can, line inside with some sort of elec insulator, lid, bottom and inner sides. Raise bottom with an insulator by a few more inches. Fill with your electronic goodies. Grounding is optional though imho it is better. Just drive a large iron stake into the ground and wrap a nice piece of large guage copper wire around it and the can, coat it real good with some corrision resistant electrolitic gel and you're good to go.  Lot of decent Tube vids on it if anyone is interested.

cheers
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1010
Keeping backups on CD's here and heard some usb pen drives have extra shielding that help withstand a magnetic pulse.

What pen drives are these as I'd like to protect all my data from an EMP

If there are EMPs occurring, the resilient pen drives will be worth far more than the resultant value of any bitcoins after that event occurs.  (If for no other reason than the gold content of the electronics inside ... :-) )
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
Freelance videographer
Keeping backups on CD's here and heard some usb pen drives have extra shielding that help withstand a magnetic pulse.

What pen drives are these as I'd like to protect all my data from an EMP (as DVDs can't store hundreds of GB of important data).I always thought that flash drives (solid state storage) would be the first to be fried. :/ I hope I'm wrong on that one.I'd also like my wallet to be safe as well.Any help is appreciated on this.Thanks.
N12
donator
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1010
Bitcoiners are quite stupid economically ignorant for the most part.

I like economically illiterate better Tongue and this goes for most people alive, like 99% (% pun intended  Grin)
Much better term, thanks. Just surprises me when such fallacies come from Bitcoin advocates.

Personally, if Bitcoins were not freely convertible like they are today and it could only be done at higher costs plus anonymously via shady avenues, the usefulness of Bitcoins to me would shrink enormously.

If a government has a problem with Bitcoin, MtGox will be target #1.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
Bitcoiners are quite stupid economically ignorant for the most part.

I like economically illiterate better Tongue and this goes for most people alive, like 99% (% pun intended  Grin)
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