Topic: What is the plan to fix slow transactions and high fees? - page 2. (Read 2960 times)

Where did I suggest that a layer could not be built on top of Bitcoin? Quite the opposite, keeping the underlying protocol and network lean and robust while scaling via additional layers (which could be peeled away if necessary) is probably the only solution which will allow Bitcoin to retain those unique properties.

My comment was clearly directed towards the idea that on-chain scaling via a massive block size increase is a viable solution.

it's simple don't buy cofee with bitcoin until they fix the scalability issue, bitcoin is not currently suited for microtransaction, even with the fee of 10k satoshi it was still bad to send 100k satoshi to pay 1/10 in fee

so it's not even a problem related to the 1mb block restriction, bitcoin was always bad at microtransaction, and this will be more true the more the value go up

in theory the average fee in satoshi showld be lower the more the value increase not that it remain the same, otherwise when bitcoin will reach 100k oen day, you will have to pay $100 to send $1 which is beyond retarded

The issue is the community won't decided on plan A or B and it becomes A vs B and neither passes. I bet the block size will stay the same and high fees for priority transactions will become the norm and it won't be used for standard transactions but more large amounts. Cheaper transactions will just either be off chain through a service provider (unwise but people campaign for it) or an altcoin like Litecoin or Dash (oh no I said altcoin).

So, currently in electrum, the recommended fee to get a transaction included in the next block, is 0.001835 BTC/kb. Thats 1.85$ PER KILOBYTE.

Politics aside, what is wrong with a payment layer built on top of the Bitcoin network? The possibilities for Bitcoin has become wider if there was a LN type network layer that could handle unlimited transactions and say could also become a bridge between blockchains. Real anonymous transactions could also be implemented. Why stop it just because "it does not retain its unique properties"? It is still there, you can still do transactions onchain.  

If Bitcoin does not retain it's unique properties in an attempt to accommodate "mainstream" usage, it's just a cumbersome PayPal, and no one is willing to use that.

So, currently in electrum, the recommended fee to get a transaction included in the next block, is 0.001835 BTC/kb. Thats 1.85$ PER KILOBYTE.

Now, to be fair, that is the recommended fee to get the transaction as soon as possible, but think of it this way:
I go to buy a cup of coffee and want to pay in bitcoin. I pay them but need to wait  some time for the transaction (obviously the coffee shop would want to receive a few confirmations on the transaction so they're sure I don't leave with a free coffee). Lets say I pay a high fee to get the transaction done soon, for this example lets say I paid a 1.85$ fee (and remember that is the recommended fee is per kilobyte, that's not the recommended total fee), now I've got to wait like 10 minutes and pay a dollar or two just to pay for a coffee with bitcoin (and remember that a few dollars is a high price to pay as a fee to buy something for a few dollars).

And this is in the current network. In order for me to pay for a coffee with bitcoin we'd probably need the mass adoption everybody seems convinced will happen. With mass adoption mean WAY more transactions on the network than now, and I feel mass adoption would cause the user base to grow much faster than the network (most of the people using bitcoin now are probably good with technology and would consider mining or hosting a node, if everybody joined then we probably wouldn't have a user base like that). Think of the kind of fees then.

I'd think that this should be a problem that is on the minds of the developers, and it probably is, so, what's the plan? Or perhaps there's already a plan coming to action and I'm just unaware of it. Anyway, please elaborate on this.

You dont need to wait until the confirmation will finish and the payment in bitcoin will appear in your balance. What it needs is that there is a transaction that has been done and the transfer is ongoing. If I am a merchant I will not think of it as a problem I will give my products to him even if the transaction is unconfirmed. Sooner or later it will be confirmed and will appear on my balance.

I think everyone agrees with that.  Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer electronic cash system.  If it stops being useful as that (or turns into something else completely), then less people will use it.  ...  I do this because I think the biggest problem facing Bitcoin at the moment is the unreliable confirmations and high fees.  If in the future, Bitcoin faces another problem, I'll turn my attention to that.  

You dont need to wait until the confirmation will finish and the payment in bitcoin will appear in your balance. What it needs is that there is a transaction that has been done and the transfer is ongoing. If I am a merchant I will not think of it as a problem I will give my products to him even if the transaction is unconfirmed. Sooner or later it will be confirmed and will appear on my balance.

So, currently in electrum, the recommended fee to get a transaction included in the next block, is 0.001835 BTC/kb. Thats 1.85$ PER KILOBYTE.

Now, to be fair, that is the recommended fee to get the transaction as soon as possible, but think of it this way:
I go to buy a cup of coffee and want to pay in bitcoin. I pay them but need to wait  some time for the transaction (obviously the coffee shop would want to receive a few confirmations on the transaction so they're sure I don't leave with a free coffee). Lets say I pay a high fee to get the transaction done soon, for this example lets say I paid a 1.85$ fee (and remember that is the recommended fee is per kilobyte, that's not the recommended total fee), now I've got to wait like 10 minutes and pay a dollar or two just to pay for a coffee with bitcoin (and remember that a few dollars is a high price to pay as a fee to buy something for a few dollars).

And this is in the current network. In order for me to pay for a coffee with bitcoin we'd probably need the mass adoption everybody seems convinced will happen. With mass adoption mean WAY more transactions on the network than now, and I feel mass adoption would cause the user base to grow much faster than the network (most of the people using bitcoin now are probably good with technology and would consider mining or hosting a node, if everybody joined then we probably wouldn't have a user base like that). Think of the kind of fees then.

I'd think that this should be a problem that is on the minds of the developers, and it probably is, so, what's the plan? Or perhaps there's already a plan coming to action and I'm just unaware of it. Anyway, please elaborate on this.

I'm signalling to miners that I'm ready for bigger blocks by running a node which permits up to 16 MB today. 

If Bitcoin does not retain it's unique properties in an attempt to accommodate "mainstream" usage, it's just a cumbersome PayPal, and no one is willing to use that.