Topic: What N America and Europe need to start on now! - page 3. (Read 912 times)

Even if Trump has called for this 2 Trillion, its the expenditure cost to be used up until 2025, and right now nothing is going to start, cause there are more things required than just infrastructure. I am taking about basic essential needs, if every country goes for lockdowns on a longer period, we'll soon be out of food, and other resources at hand.

And besides, no one even knows when this whole infrastructure thing will even start, so I wouldn't keep my hopes up only based on this.
While, its a given that China is known for producing shit tier products, its still cheap, and that same reason is why every single country depends on them. If cost wasn't a factor, China would be long gone, same reason why most people still eat non-organic food.

Its going to take a lot, and expenses of trillions of dollars if any other country wants to emerge on top against Chinese markets. And right now, every country is suffering, while China is picking up bones and leftovers, and by the time this is over, and other countries reach a position to recover, China will be on top whether we like it or not.

Producing our own pharmaceuticals,electronics and mining rare metals on own territory sounds good in theory,but in reality it will be way more expensive and probably not so efficient.
In this "NEW WORLD",where we produce everything in our countries,the costs of production will go up,so everything will be more expensive,while the salaries might stay the same(or they might go down).
Be ready for increasing levels of poverty.This might be the "new normal" for the western world.
Anyway,I don't think that the western countries will give up on globalization and close their borders forever.

Recovery? You really believe that? Even the virus completely disappears tomorrow, its effects won't disappear. Millions of people have already lost their jobs. Millions. That's when the death count is below 100k (65k right now) and it is increasing.

The world will never be the same after this. Many companies will be bankrupt. (Especially airlines) Globalization has failed.

Stop also implementing the economy at war and use war to turn the wheels of the economy because the American arms industry will continue to produce and contribute significant figures to American GDP.

American First, Make American great again is a good ambition, but regardless of who is responsible for this virus whether China or Europe, in the name of humanity, each country helps each other in the hope of mutual symbiosis in overcoming the corona pandemic.



Agree, the effect of the great depression, the subprime mortgage crisis is clear evidence that the greed of capitalism must be borne by the American people and the whole world, while the frontman of capitalism remains rich. This is also evidence that laissez-faire has failed to sustain the economy.

What America needs to do from now on is to learn from history so as not to repeat the same mistakes in the future. As a barometer of the world economy indirectly through the US dollar has transferred the problem to all countries in the world. The world bears the economic problems of the United States.


Small changes have a big impact, I don't know how the policies of small and medium businesses in America are just that, the community there can start the consolidation of the bottom of the pyramid so that money rotates and benefits the economy of the lower classes and working class.


The existence of debt and interest practices encourage a person's courage to speculate. Money should only function as a means of payment so that money continues to spin and provide benefits to many people not concentrated in the hands of a handful of people who ultimately cause the economy to stall due to speculators. The action of speculation George Soros had brought an economic crisis in Southeast Asia in 1998, an example of the greed of the capitalist that brought suffering to millions of people.

Maybe!

Perhaps on the contrary, April may be the beginning of the recovery period. Nobody believed that things would grow that big in January. Until the middle of March, the WHO did not take the situation seriously until the last stage. A treatment method to be found can start putting things back on track. Nobody can say that the effects of this bad times will not last for a while, but recovery will begin gradually.

Agreed with pugman.

I dont think it will be over so easily even after the cure gets found. We are only at the beginning of what's about to come. You see the unemployment rates in the US is still soaring. These people won't find new jobs suddenly.

 The soaring U.S. unemployment rate could approach Great Depression-era levels


March was only the beginning.

The capitalism we have is a long, long way from what its proponents will admit to it being in public. It has a huge socialist streak however that socialism is restricted entirely to corporate interests who get bailed out, indulged and protected while the real people are left to rot.

Look at defence procurement. They ration the work they give out between companies very carefully to make sure they all get a piece of the pie. It's sensible, you can't let entire arms of industry die, but it's no different from a politburo handing out stuff to different tractor factories no matter how dire they are.

If any politician proposed the measures they give their masters to the average person in the street they'd be immediately hounded out for being a flat out commie.

Experts say that a fully effective vaccine is not possible for at least 1-1.5 years. In this case, a drug that fights the disease should be found more urgently than disease prevention. But more importantly, in this process, studies should be done globally for production models that will sustain the world economy. I think our primary need is basic food and health supplies. First of all, if we can act together in this area, then we will have no problem with hunger and insufficient health services.

If we can make progress on issues such as joint laboratory studies, sharing information, joint steps can be taken for both treatments and needs. In this, people who are competent in health of each country can be brought together. Since the source of this problem is now the common problem of the whole world, it is obvious that more people will be hurt unless they act together.

Trump has already called for a $2 trillion spending bill for infrastructure. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-31/trump-calls-for-2-trillion-infrastructure-bill-to-create-jobs

It's not as crazy as it sounds given the unprecedented unemployment numbers. Infrastructure spending is a band-aid for that since it creates lots of temporary jobs.

I'm less convinced about the manufacturing angle, although China's widespread defective medical products during this crisis was notable and could affect future demand for some Chinese-made products.

The vaccine is on the way to finish, and many countries are trying to find the vaccine, but the process will not happen fast. There are many things to be tested before the vaccine can be given to the patient, and I think that will need some months before they can get it. Healing the people who infected and searching the other infected people and isolate is an important thing right now before the virus spreads to more people. So after the government knows who is the infected people, and they can quarantine that person to get cured, the government will think about the other way.

They should increase their focus more on building a vaccine or something to make the pandemic go away a little faster, second is that they should build a system that helps in preventingthe further spread and contractiong of the virus, and lastly, I think that the government should strategize on how will they create a fund stimulation that will benefit especially the poor.

I didn't want to develop this but job insecurity for example is the fault/ due to the wild strict version of capitalism adopted by the USA. +6 millions jobless? That's crazy, i doubt that Europe for example reached that number. I am neither supporting socialism or communism but a soft version of capitalism may be the best choice.
Personally I believe that each country has to secure its basics infrastructure which is essentially health and food, at whatever cost. The difference between the price of surgical mask made in USA vs China for example should be covered by the govs or there is another option, whenever locally made drug or medical equipment is available then insurance will cover it while it will not cover imported ones.
Back to reality, govs covering something is communism-like and no one likes it, insurance covering expensive things is a pure delusion 
Everyone is claiming to support his country products while buying cheaper ones from foreign countries. Globalisation. Last thing I read on social media is an American buying a phone case from China. Coronavirus they said? Nothing will change...

Very unlikely to happen. Right now, the only concern that every single country has is to get rid of Covid-19 once and for all. And I don't see that happening, there are over a million cases as we speak, and the numbers don't seem to be going down. China, who thought that they stabilized the rise of Covid-19 cases, had 3000 new cases yesterday. And this won't end until there is a goddamn cure.
 
What you're suggesting is very unwise to do in midst of a pandemic. Sure, instead of relying on China, we get to start relying on ourselves, but at what cost? Any country tries to bring this proposal to the public, its gonna cause a mayhem. Maybe things could change after the pandemic is over, but until then bringing new people in to launch factories, dig up raw material is only going to make the Covid-19 pandemic worse.

As for the cost, trillions of dollars are being spent on this pandemic, its going to be a bloodbath coming out of this, every single country will have to basically do a fresh start, there is going to alot of layoffs, companies are going to vanish overnight, things are going to be more horrible, we just can't see it yet. 

I second some of the proposals. A more "region-focused" economy will be more resilient than our current extreme-globalized one.

As @dothebeats and @snipie have already written the problem is that the current situation evolved due to labor costs which were too high in the "Western" countries for most "mass manufacturing" industries. However, this can change with automatization technology. A year ago approximately I read about a return of textile/clothing industry to Europe due to the development of highly automatized machines which reduced the need for cheap workers.

Can Bitcoin help with that? At a first glance, Bitcoin is a global currency and would also favour a "global labor market". But if it becomes a mainstream currency it could have an effect which may help: it may slowly level out differences in labor costs. At least office jobs are in theory doable from every location on the world with Internet, and this would mean that if all labor was priced in a global currency like BTC, it could lead to increasing worldwide competition between workers, which in the long rund would thus lead to a reduction of national/regional differences in hourly wages.

This would mean it could get increasingly difficult for companies to save costs "escaping" countries or regions with high labor cost, and it would give them again incentives to manufacture locally again (with improved technology).

But some will be thinking along the lines of - can we afford not to?

We are indeed awash with affordable tat but look at the social effects the current system has created - job insecurity, populist knobhounds, intergenerational resentment, rising living costs and stagnating wages.

Of course rejecting China may not solve any of that but some will feel it's worth experimenting with. I guess the real disruptor is AI and automation and that's the greatest unknown for all of us in the future.

Imagine the effects of genuine hostility between the West and elsewhere beyond the sniping we have today. It could be crippled in a couple of hours. At the same time it's possibly the most powerful form of keeping the peace between major powers we've ever known. No one can afford world war to happen any more. That may mean more proxy wars of course.

The problem of what you are talking about is cost. I am not only talking about the cost of building new factories, workers, electricity, raw materials, suppliers... and the corruption in each step. I am talking about the price of the final product mainly which is double or triple of the Chinese one.
A normal citizen is looking for gloves for example, he will not buy a pair of French gloves for $3 but instead he will buy 3 Chinese one for the same price. What's the difference? That's the real problem here. The same view will change when talking about cars for example, people will not buy a Chinese car with $10k but will buy a German or US one with +$20k.
Medical field is neglected by govs, big companies are profiting from it like hell, look to the price of insulin in USA, it is ridiculous, it is 50x higher than third world countries! Better to not mention the cost of active principle of medication which most countries import it from China and India.
What i am trying to say is not just having infrastructure covering all fields but also managing affordable and competitive prices. And until now, China is leading by far most of the countries.

The problem with the Westerners in general is that most of them do not want to get their hands dirty on laboring, that's why you have tons of 9-5, rank-and-file jobs in the West compared to anywhere else in the world. Also, capitalists never really think of things like large-scale economic implications of their ventures by outsourcing most of the jobs and investing on infrastructure wherever is cheaper. The result? China gained power plants and massive production facilities with an arsenal of workers willing to get underpaid as long as they have the $$$ to take home at the end of the day. The greed of capitalists on profits allowed China to gain the manufacturing edge, and Europe/NA plants are lagging behind throughput and output since they invested more on the Eastern front.

As for the pharmaceutical industry, believe it or not the Westerners have the competitive edge and tech against China. Most big pharma in the US alone have sophisticated laboratories enough to produce vaccines and drugs at a large-scale compared to the capabilities of Japan, SoKor, and China combined. Then again, it is entirely dependent on which superbug or virus arises, and SARS-CoV-2 is made in China that's why the Chinese made studies first than any other countries in the world.

For NA and EU to bounce back in the scene, massive loss on profits and economy would have to happen. Pulling out integral assets on the eastern front would certainly hurt the bank and may result to yet another recession along the way. Unfortunately, the manufacturing scene would be Sino-centric for a while before level-headed capitalists actually think that their own plants are lagging behind their overseas investments, and that it is only a matter of time before those same investments ruin what they started.

What was normal though?

It wasn't going well before covid19 if that's what you mean. "Normal" was already going for a disaster. Covid19 only made us reach our target faster: Total shit.

Before covid nothing was "normal". There were still negative interest rates, excessive money printing, asset bubbles etc etc. If it wasn't covid, we were going to experience this sooner or later. I think we should have gone through this in 2001 tbh. Not even 2008.

We bought a 20-year extension from the FED and time is up.

Indeed the majority of people, forget fast but with this situation, we can't define normal like it was before. So after this global lockdown, normal will have a new meaning.
As for the economy, I can't say much for now. Both US and EU announce "supporting measures" with trillions...

Everything depends how long the crisis will last but I don't expect that something will change in dramatic way. People have very short memory and as soon as everything gets back to normal, people will forget everything they cry out now.
Economy will suffer the worst and that will leave deep trace but again some will use this situation for their own benefit, both countries and individuals.