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Topic: What price would you stop buying Bitcoin? - page 8. (Read 9880 times)

legendary
Activity: 3500
Merit: 2246
🌀 Cosmic Casino
Now something that as value is backed by mathematics.. no ressources or power involved.  Just math !
It's a great revolution toward progress that Crypto-Blockchain stuff bring to humanity !Evolution! Smiley

Be careful with "backed by math".  It is backed by the math that a miner consortium decides to put into the software they are running to make the block chain.  You may think that the 21 million coins are "fixed by math", but that's not true.  They are only fixed by the lines of software that are running now on the nodes of the miner pools.  The only thing that withholds them from changing that, is the *psychological* barrier ; the fact that this was so hammered into the minds of the users that if ever they dare to change that, the whole belief system crumbles.  But it is not "backed by math", at all.

Where does this 21 million come from ?  It comes from the fact that there's a piece of software that has a counter, and every 210 000 blocks, it halves the block reward.

Here's that piece of code:


It means that during 210 000 blocks, there were 50 coins ; then there were 25 coins in the next 210 000 blocks, etc....

As 50 + 25 + 12.5 + 6.25 + .... = 100

we have that in total, *if this piece of software continues to run unchanged for the next 100 years or so*, there will be 210 000 * 100 = 21 000 000 coins in total.

If tomorrow, all the miner pools together (there are about 20 of them) decide to change those few lines of code, you can print just as many bitcoin as you want.  No math, apart from the trivial math that calculates the sum when you have the lines of code, in the same way that "the math determines the emission of fiat currency", when a central bank prints, say, a million dollars a day, you can say that "the math" fixes the amount of dollars printed per year to 365 million.



Well that's an interesting perspective, but could you please elaborate more?

As far as I understand, the total number of Bitcoins  is the sum of a Geometric series (S):

 S = 210000 x 50 x ( 1 / (1 - 0.5) ) = 21 million.

If we already have a given geometric series, how can we change change its sum?

The total number of bitcoins is the sum of a Geometric series, because that is what is programmed in the piece of code I quoted.  If you change that code (that is, if the miners change that code), then this sum becomes whatever you program there.  There is no "mathematical constraint" in bitcoin that would make bitcoin cryptographically fail or something if this changed - that's what I mean by "backed by mathematics".   Suppose for instance, that there was a bitcoin to be created for every block number being a prime number, and that this prime number played an essential cryptographic role without which, the system would simply not function.  Then you could say that the emission rate of bitcoin was somehow "backed by mathematics".

But the "backed by mathematics" is in our case, simply the sum of the numbers that have been programmed by a few lines of code: if you change those lines of code, then the "mathematics" will simply sum to something else.  Like I said, change this line :

nSubsidy >>= halvings;

into

nSubsidy <<= halvings;

and you have now a doubling instead of a halving every 4 years, and the sum of all coins is "backed by mathematics" to become infinite.

If all miners do that and agree on that, then right now, they start earning, not 12.5 coins, but rather 200 coins per block, and in a good 3 years, 400 coins per block.

BTW, that would have been a wiser emission curve (at least for a while), to emit more coins when adoption grows, rather than give all the stash to a few early adopters, but silly belief in sound money theory fucked up bitcoin - but now bitcoin is stuck in that belief system.



Many thanks for the profound explanation. I'm not that good at math and maybe that's why I still think it's impossible without totally ruining Bitcoin to make those changes. Since there's no way miners want to ruin Bitcoin they would never agree on making those changes to the code. But theoretically you are right I think. At least I can't prove otherwise.
hero member
Activity: 2590
Merit: 644
I won't stop buying and selling because I am doing trading with bitcoin, so as long as there is a potential to earn profit then I won't stop buy and sell, but for investment I have stop buying when the price reaching 1000$, now I never buy any bitcoin anymore, I am earning bitcoin now for my investment
I agree with you, there is no particular price for the traders to stop buying bitcoin because as long as the market is active and you can still do traders often then you can buy whatever the price and do trades and make some money with it because a trader is not focusing on the price but on the movement of the market and how can he generate money with his assets.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1001
I won't stop buying and selling because I am doing trading with bitcoin, so as long as there is a potential to earn profit then I won't stop buy and sell, but for investment I have stop buying when the price reaching 1000$, now I never buy any bitcoin anymore, I am earning bitcoin now for my investment
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1010
ITSMYNE 🚀 Talk NFTs, Trade NFTs 🚀
I'll stop buying Bitcoin as soon as 1 Satoshi hit the price of $1, till then I have a plan of buying Bitcoin whenever price gets lower than the regular. But after that it's just holding and selling at the right point. We would trade satoshi's then I guess.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 629

Good point, but you know, as well, that miners would never do so – reason: Bitcoin becomes nothing. If there wasn't a 21 Million limitation, price wouldn't go as high as it's now (or higher in the future). So 'Math' still has a role in this, as manipulating it leads to catastrophic disasters.

As you say yourself, it is not math, but psychology.  If miners would touch it, the *belief* in "bitcoin to the moon" would be hurt, and "bitcoin to the moon" belief is what sustains its speculative market.    It is also what makes bitcoin a bad currency (no stable value).

There is no "mathematical guarantee" on bitcoin's emission curve.  That's my whole point.  The bitcoin emission curve is a matter of convention between miners, in the same way that block size is.  But the psychology and the game theory are such, that nobody dares to change it.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 629
Now something that as value is backed by mathematics.. no ressources or power involved.  Just math !
It's a great revolution toward progress that Crypto-Blockchain stuff bring to humanity !Evolution! Smiley

Be careful with "backed by math".  It is backed by the math that a miner consortium decides to put into the software they are running to make the block chain.  You may think that the 21 million coins are "fixed by math", but that's not true.  They are only fixed by the lines of software that are running now on the nodes of the miner pools.  The only thing that withholds them from changing that, is the *psychological* barrier ; the fact that this was so hammered into the minds of the users that if ever they dare to change that, the whole belief system crumbles.  But it is not "backed by math", at all.

Where does this 21 million come from ?  It comes from the fact that there's a piece of software that has a counter, and every 210 000 blocks, it halves the block reward.

Here's that piece of code:


It means that during 210 000 blocks, there were 50 coins ; then there were 25 coins in the next 210 000 blocks, etc....

As 50 + 25 + 12.5 + 6.25 + .... = 100

we have that in total, *if this piece of software continues to run unchanged for the next 100 years or so*, there will be 210 000 * 100 = 21 000 000 coins in total.

If tomorrow, all the miner pools together (there are about 20 of them) decide to change those few lines of code, you can print just as many bitcoin as you want.  No math, apart from the trivial math that calculates the sum when you have the lines of code, in the same way that "the math determines the emission of fiat currency", when a central bank prints, say, a million dollars a day, you can say that "the math" fixes the amount of dollars printed per year to 365 million.



Well that's an interesting perspective, but could you please elaborate more?

As far as I understand, the total number of Bitcoins  is the sum of a Geometric series (S):

 S = 210000 x 50 x ( 1 / (1 - 0.5) ) = 21 million.

If we already have a given geometric series, how can we change change its sum?

The total number of bitcoins is the sum of a Geometric series, because that is what is programmed in the piece of code I quoted.  If you change that code (that is, if the miners change that code), then this sum becomes whatever you program there.  There is no "mathematical constraint" in bitcoin that would make bitcoin cryptographically fail or something if this changed - that's what I mean by "backed by mathematics".   Suppose for instance, that there was a bitcoin to be created for every block number being a prime number, and that this prime number played an essential cryptographic role without which, the system would simply not function.  Then you could say that the emission rate of bitcoin was somehow "backed by mathematics".

But the "backed by mathematics" is in our case, simply the sum of the numbers that have been programmed by a few lines of code: if you change those lines of code, then the "mathematics" will simply sum to something else.  Like I said, change this line :

nSubsidy >>= halvings;

into

nSubsidy <<= halvings;

and you have now a doubling instead of a halving every 4 years, and the sum of all coins is "backed by mathematics" to become infinite.

If all miners do that and agree on that, then right now, they start earning, not 12.5 coins, but rather 200 coins per block, and in a good 3 years, 400 coins per block.

BTW, that would have been a wiser emission curve (at least for a while), to emit more coins when adoption grows, rather than give all the stash to a few early adopters, but silly belief in sound money theory fucked up bitcoin - but now bitcoin is stuck in that belief system.

copper member
Activity: 1330
Merit: 899
🖤😏
Whenever I need to pay for something using Bitcoin then I will pay the amount in fiat and buy then send Bitcoin only with a few percent difference which is deducted as fees but it wont effect my buying power much.

If you are a trader and constantly doing small and big trades, again it wont effect your tradings that much.

But if you are a miner and selling your coins as you mine them it will definitely change things for you.

At the moment I'm not buying any altcoins because they are in a fake pump stage, so no need to buy Bitcoin for me but no matter the price as long as I can sell back with a few percent difference I will pay the price, market price.
sr. member
Activity: 1344
Merit: 288
Now something that as value is backed by mathematics.. no ressources or power involved.  Just math !
It's a great revolution toward progress that Crypto-Blockchain stuff bring to humanity !Evolution! Smiley

Be careful with "backed by math".  It is backed by the math that a miner consortium decides to put into the software they are running to make the block chain.  You may think that the 21 million coins are "fixed by math", but that's not true.  They are only fixed by the lines of software that are running now on the nodes of the miner pools.  The only thing that withholds them from changing that, is the *psychological* barrier ; the fact that this was so hammered into the minds of the users that if ever they dare to change that, the whole belief system crumbles.  But it is not "backed by math", at all.

Where does this 21 million come from ?  It comes from the fact that there's a piece of software that has a counter, and every 210 000 blocks, it halves the block reward.

Here's that piece of code:


It means that during 210 000 blocks, there were 50 coins ; then there were 25 coins in the next 210 000 blocks, etc....

As 50 + 25 + 12.5 + 6.25 + .... = 100

we have that in total, *if this piece of software continues to run unchanged for the next 100 years or so*, there will be 210 000 * 100 = 21 000 000 coins in total.

If tomorrow, all the miner pools together (there are about 20 of them) decide to change those few lines of code, you can print just as many bitcoin as you want.  No math, apart from the trivial math that calculates the sum when you have the lines of code, in the same way that "the math determines the emission of fiat currency", when a central bank prints, say, a million dollars a day, you can say that "the math" fixes the amount of dollars printed per year to 365 million.


Good point, but you know, as well, that miners would never do so – reason: Bitcoin becomes nothing. If there wasn't a 21 Million limitation, price wouldn't go as high as it's now (or higher in the future). So 'Math' still has a role in this, as manipulating it leads to catastrophic disasters.

On topic, I have stopped buying bitcoin since the price went to $1500 – it is very high for me to buy even 0.1BTC with USD$. Instead, I am working on making Bitcoins in other ways (not just my signature).  
hero member
Activity: 3024
Merit: 745
🌀 Cosmic Casino
I will only stop buying when it exceeds $3k per BTC because at stage I would be better off buying mining equipments to stletup my own mining rig and mining Altcoins in order to sell for bitcoins.

This is my plan to build my own mining rig but I won't mine bitcoin but I'm going to mine alt coins because it's more profitable than mining bitcoin which is the difficulty is harder nowadays. I'm planning if I'm going to stop at $3k or if there will be more good news to come whatever the price will be I'm going to buy at any moment.
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1000
pump or dump
pump.
I've come to hate this phrase with a passion.  "Pump and dump" refers to a very specific ripoff technique, and yet people on this forum use it like they think they're commentators on MSNBC, using some clever financial jargon.  Drives me nuts.

OP, I've stopped buying as of a couple of days ago, but not because I think we're too high--though we're damn high, and we rose way too fast--but because I've blown through my allotment of disposable cash for the week.  In other words, if I had more dough I'd be buying still.  Not huge amounts, but I'd still be buying.  And I haven't sold any.  I think this bull run still has some life left in it.  Perhaps next week I can get some more at a better price.
although  i still want to buy, because i think still the price of bitcoin is going to increase more and more, but in fact i cannot afford to buy more as  i have already bought a good amount of bitcoin, even i take some loan from my friend and invest it here, as i am confident that bitcoin will really give me good profit in the end.
sr. member
Activity: 812
Merit: 251
I will only stop buying when it exceeds $3k per BTC because at stage I would be better off buying mining equipments to stletup my own mining rig and mining Altcoins in order to sell for bitcoins.
member
Activity: 197
Merit: 10
Hello Bitcoiner
Bitcoin prices are decreasing or increasing. If the cost of Bitcoin is increased, then we can make profit from Bitcoin. And we can trade or invest it.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 502
The price of Bitcoin is hitting new highs regularly now...  and yet it is expected to continue rising.  At what price would you stop buying? 
Logically we can assume that bitcoin price, because of the natural properties of BTC combined with growing awareness and adoption will continue to grow.
It is safe to say that even if you buy BTC at today's hypothetical ATH soon we will have even higher ATH.

Conclusion: as long as you have fiat money to spare buying bitcoin is a great option.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1011
Probably you would stop buying bitcoin when the price is really high like not and this time I already stop buying and just waiting for may investment to grow but there are times that the bitcoin price go down that the time I will buy bitcoin again.
Yes, I agree with you. You should try to buy in the best time for avoiding any kind of loss, but it's too hard because no one can predict what will happen in bitcoin financial market. So i advise people to buy know before any other increase of price. because I think if the price will be more than 2000$. Not all people can buy it. 2k$ Is a huge amount for many peoples.
Anything can happen in bitcoin world. There is nothing we can avoid. So trading every time is a careful choice. We just have to determine the right time. While prices sometimes change prices without notice.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
Probably you would stop buying bitcoin when the price is really high like not and this time I already stop buying and just waiting for may investment to grow but there are times that the bitcoin price go down that the time I will buy bitcoin again.
Yes, I agree with you. You should try to buy in the best time for avoiding any kind of loss, but it's too hard because no one can predict what will happen in bitcoin financial market. So i advise people to buy know before any other increase of price. because I think if the price will be more than 2000$. Not all people can buy it. 2k$ Is a huge amount for many peoples.
sr. member
Activity: 272
Merit: 250
apart from being an investor in bitcoin i am also using it as a currency to purchase some stuff from internet and that means for me it will never matter what the price is! i will continue buying bitcoin as long as i need to spend some.
I think if you use bitcoin for investment it will be a bit problematic. Of course the more expensive, then you will only get a bit bitcoin just because of limited funds. And I think the bitcoin price changes will also turn into a non-volatile #imo
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1042
The price of 1 bitcoin is arbitrary. It makes you feel like it's one unit when in fact it's 100 million units of value. There isn't a price I would stop buying at but I definitely would try to buy at dips so you know you're buying at a more true value for that time period.
hero member
Activity: 2744
Merit: 541
Campaign Management?"Hhampuz" is the Man
The price of Bitcoin is hitting new highs regularly now...  and yet it is expected to continue rising.  At what price would you stop buying? 

well if I were able to buy bitcoin I would stop buying once the value has reached the amount that is very much closer to $2,000, actually at this moment buying bitcoin seems to be very risky already because although the price is continuously getting much higher sometimes it is also getting decreased maybe due to those people who are panic selling their bitcoin and it made me think that after hitting expected price most people will quickly dump their coin .
hero member
Activity: 2590
Merit: 644
never sell Btc until it's 3000$
Yes that is one of my price target for the high price of bitcoin and i think if the price reaches at least 3000 USD a lot of people will sell mostly those people who bought their bitcoins from 1000 USD or below. If i were you, i will sell some of my bitcoins if the price reaches 3000 USD to get ROI and i will keep the rest for another price target.
legendary
Activity: 3500
Merit: 2246
🌀 Cosmic Casino
Now something that as value is backed by mathematics.. no ressources or power involved.  Just math !
It's a great revolution toward progress that Crypto-Blockchain stuff bring to humanity !Evolution! Smiley

Be careful with "backed by math".  It is backed by the math that a miner consortium decides to put into the software they are running to make the block chain.  You may think that the 21 million coins are "fixed by math", but that's not true.  They are only fixed by the lines of software that are running now on the nodes of the miner pools.  The only thing that withholds them from changing that, is the *psychological* barrier ; the fact that this was so hammered into the minds of the users that if ever they dare to change that, the whole belief system crumbles.  But it is not "backed by math", at all.

Where does this 21 million come from ?  It comes from the fact that there's a piece of software that has a counter, and every 210 000 blocks, it halves the block reward.

Here's that piece of code:


It means that during 210 000 blocks, there were 50 coins ; then there were 25 coins in the next 210 000 blocks, etc....

As 50 + 25 + 12.5 + 6.25 + .... = 100

we have that in total, *if this piece of software continues to run unchanged for the next 100 years or so*, there will be 210 000 * 100 = 21 000 000 coins in total.

If tomorrow, all the miner pools together (there are about 20 of them) decide to change those few lines of code, you can print just as many bitcoin as you want.  No math, apart from the trivial math that calculates the sum when you have the lines of code, in the same way that "the math determines the emission of fiat currency", when a central bank prints, say, a million dollars a day, you can say that "the math" fixes the amount of dollars printed per year to 365 million.



Well that's an interesting perspective, but could you please elaborate more?

As far as I understand, the total number of Bitcoins  is the sum of a Geometric series (S):

 S = 210000 x 50 x ( 1 / (1 - 0.5) ) = 21 million.

If we already have a given geometric series, how can we change change its sum?
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