What should we focus on more? Demand or Supply? - page 7.

valentine401

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Quote from: Nhebu on August 30, 2018, 06:18:01 PM

Of course demand!

Even there are scarce or huge amount of supply if the demand is low, price won't keep hike. If I am looking for a coin, I usually look upon the volume of it and if the price is congruent to the total supply. Most of the time, I am buying coins which has lower supply because it will have the tendency to rise up when the demand gets higher. Lower supply will easily up while higher supply won't.

The price increase is depending on the volume and that is the reason why you should always invest and sell your coins at the right time in order to earn more profit.

Kakmakr

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Quote from: cellard on August 30, 2018, 01:41:17 PM

Quote from: Kakmakr on August 30, 2018, 02:38:04 AM

I see a lot of people that are hoarding 100% of their bitcoins, because they believe cutting off the supply, would be enough to increase the price.

Would it not be better, if we increased the demand by increasing Bitcoin awareness and convincing more merchants to offer Bitcoin payments?

A 100% hoarding strategy is more harmful, because it cancels all the good work that was done to get merchants to accept Bitcoin as a payment option. A merchant will stop accepting Bitcoin, if their is no demand or transactions being generated for their business from the Bitcoin payment side.

We should actively encourage local merchants to start accepting bitcoins and then we should start supporting them.

Just buy back the bitcoins that you spend and you will be fine or use money that you would not have hoarded and buy the goods or service with bitcoins.

Adopt a 80% hoarding and 20% spending strategy and we will see a massive increase in Bitcoin adoption Cool

There is no incentive for most people to use bitcoin to make payments that could have been made perfectly fine with fiat, without losing your bitcoin position.

Why would people want to use bitcoin, something scarce and limited in amount, to buy stuff, stuff which could be perfectly bought with fiat, so you lose the easy money (fiat) while saving up the hard money (bitcoin)?

I don't see bitcoin being integrated within economic activity anytime soon. There would need to be a catalyst for that, like the governments banning physical cash so people are forced to look for alternatives, and bitcoin would be the best one, so there we would see a rise in goods and services being sold for bitcoin under the radar.

But until then most people are simply going to keep using bitcoin as a better gold, not as a fiat replacement. You don't see people paying with gold in shops, yet gold is worth 7+ trillion. So that's a potential 7 trillion dollar market there without necessarily being used as a common way to make payments. Will the day of common BTC payments come? only the future will tell.

Merchants should create the incentive, by offering "discounts" to people who pays with bitcoins. Why? ..because the merchant does not have to deal with large amounts of cash or expensive credit card transaction fees. The savings can be used to fund these discounts. Grin

The user will obviously opt to use Bitcoin, because these discounts does not apply when you pay with any other payment method.

r32godzilla

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Quote from: Kakmakr on August 30, 2018, 02:38:04 AM

I see a lot of people that are hoarding 100% of their bitcoins, because they believe cutting off the supply, would be enough to increase the price.

Would it not be better, if we increased the demand by increasing Bitcoin awareness and convincing more merchants to offer Bitcoin payments?

A 100% hoarding strategy is more harmful, because it cancels all the good work that was done to get merchants to accept Bitcoin as a payment option. A merchant will stop accepting Bitcoin, if their is no demand or transactions being generated for their business from the Bitcoin payment side.

We should actively encourage local merchants to start accepting bitcoins and then we should start supporting them.

Just buy back the bitcoins that you spend and you will be fine or use money that you would not have hoarded and buy the goods or service with bitcoins.

Adopt a 80% hoarding and 20% spending strategy and we will see a massive increase in Bitcoin adoption Cool

Well its definitely a different perspective that bitcoin holders were doing it for decreasing the supply.Even if they do it,unless they were in majority they could not get the desired results since still there are day traders and newbies who would contribute for bitcoin circulation.

Finestream

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Quote from: Nhebu on August 30, 2018, 06:18:01 PM

Of course demand!

Even there are scarce or huge amount of supply if the demand is low, price won't keep hike. If I am looking for a coin, I usually look upon the volume of it and if the price is congruent to the total supply. Most of the time, I am buying coins which has lower supply because it will have the tendency to rise up when the demand gets higher. Lower supply will easily up while higher supply won't.

Yes.I also think it will be good to focus more on demand rather than its supply.If majority of the people and even big establishments will come to patronize bitcoin not just as an investment but as a currency,i'm sure the market price will continue to grow even more and even reach new heights in the future.

Nhebu

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Of course demand!

Even there are scarce or huge amount of supply if the demand is low, price won't keep hike. If I am looking for a coin, I usually look upon the volume of it and if the price is congruent to the total supply. Most of the time, I am buying coins which has lower supply because it will have the tendency to rise up when the demand gets higher. Lower supply will easily up while higher supply won't.

Nanot

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Quote from: Kakmakr on August 30, 2018, 02:38:04 AM

I see a lot of people that are hoarding 100% of their bitcoins, because they believe cutting off the supply, would be enough to increase the price.

Would it not be better, if we increased the demand by increasing Bitcoin awareness and convincing more merchants to offer Bitcoin payments?

A 100% hoarding strategy is more harmful, because it cancels all the good work that was done to get merchants to accept Bitcoin as a payment option. A merchant will stop accepting Bitcoin, if their is no demand or transactions being generated for their business from the Bitcoin payment side.

We should actively encourage local merchants to start accepting bitcoins and then we should start supporting them.

Just buy back the bitcoins that you spend and you will be fine or use money that you would not have hoarded and buy the goods or service with bitcoins.

Adopt a 80% hoarding and 20% spending strategy and we will see a massive increase in Bitcoin adoption Cool

I will asked for demand rather than supply but many of the people has demand for the supply but since bitcoin was down fall on its price. How can you able to demand for supply even you got more of tgat but is price was too low it will be a no price because its low. You need the demand. The demand to its price and quality because all of that are equivalent to high price even it is small.

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Quote from: SkyFlakes on August 30, 2018, 08:38:45 AM

In the case or world of cryptocurrency, demand is the thing that should be given by attention. This is because when we talk about supply, it is about the coins currently in the market. There's a lot of coins that can be seen. But the problem is that there's a little demand over those coin. Thus, this would further prove that what we should focus now is with the demand of everyone to the coin s rather than the supply of the coins itself that can be found in the market.

I agree on you as we see, we have lack of. Demand to the coin why it also have only lower price. Yes sometimes we have lot of supply of coin in our wallet but because. There are no demands on it, it became useless. Or maybe it has only have lower price when you sell. I believe we really need to focus more on the demand of every coin in the market.

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Quote from: Rath_ on August 30, 2018, 04:35:27 PM

Quote from: darkangel11 on August 30, 2018, 03:00:39 PM

Without a constant demand hoarding won't make anyone rich, on the contrary, they'll be getting poorer every day, even faster than they would holding inflationary fiat money.
Most holders know about it and they're holding because they believe in BTC.

The problem here is that most holders treat Bitcoin only as a long-term investment or store of value. I am not denying that they are right but they forget that Bitcoin can be used as a currency. Many merchants stopped accepting Bitcoin because of high transaction fees. The transactions fees are now low (1 sat/vbyte) and they might become even lower in the future (Bitcoin Core 0.18 -> 0.2 sat/vbyte) so there is no reason why holders would not spend at least some of their coins. The more people spend their coins, the more merchants decide to accept Bitcoin.

I can explain to you why I'm not treating it as a currency and why most people aren't and aren't planning to change it.
First of all there aren't many merchants that accept it in my area. I can't go to a shopping mall and pay for everything, like they do in Korea or Japan. I'm forced to use fiat, so that's what I'm doing, even though I'd prefer to use BTC. I'm not going to drive for 20 min just to get to a store that will take my BTC and probably charge me more for the merchandise than a fiat-based local store.
The second reason is even more obvious. My BTC is limited, I'm not getting a lot of it every month, but I'm getting fiat and I still have some fiat lying around. If I have to choose between spending my depreciating fiat or my BTC with a huge growth potential I will always spend fiat. It's that simple.

pitiflin

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Quote from: Kakmakr on August 30, 2018, 02:38:04 AM

I see a lot of people that are hoarding 100% of their bitcoins, because they believe cutting off the supply, would be enough to increase the price.

Would it not be better, if we increased the demand by increasing Bitcoin awareness and convincing more merchants to offer Bitcoin payments?

A 100% hoarding strategy is more harmful, because it cancels all the good work that was done to get merchants to accept Bitcoin as a payment option. A merchant will stop accepting Bitcoin, if their is no demand or transactions being generated for their business from the Bitcoin payment side.

We should actively encourage local merchants to start accepting bitcoins and then we should start supporting them.

Just buy back the bitcoins that you spend and you will be fine or use money that you would not have hoarded and buy the goods or service with bitcoins.

Adopt a 80% hoarding and 20% spending strategy and we will see a massive increase in Bitcoin adoption Cool

That's not how things work. You can't just focus more on one thing. We don't live in a world that has perfectly elastic supply or a world of perfectly inelastic demand. This won't make sense to you,if you haven't learnt Economics.

If you focus on demand more, then we will be forced in a situation where demand drops and supply increases until they crossover at a point called equilibrium which would decide the equilibrium price and equilibrium quantity. Same applies to supply.

Crypto-economics is different than normal economics, so things can be more complicated than what I said.

Things are easier said than done. Just saying things won't do shit. People have mixed feelings on bitcoin. You have to understand the laws of demand and supply, you can't just go ahead and tell merchants to adopt bitcoin or tell "hodlers" not to "hodl".

danherbias07

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Very true.

It should not just be over by hodling it.
Invite others although there is much negativity about crypto currencies. Just making them aware might give them that spark to look at it deeply.
With that, they may see the positive feature of crypto currencies specially bitcoin.

It would be lovely if it happens. But some are discouraged because they are rejected or worse they are being mocked by those traditional fial believers.

Rath_

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Quote from: darkangel11 on August 30, 2018, 03:00:39 PM

Without a constant demand hoarding won't make anyone rich, on the contrary, they'll be getting poorer every day, even faster than they would holding inflationary fiat money.
Most holders know about it and they're holding because they believe in BTC.

The problem here is that most holders treat Bitcoin only as a long-term investment or store of value. I am not denying that they are right but they forget that Bitcoin can be used as a currency. Many merchants stopped accepting Bitcoin because of high transaction fees. The transactions fees are now low (1 sat/vbyte) and they might become even lower in the future (Bitcoin Core 0.18 -> 0.2 sat/vbyte) so there is no reason why holders would not spend at least some of their coins. The more people spend their coins, the more merchants decide to accept Bitcoin.

hahay

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Obviously most people will only hold their bitcoin supply in the event of a crash, if demand increases then prices will increase again too, so I don't think it would hurt to keep the supply when a crash occurs, because if someday there is good news about crypto, then this will lead to increased demand for bitcoin and the market will recover.

Harrisonimo

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This is only a means to achieving a goal for the market uplifting. The main expectation that will really drive the cryptocurrency market now is the impact the ETF will have when allowed. The other suggestions are mere speculations and may not work or take reasonable effect as the market knows what it needs at this time which is the ETF!

hugeblack

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I agree with you, but I think you forgot the critical point about transactions fees.
If the stores start to accept ]Bitcoin we will notice massive spam of useless transactions "buy coffee and drinks" and thus the high confirmation times and fees.
After solving the Bitcoin problem "scalability", we can talk about daily spending and shop acceptance. Now, raising awareness of using this technology in international transfers rather than well-known bank transfer methods.

Ucy

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Hoarding is not a thing n Bitcoin World to be honest. People are holding or saving their Bitcoins, not hoarding them and it is very much encouraged because it helps the network. Holding makes Bitcoin more valuable and less affected by inflation. This is what we all want, right?

Bitcoin is not commodity by the way— Holding does not cause the shortage of Bitcoin. Hoarding is mostly applicable to commodity. The so called hoarding of Bitcoin is very much encouraged.

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We should always focus on Demand because when there is demand, there is always supply. (well supply has to be created but what I said is like a gold rule). This is generally but if we talk about bitcoin, there are a lot of factors which affect it's price. Firstly it's mining profitability, if we aren't able to profit while mining, this will cause rise in price to make it profitable. When someone owns most % of supply, he/she can affect it's price a lot.

darkangel11

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Quote from: Kakmakr on August 30, 2018, 02:38:04 AM

I see a lot of people that are hoarding 100% of their bitcoins, because they believe cutting off the supply, would be enough to increase the price.

Would it not be better, if we increased the demand by increasing Bitcoin awareness and convincing more merchants to offer Bitcoin payments?

I don't understand why you came to the conclusion that hoarders want to increase value by limiting the supply. There's a lot of coins being generated every day and that additional supply has to go somewhere. there have to be buyers every day for the price to remain at the same level. Without a constant demand hoarding won't make anyone rich, on the contrary, they'll be getting poorer every day, even faster than they would holding inflationary fiat money.
Most holders know about it and they're holding because they believe in BTC.

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Quote from: Kakmakr on August 30, 2018, 02:38:04 AM

We should actively encourage local merchants to start accepting bitcoins and then we should start supporting them.

Giving them a simple encouragement that they must add bitcoin to their payment method is not enough. It requires massive request. As soon as they don't understand how volatile crypto is, no way they can just accept bitcoin as direct payment. Local merchants must maintain a profit day by day so without understanding fully how bitcoin price moves, they will never risks their profits.

And since we are talking about "local" merchants here, the community around is one of the factors too. If bitcoin is not that popular on their area why they should add bitcoin as payment method? That's why they need to understand all things first about crypto in order to take the risks.

But prior to that, it really needs a serious global push for other countries to follow.

cellard

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Quote from: Kakmakr on August 30, 2018, 02:38:04 AM

I see a lot of people that are hoarding 100% of their bitcoins, because they believe cutting off the supply, would be enough to increase the price.

Would it not be better, if we increased the demand by increasing Bitcoin awareness and convincing more merchants to offer Bitcoin payments?

A 100% hoarding strategy is more harmful, because it cancels all the good work that was done to get merchants to accept Bitcoin as a payment option. A merchant will stop accepting Bitcoin, if their is no demand or transactions being generated for their business from the Bitcoin payment side.

We should actively encourage local merchants to start accepting bitcoins and then we should start supporting them.

Just buy back the bitcoins that you spend and you will be fine or use money that you would not have hoarded and buy the goods or service with bitcoins.

Adopt a 80% hoarding and 20% spending strategy and we will see a massive increase in Bitcoin adoption Cool

There is no incentive for most people to use bitcoin to make payments that could have been made perfectly fine with fiat, without losing your bitcoin position.

Why would people want to use bitcoin, something scarce and limited in amount, to buy stuff, stuff which could be perfectly bought with fiat, so you lose the easy money (fiat) while saving up the hard money (bitcoin)?

I don't see bitcoin being integrated within economic activity anytime soon. There would need to be a catalyst for that, like the governments banning physical cash so people are forced to look for alternatives, and bitcoin would be the best one, so there we would see a rise in goods and services being sold for bitcoin under the radar.

But until then most people are simply going to keep using bitcoin as a better gold, not as a fiat replacement. You don't see people paying with gold in shops, yet gold is worth 7+ trillion. So that's a potential 7 trillion dollar market there without necessarily being used as a common way to make payments. Will the day of common BTC payments come? only the future will tell.

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Quote from: MilkyMilton on August 30, 2018, 04:34:15 AM

I've been a student of Economics for some time now. Not in an academic setting by the way. But I have undertaken studies of Economics individually. In this time, I have never seen a case where hoarding any product has worked for good. It always end up more like a lose-lose situation. And this is a strategy only amateurs engage. I totally agree with the poster. The only way to improve Bitcoin prices is to create awareness to induce the public's interest. In other words, only increased demand ever benefits a particular market.

Of course, the net accumulation of virtually all the bitcoins will lead to nothing good. Bitcoin must first of all work as a payment system, as it was conceived. If the situation continues in the same way, it can very badly end for bitcoin: it will grow in price until one day completely collapses in price.

Topic: What should we focus on more? Demand or Supply? - page 7. (Read 1710 times)