What the f..ck is wrong with the world,EU and crypto ?

Naficopa

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Quote from: goldkingcoiner on July 03, 2022, 06:11:16 AM

Quote from: gweb1996 on July 01, 2022, 10:22:44 PM

it seems governments are trying to take control of crypto and the internet.

They have been trying to do this since the birth of crypto. And what have they really achieved that was not already there? Nothing at all. People still can anonymously buy and trade crypto all they want and nobody is the wiser.

Same goes for the internet. Sure we may have many laws for the internet but you can circumvent 99% of these laws with a simple VPN. Or just use the dark web by accessing it through TOR.

The truth is that the governments have no power and they can only bark. Anyone who falls in line with their orders has only themselves to blame. Everyone else knows they can't actually do anything to crypto or the internet. Grin

Using the dark web is illegal and plenty is very high. So better safe than sorry.
Those who are controlling the crypto would not let that slip from their hands.

goldkingcoiner

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Quote from: gweb1996 on July 01, 2022, 10:22:44 PM

it seems governments are trying to take control of crypto and the internet.

They have been trying to do this since the birth of crypto. And what have they really achieved that was not already there? Nothing at all. People still can anonymously buy and trade crypto all they want and nobody is the wiser.

Same goes for the internet. Sure we may have many laws for the internet but you can circumvent 99% of these laws with a simple VPN. Or just use the dark web by accessing it through TOR.

The truth is that the governments have no power and they can only bark. Anyone who falls in line with their orders has only themselves to blame. Everyone else knows they can't actually do anything to crypto or the internet. Grin

Cnut237

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Quote from: gweb1996 on July 01, 2022, 10:22:44 PM

Crypto was supposed to be a decentralized means of payment, to escape banks and governments regulation, now it seems governments are trying to take control of crypto and the internet.
[...] Remember the '90 s internet ... that was a free internet,remember bitcoin 2009 ,that was true crypto...

It's like that with anything, though, it's inevitable. For so long as a thing remains small and niche, governments aren't bothered. As soon as the money starts to build, governments get interested. Mainstream adoption of crypto can't happen without running into the regulators. Your example of 90s internet is relevant... it was smaller, didn't pervade society, and wasn't so lucrative... and so could remain freer.

Naficopa

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Quote from: gweb1996 on July 01, 2022, 10:22:44 PM

Crypto was supposed to be a decentralized means of payment, to escape banks and governments regulation, now it seems governments are trying to take control of crypto and the internet.

It's like the gov is telling you what to dream, what to think, what to paint, who to f..k, what to create and so on, we need to disconnect from this internet controlled by govs and make a truly crypto that no one can touch! This is dictatorship people.Open your eyes ! They are trying to control our lives and take away our freedom !

Crypto and the internet should not be a weapon like they want it to be. They weaponized food, oil, electricity, water, internet and anything they get there hands on.
They don't like you to download pirated ebooks ,watch pirated TV do to fact it's hard to censor not because they give a cr..p about "author rights"... Open your eyes ! Don't use see ,your allowing them to take your freedom !

Remember the '90 s internet ... that was a free internet,remember bitcoin 2009 ,that was true crypto...

I think it's time to close our mobile phones and say f...ck you and your internet EU

"Cryptocurrency companies will need a licence and customer safeguards to issue and sell digital tokens in the European Union under groundbreaking new rules agreed by the bloc to tame a volatile “Wild West” market."

https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/european-union-approves-rules-to-tame-wild-west-crypto-market-122070200060_1.html

Government won't let you have the control of currency - why would they let you have control of the finances when they know the power will go in the hands of public. The dream of having money in our hands won't be fulfilled that easily.

ChrisPop

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Bitcoin is still as crypto as it gets. The regulations you see are mostly around centralized exchanges. Believe me, you don't want to hold crypto on them and one day you wake up with an empty wallet and a bankrupt exchange platform.

I think many of EU's policies like the GDPR benefit the customer and not the company. People need data privacy and investments need to be protected and incentivized. Otherwise we would all just consume until nothing's left.

gweb1996

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Quote from: DVlog on July 02, 2022, 12:34:16 PM

Just do not use any centralized exchange to deal with your crypto. No one will ever find out how many bitcoin you have and how many you sell at which price to buy a new car. This type of freedom you can feel by using bitcoin but you just needs to choose which way you want to be. In the safe side by working with the government by giving all of your earning through tax or in the growth side where no one can touch(know) your BTC without your permission.

I don't hold any crypto...used to have back in the old days 2009-2012 ...now speculators took over the network and regular Joes like me can't even touch it do to high fees ( bitcoin i mean ) . We can't even use it to test or create projects do to high fees...It's the speculators that should worry, i am just saying govs are taking away our freedoms so be careful as dictatorship ( the great reset ) already started.Their plan is motion.

DVlog

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Just do not use any centralized exchange to deal with your crypto. No one will ever find out how many bitcoin you have and how many you sell at which price to buy a new car. This type of freedom you can feel by using bitcoin but you just needs to choose which way you want to be. In the safe side by working with the government by giving all of your earning through tax or in the growth side where no one can touch(know) your BTC without your permission.

jackg

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Quote from: Gyfts on July 02, 2022, 04:24:03 AM

Do you believe the government is capable of protecting anyone?

Probably. If you sell medicines in the UK, you have to be licensed and those licenses are easy to look up. What if the same thing was done for crypto to.help new investors find appropriate places to invest in crypto and not have old people falling for scams in their inboxes.

Most European governments care about protecting the wealth held within their borders to ensure it can stay there (so it gets reinvested in their economy at some point and potentially into taxes).

Quote from: Gyfts on July 02, 2022, 04:24:03 AM

Financial regulations should only exist to promote capitalistic outcomes, ie competition amongst businesses. Bitcoin is decentralized by nature and doesn't fit the bill of sensible economic regulation; there isn't a central authority.

I haven't read any text of proposed bills, they all follow the same format -- bunch of jargon and strict regulations designed to curtail Bitcoin usage/growth. Consumer protection is the least of their concerns.

The ones in the UK were around to enforce kyc and anti money laundering (on paper - they're probably not practically able to do that anyway).

And the issue with your statement is that there aren't distinctions between individuals and businesses in a lot of European countries like there are in a lot of other places in the world (like the US). Most of the economy is diversified, decentralised and already hard to regulate.

Quote from: gweb1996 on July 02, 2022, 12:02:41 AM

Protect "investors" from what ? Do they expect that bitcoin will generate "value" ,apples,milk,honey ? What do "investors" expect bitcoin to do ? "investors" even read the btc paper: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf ? Bitcoin is an experimental payment system that is based on trust...with bitcoin you move cash from point A to point B , that's it , nothing else. Pretty much speculators took over the bitcoin networks and turned bitcoin from a cryptocurrency into a ponzi scheme. And f..king govs encouraging morons to "invest" in crypto...the world is crazy.

Smart people transfer money via bitcoin,morons invest(speculate) on it. It's f..ucking crypto + currency not crypto + stocks ...

Yeah, smart people came here long ago and they're not the ones we need to protect - they understand the space, know what they're doing and know the technology.

Most stocks are investments in if they can acquire a company innovating in their space before it gets too big or if you can find thst company that's innovating.

gweb1996

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Quote from: Doan9269 on July 02, 2022, 10:47:21 AM

Quote from: gweb1996 on July 01, 2022, 10:22:44 PM

Crypto was supposed to be a decentralized means of payment, to escape banks and governments regulation, now it seems governments are trying to take control of crypto and the internet.

i consider this an empty threat as long as the crypto network remain decentralized, how can they create a manipulation over it, to hinders or control the system is a big threat on government alone, CBDC could not make any difference, regulations made could not as well put them in control of it, had it been they can do anything about it, that would have been long ago dealt with, the worst china could do is to only ban it's citizens from using it, but how effective is that when there's p2p?.

They can simply force shops or people not to use it. Tomorrow they give law -> If you use crypto and if your caught 30 years in prison -> That's how they did it,that's how they always do it... look at abortion law in USA

Doan9269

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Quote from: gweb1996 on July 01, 2022, 10:22:44 PM

Crypto was supposed to be a decentralized means of payment, to escape banks and governments regulation, now it seems governments are trying to take control of crypto and the internet.

i consider this an empty threat as long as the crypto network remain decentralized, how can they create a manipulation over it, to hinders or control the system is a big threat on government alone, CBDC could not make any difference, regulations made could not as well put them in control of it, had it been they can do anything about it, that would have been long ago dealt with, the worst china could do is to only ban it's citizens from using it, but how effective is that when there's p2p?.

gweb1996

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Quote from: Reid on July 02, 2022, 09:49:50 AM

I understand where this is going and I couldn't agree more.
The big question. What can we do about it? First, it's their citizen that must wake up. If they (high percentage of people) are in agreement with what their government is planning then who are we to reject it.
You could stop using it if you think there's something fishy on what is about to happen or just abide by the rules.
They want to see you, whatever or whenever you do it. No more privacy. The face they are using is "money laundering".

In the Netherlands they have this ---> https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna13068060 , I spit in the Dutch people face for allowing such party, organization to exist.

Let me tell you exactly how they are money laundering and it's not via crypto,that would be stupid.

Step 1: Person A sets up a simple clothing shop company ( company x )
Step 2: Person B becomes a shareholder in company x with person A
Step 3: Person B gives money to his people to buy clothing from company x
Step 4: His people buy clothing and the shop is mega profitable even if it does not sell anything of use and most of the time it has 1-2 clients.
Step 5: When it's time to collect dividends , person B gets clean money. He was a great investor,he made a great "business decision" .

That is why we see so many shops in malls, center of the city with zero clients in them ,that pay big rent or buys the building with very few or zero clients. Always wondered how this shops survive that's how I know this,took me a while to figure it out.

Other ways they do it is via foundations, associations and auction housing ( they buy junk paintings etc ) ...

If people study business ,they will understand this also...

Reid

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I understand where this is going and I couldn't agree more.
The big question. What can we do about it? First, it's their citizen that must wake up. If they (high percentage of people) are in agreement with what their government is planning then who are we to reject it.
You could stop using it if you think there's something fishy on what is about to happen or just abide by the rules.
They want to see you, whatever or whenever you do it. No more privacy. The face they are using is "money laundering".

gweb1996

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Quote from: Poker Player on July 02, 2022, 09:17:03 AM

Quote from: gweb1996 on July 01, 2022, 10:22:44 PM

Crypto was supposed to be a decentralized means of payment, to escape banks and governments regulation, now it seems governments are trying to take control of crypto and the internet.

And you thought governments were going to let Bitcoin get away? Governments had two options, to ban Bitcoin, which is useless, or to regulate it and try to control it, which is what they are doing.

Quote from: gweb1996 on July 01, 2022, 10:22:44 PM

"Cryptocurrency companies will need a licence and customer safeguards to issue and sell digital tokens in the European Union under groundbreaking new rules agreed by the bloc to tame a volatile “Wild West” market."

That's nothing. Legislation on the way from the European Union, of which a draft has already been approved, will implement KYC for all crypto transactions, of any amount:

Goodbye, privacy, goodbye, it was nice while it lasted.

In this line, some crypto ATMs in Europe that previously did not ask for KYC below certain limits, have come to require KYC for any transaction.

And now pension fund managers will bet your pension savings on crypto, or banks that hold your savings will put some of your money on crypto , do to fact govs regulated "crypto" . Yep govs are now encouraging people to bet on "bottle caps and nuke cola bottle caps" ,like in Fallout game. The world is gone crazy ...same with cash ...in ancient times you would get silver,gold,copper,iron etc for your work ,now they give you a piece of paper,plastic or a virtual number that suppose to have value do to fact some "gov" that will not exist in a few years backs it and forces you to use it. Yep the world is crazy ,no matter what they tell me ! It's time we switch back to good old fashion gold ,silver,steel and copper as payment.

PrivacyG

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A ton of bad news are coming out lately and it only makes me think more and more that they have been waiting for years for another bear market so they could spit out bad news everywhere around. Kind of a big coincidence how all of a sudden everything happening in the Crypto world is FUD focused.

Anyone with an open mind and two brain cells knew they are not going to love Bitcoin but they are not going to ban it either. Instead, they are placing 'layer two' control that are laws limiting our freedoms of using Cryptocurrencies. Nobody stops you from using Bitcoin anywhere in the world or creating a new token, except the law that might punish you for doing so.

What is wrong with the world is exactly what you said yourself. Everyone got so comfortable and lazy they prefer to be told what to think, say and believe. Everyone seems to trust their own government and authorities and believe whatever they are fed through the feeding tube. Sounds and seems insane but it is the world we are living in.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

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Quote from: gweb1996 on July 01, 2022, 10:22:44 PM

Crypto was supposed to be a decentralized means of payment, to escape banks and governments regulation, now it seems governments are trying to take control of crypto and the internet.

And you thought governments were going to let Bitcoin get away? Governments had two options, to ban Bitcoin, which is useless, or to regulate it and try to control it, which is what they are doing.

Quote from: gweb1996 on July 01, 2022, 10:22:44 PM

"Cryptocurrency companies will need a licence and customer safeguards to issue and sell digital tokens in the European Union under groundbreaking new rules agreed by the bloc to tame a volatile “Wild West” market."

That's nothing. Legislation on the way from the European Union, of which a draft has already been approved, will implement KYC for all crypto transactions, of any amount:

Goodbye, privacy, goodbye, it was nice while it lasted.

In this line, some crypto ATMs in Europe that previously did not ask for KYC below certain limits, have come to require KYC for any transaction.

gweb1996

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Quote from: Bitstar_coin on July 02, 2022, 01:55:26 AM

May I know what happened in the 90's internet that is so different from now? I can't seem to recall.

Here is an example for google :
keyword: fish canning aluminum sheet 0.15mm suppliers in Europe --> what i want, is to find suppliers for fish canning aluminum sheet 0.15mm in Europe ... google used to give you correct results, now it shows you all sort of "ads" and "info" that is irrelevant to your search...google used to be precise, now it's not...

Facebook,twitter ---> you type some political text to public ,bam next second you get ban ...you didn't follow "community" rules .... the fu..cking internet is now run by govs i tell you , yeah there is the dark net but that is for weirdos ...

TheNineClub

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Government control is nothing new, in fact it's in the very nature of governments and how they are structured. I do agree with you that the curent path crypto is going on and that a step back is needed to preserve the integrity of crypto. But to many people just like to look at their investment going up and with that comes the need for more regulations.

ven7net

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I think the appropriate answer to your question would be that our world is changing right now. And to be more precise, the current system is falling apart, which means that everyone now wants to snatch a piece of influence for themselves. This is very clearly seen in the example of different markets, for example, the cryptocurrency market. The EC, represented by certain countries, also understand this and probably also one of them is trying to keep their own or take away someone else's. As for us, we don’t really have a choice, but I know for sure that this time needs to be experienced or even survived. It is difficult to say what will happen in the end, but I know for sure that it will not be like before and it is likely that the world will be divided into zones of influence and each such zone will have its own rules of the game.

asriloni

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Quote from: gweb1996 on July 02, 2022, 12:02:41 AM

Protect "investors" from what ? Do they expect that bitcoin will generate "value" ,apples,milk,honey ? What do "investors" expect bitcoin to do ? "investors" even read the btc paper: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf ? Bitcoin is an experimental payment system that is based on trust...with bitcoin you move cash from point A to point B , that's it , nothing else. Pretty much speculators took over the bitcoin networks and turned bitcoin from a cryptocurrency into a ponzi scheme. And f..king govs encouraging morons to "invest" in crypto...the world is crazy.

You must understand if the whole of crypto market is not just bitcoin. The luna, celcius and 3ac cases have been pushing them to give regulations to the crypto. The inflation that happened on the total crypto exist in the market need to be controlled. Bitcoin may not become the main concern but altcoin does.

Quote from: gweb1996 on July 02, 2022, 12:02:41 AM

Smart people transfer money via bitcoin,morons invest(speculate) on it. It's f..ucking crypto + currency not crypto + stocks ...

Are you calling those microstrategy, tesla, and any other companies or governments were trying to speculate on bitcoin were fucking moron as well? Cheesy

btc_angela

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Quote from: gweb1996 on July 02, 2022, 12:02:41 AM

Quote from: jackg on July 01, 2022, 11:37:03 PM

I'm not exactly sure what they're looking at with the "wild west market" but they're probably looking to protect investors (and this is hopefully what the bill is being passed for). Tighter regulation was always going to be coming and it'll be interesting to see if plans like this are actually implemented well enough to reduce scams (or if they're just a hassle for exchanges and traders alike).

I'm also assuming they're just copying the UK's regulations on this which already have licenses for exchanges.

Protect "investors" from what ? Do they expect that bitcoin will generate "value" ,apples,milk,honey ? What do "investors" expect bitcoin to do ? "investors" even read the btc paper: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf ? Bitcoin is an experimental payment system that is based on trust...with bitcoin you move cash from point A to point B , that's it , nothing else. Pretty much speculators took over the bitcoin networks and turned bitcoin from a cryptocurrency into a ponzi scheme. And f..king govs encouraging morons to "invest" in crypto...the world is crazy.

Smart people transfer money via bitcoin,morons invest(speculate) on it. It's f..ucking crypto + currency not crypto + stocks ...

I guess it is still the government mandate's to protect their consumer? Majority of them could be moron as you have describe it, but that is where the government enters the picture. It can't be a 'wild west' out there. Sooner or later the sheriff will have to established himself and uphold the law.

And crypto is evolving, yes it is a experimental payment system but it has evolved from them. it has value, been traded, we have exchanges, Mt. Gox debacle, manipulation etc.

Topic: What the f..ck is wrong with the world,EU and crypto ? (Read 197 times)