What to do with whales? - page 5. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Smartvirus

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Quote from: romero121 on October 12, 2021, 10:47:13 AM

Though 40% of the bitcoins are with 1000 individuals the market hasn't gone centralized.

Very news of you to point that at with first glance. Let's be guided before the wrong impression starts spreading around. Bitcoin has got zero centralization to it. Yeah, whales do have some certain influence on the market with the sentiments they provide but, its largely dependent on the perception of petty traders as well. They pull the string by passing an info on social media or using any means avial to them and the public plays along to make it happen. Should the public not play along, your most likely to have a fairly stable and consolidating market.

40% of bitcoin to have been owned by a set of 1000 individuals presumably whales doesn't mean they pull there resources together or something. It's nothingbof that nature and there is no centralization to bitcoin.

DdmrDdmr

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There are lies, damned lies and statistics. MTwain

This is from early 2021:
https://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-whales-the-key-facts-figures-you-need-to-know-2021-1

If fact, the same was said in 2017:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-08/the-bitcoin-whales-1-000-people-who-own-40-percent-of-the-market

I’m not sure where the original source from the data comes from, not what it is backed by (nor why it hasn’t changed after four years).

The bitcoin rich list point to 2.151 addresses holding 41,83% of BTCs:
https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html

Since we know that amongst the top richest addresses there are massive Exchange addresses, and that the percentage shown in those articles is nearly the same as the 41,83% I mentioned above, the articles (or their source) may have taken into their calculus the addresses of Exchanges, which would be incorrect.

Regardless, large whales surely have capacity to move things at their will, especially if they can find a fundamental that acts as a catalyst to boost their efforts. Certainly not ideal, and all you can do is buy some of them and hope that many do. The likeliness nevertheless is that weak hands will keep on caving-in into their strategy …

fiulpro

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Quote from: MNbag on October 12, 2021, 10:37:41 AM

40% of all Bitcoins are owned by just 1000 individuals.

This gives them a disproportionate amount of control over the market as they are able to dump them at anytime.

This is not to mention the high proportion of bitcoins held by miners and exchanges, who may have perverse incentives to ensure that as many people buy up bitcoin as possible and hold it for long enough for the price to rise.

Is there any way to deal with the high degree of centralisation that Bitcoin has?

Well some of them are owned by people like : Mr. Satoshi Nakamoto who I do believe won't ever sell his coins since it's like the stability is based on the long term holders, plus the one's who actually care about bitcoins are actually an asset for us..

Rest some of them are lost coins as well, I remember loosing my wallet in like 2012 or something, even if it didn't have much but this is more common that we actually think and back in those days people did use websites, did free spins, did advertising and earned a lot as well, but the value was not that much and most of them have no idea where the coins are right now..

Other than that I do think we should be scared hands down for the people who are left and not in that category, all we can do is make laws ( but that can push bitcoins to centralization) and at the same time implement them making sure we are not risking centralization.

noorman0

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Quote from: MNbag on October 12, 2021, 10:37:41 AM

40% of all Bitcoins are owned by just 1000 individuals.

This gives them a disproportionate amount of control over the market as they are able to dump them at anytime.

This is not to mention the high proportion of bitcoins held by miners and exchanges, who may have perverse incentives to ensure that as many people buy up bitcoin as possible and hold it for long enough for the price to rise.

Is there any way to deal with the high degree of centralisation that Bitcoin has?

- I'm not sure that whales prefer to dump away all their coins at once and do it on the spot market which has to go through a few complicated administrative requests.
- Since altcoins have become a trend, many whales have expanded their wealth and made bitcoin a hedge. So, a large number of bitcoins are simply circulating between them.

Saying 40% based on the amount of btc stored in the top 1000 addresses I think it's not close to accuracy. There are some whales are also more convenient to store btc separately to reduce the level of risk. Even I doubt that the number of whales is much more than a thousand.

michellee

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You do not have to do anything with the whales. They will not easily drop their bitcoin to the market because they may move from a small amount and use it to increase their bitcoin amount. When those people believe in bitcoin and hold on tight their bitcoin because it is precious, they will not play with it. Maybe they only watch the price moves without doing anything. Maybe they may not know who the other whales are because they can only see the wallet address without knowing who is behind that.

BlackHatCoiner

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This is a very interesting matter to discuss.

Well, here's the deal. As long as bitcoin exists, such whales are always going to exist. If an individual is decided to keep those bitcoins, no one can make them dump them. I'll try to compare these numbers you've written (that I'm not sure where you found them) with gold.

Gold is an asset that it's owned by governments. The very much majority of gold is being kept as reserve and the minority of it is used in our everyday lives. So, I'm speculating that if bitcoin is meant to have a similar fate to gold, then we'll most likely live highly hierarchical times where few individuals control a big part of the economy.

My two sats.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: MNbag on October 12, 2021, 10:37:41 AM

40% of all Bitcoins are owned by just 1000 individuals.
[...]
Is there any way to deal with the high degree of centralisation that Bitcoin has?

1. When saying bitcoin centralization, usually people refer to centralization of the network/nodes. And it's not the case.

2. I won't say that you're wrong or right, but without a proper source, that 40% and 1000 are basically worthless numbers.
However, like with anything valuable, it's obvious that the wealthier people will afford the risks to invest into bitcoin and will afford to buy much more than you or me. And I don't think that anything could be done about them.
But will they dump that easy? I don't know, I wouldn't be so sure. While some may hire companies to do market speculations on their behalf, others will most probably just put the coins safely and that's all.
So the number of whales actively trading should be rather small.

romero121

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Though 40% of the bitcoins are with 1000 individuals the market hasn't gone centralized.

The market is speculative, and this has made 40% of the individual manipulate the market. However the market manipulation is reactive based on the small scale holders. Earlier easily people used to get panic whenever there is a large volume of bitcoin moved between wallets. Now this is common and people aren't reactive, so that 40% of the individuals weren't able to have control beyond certain limit.

MNbag

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40% of all Bitcoins are owned by just 1000 individuals.

This gives them a disproportionate amount of control over the market as they are able to dump them at anytime.

This is not to mention the high proportion of bitcoins held by miners and exchanges, who may have perverse incentives to ensure that as many people buy up bitcoin as possible and hold it for long enough for the price to rise.

Is there any way to deal with the high degree of centralisation that Bitcoin has?

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