What will a mixer do under the mentioned situation? - page 2.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: Stedsm on April 28, 2023, 04:00:51 PM

1. Do mixers know where they're getting a deposit from?
2. If yes, will they co-operate here with the officials and let them know about the deposit?
3. If they do, how will they stop the scammer from moving his funds out of their mixer?

Since the mixers are operating in the gray area - let's be honest, at least in theory they protect privacy of both honest users and possibly money launderers too - they may simply not care where the money comes from. Of course, this is probably the official reason some mixers are targeted by law enforcement too (and it's better to honestly say "I didn't care, so I didn't know").

On the other hand, a mixer is just a private business as any. The mixer owner may take certain steps without announcing that (from locking and returning the stolen funds to keeping track of the transactions), but, since such things can hurt the image of a mixer, we will never know a mixer's real stance on that.

So I think that you're expecting too much.

Pmalek

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Any mixer that cooperates and listens to government demands shouldn't be trusted. Today the reasons could be that the money is stolen or hacked. Tomorrow, it could be because the owner is black, white, Jewish, Muslim, in the opposite party, anti government, too liberal, fascist, pro gay, young, old, American, Russian, Iranian... No censorship at all. A little bit of censorship opens the door to keep raising that bar in the future little by little.

Quote from: JeromeTash on April 28, 2023, 04:17:43 PM

Quote

1. Do mixers know where they're getting a deposit from?

They don't need to, except possibly with the controversial wasabi wallet. I understand they can block certain inputs from "blacklisted sources.

Wasabi's coordinator zkSNACKs works with an unnamed blockchain analysis company to surveil and identity UTXOs they consider "unwanted", "dangerous" or simply "tainted" in their own definition of those words. If the company tags certain UTXOs as such, they will be banned from coinjoining.

Quote from: Stedsm on April 28, 2023, 04:22:15 PM

PS. I'm looking for mixing services to come to this thread and respond so that my confusion regarding the same gets cleared. I mean, if they're interested to reply here...

In that case, I would make them aware of the existence of this thread. PM the forum representatives you would like to hear from. But remember, it's all about image. None of them will tell you they will cooperate with any government investigation. What would really happen is something only they know, and it's not for the public.

Cuenta Alternativa

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Quote from: JeromeTash on April 28, 2023, 04:17:43 PM

I think the fact that almost all the mixers around are not registered financial entities or under any regulatory board, they are not answerable to any authority except maybe their customers.

This is not the case. If you operate in the USA or any EU country, or any other, you are subject to the laws and authorities of those countries. It is another thing if those authorities try to send you a request and all they find is an email. But what you say is like saying that an illegal immigrant is not going to answer to the authorities of the country where he is because he is not from there.

Furthermore, little by little, as regulations advance, mixers will be required to have a licence, which will make them lose much of their meaning, or they will be declared illegal, so they will not be in the legal limbo they are in now, and for example, advertising them here will be illegal advertising, which will not be allowed. But hopefully that's still a few years away.

So, with respect to the OP's point, mixers can either cooperate, potentially losing customers (albeit for the right ethical reason), or not cooperate and potentially end up as a Chip Mixer.

Yamane_Keto

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The cooperation mechanism depends on the type of blender and how much information the government can gather about that blender and pressure them.

So far, I have not heard of a decentralized mixer, where there is no single central authority that controls the mixing, and therefore most of the mixers that are currently operating can be stopped if the owner of the mixer is known, and do not forget that some mixers are run by some agents to collect data.

Mixers are a way to enhance the privacy of an ordinary user, but when it comes to hacking multimillion-dollar, it is not easy to “launder that money.” Even if he succeeds in breaking the link between him and the crime, suddenly having $ 300 million or withdrawing that amount to your bank account is enough to raise suspicion.

Hacker attacks end either by negotiating with the authorities or arrest/kill, or they are sponsored by a state that supports this activity.

LeGaulois

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When the FBI contacts you, believe me, you have suddently something more important to do than cooperating with their request Cheesy

Especially when you operate a mixer.

Also, scammers are not so dumb. They can smell the smoke before the fire

PX-Z

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Authorities doesn't even care when an exchange is hacked or mandate every exchange to block the address track the hackers' address once it deposit to an specific exchange. Exchanges do it by themselves for the community and at least help the victims to bring the money back to hacked exchange.

How much more to mixers where they are considered as "illegal" by the authorities, as if mixers will respond as well. Also i dont even think mixers follow the requests of exchange to block the deposit from hacked address because it will contradict the sole purpose of owning a mixer business.

Stedsm

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Quote from: JeromeTash on April 28, 2023, 04:17:43 PM

So how do Authorities go about it?

Like "Hey Yomix, please do not mix coins coming from this address, if you refuse to comply, we know where you are and we shall arrest you" Cheesy

--snip--

Lol, not like that obviously Grin

No mixer will ever respond to authorities because even they may get traced down and these authorities don't like mixers at all if I'm not wrong, and especially they won't respond if the authorities send a message in the way you described. Roll Eyes

Just in case, they try to get the specific mixer's email address for support or let's say, PM them here on Bitcointalk, will they ever address the authority's concerns about a hacker's address and that he may deposit to their mixer? And even ask the mixer to block that very address?

Then even if the hacker moves coins to various sources, it'll still be known because they're not getting mixed.

PS. I'm looking for mixing services to come to this thread and respond so that my confusion regarding the same gets cleared. I mean, if they're interested to reply here...

JeromeTash

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Quote from: Stedsm on April 28, 2023, 04:00:51 PM

For a second, just think that the scammer keeps the coins in his wallet and doesn't move them for some time, however FBI and other major authorities are aware of this hack and they give orders to mixers that if a specific address is provided to the mixers (if they know exactly on which address the hacker has kept the coins), and they ask them to immediately report them about the same,

So how do Authorities go about it?

Like "Hey Yomix, please do not mix coins coming from this address, if you refuse to comply, we know where you are and we shall arrest you" Cheesy

I think the fact that almost all the mixers around are not registered financial entities or under any regulatory board, they are not answerable to any authority except maybe their customers.

The only choice authorities are left with is to investigate and crack them down.

Quote

1. Do mixers know where they're getting a deposit from?

They don't need to, except possibly with the controversial wasabi wallet. I understand they can block certain inputs from "blacklisted sources.

Quote

2. If yes, will they co-operate here with the officials and let them know about the deposit?

This is what exchanges do, highly unlikely for mixers to do such a thing if you read their privacy and no log polices. How do you promise people privacy but then reveal private customer information to the Government. Then that's not a mixer.

Stedsm

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We all know about hacks, scams, password leaks and all the shit that's happening in the crypto world and we also see lots of scammers using mixers to eradicate the possibility of them being caught at all (though there are traces, but using mixer saves these scammers at the least, not intentionally).

Now, let's say that a hack happened some day at some exchange for about $300 million (or even $3 million, just e.g.), and the exchange immediately opens up about the hack. For a second, just think that the scammer keeps the coins in his wallet and doesn't move them for some time, however FBI and other major authorities are aware of this hack and they give orders to mixers that if a specific address is provided to the mixers (if they know exactly on which address the hacker has kept the coins), and they ask them to immediately report them about the same, then let me ask some questions:

1. Do mixers know where they're getting a deposit from?
2. If yes, will they co-operate here with the officials and let them know about the deposit?
3. If they do, how will they stop the scammer from moving his funds out of their mixer?

Topic: What will a mixer do under the mentioned situation? - page 2. (Read 313 times)